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Post by livinganewlife on Oct 6, 2008 9:23:34 GMT -5
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Post by Rachel2 on Oct 6, 2008 9:38:52 GMT -5
This is so sad....
Pearson said he chose All Souls because the church is inclusive, accepting gays, blacks and people of all religious persuasions, including atheists and agnostics.
How does and atheists go to heaven...they don't even believe in God? This is why inclusion makes no sense. I still can't help but wonder how in the world Carlton let the devil trick him into believing this mess.
I know this has probably been discussed and debated on this forum in deep detail, so I am not trying to revive or start a new discussion.
Just thinking out loud.
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Post by kitty on Oct 6, 2008 10:35:03 GMT -5
I'm just surprised that it took as long as it did.
Cathie
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Post by livinganewlife on Oct 6, 2008 10:35:12 GMT -5
This is so sad.... Pearson said he chose All Souls because the church is inclusive, accepting gays, blacks and people of all religious persuasions, including atheists and agnostics. How does and atheists go to heaven...they don't even believe in God? This is why inclusion makes no sense. I still can't help but wonder how in the world Carlton let the devil trick him into believing this mess. I know this has probably been discussed and debated on this forum in deep detail, so I am not trying to revive or start a new discussion. Just thinking out loud. Rachel, I believe we have discussed Carlton's doctrine "Once Saved Always Saved" but I really don't believe we have discussed in detail "Inclusion"..... But I thought this was interesting! |
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Post by keita on Oct 6, 2008 13:32:21 GMT -5
...I still can't help but wonder how in the world Carlton let the devil trick him into believing this mess... Sis Rachel, You and a whole lot of folks have wondered that and CP has addressed that question many times. Here are 2 excerpts from his many interviews: ER: What is the Gospel of Inclusion? CP The Gospel of Inclusion is that God was in Christ reconciling the world...not counting men's sins against them. The whole comos, the whole cosmetic makeup of the human race, has been redeemed through Christ. They don't know. It's our jobs as Christian evangelists to give them that wonderful news that their sins are forgiven. ER: Did it all happen at the cross? CP: It all happened at the cross, and our job has been as Christians to tell the people that your sins have been forgiven, and you've been redeemed by the blood of Christ, and you are on your way to heaven. So stop acting out hell and creating it for others. You are on your way to an eternal place with Christ because Christ paid for your sins, atoned for your sins, bought and brought you back to God! ER: Where and how did you get this revelation? CP: It actually came to me when I was putting some of my loved ones in hell for years. My grandparents had been there for years. I am from a four-generation classical Pentecostal background where we sent just about everybody, including Baptists, to hell or anybody who is not Pentecostal. And I didn't figure that my love for them would be any greater than God's. And so I couldn't reconcile putting them in a customized torture chamber...called hell. ER: Do we need to repent? CP: No. The word, “repent” means to rethink. It doesn't mean to say I'm sorry. I am preaching repentance, but I am asking Christians and everybody to rethink what we believe and why we believe it. Let's reconsider, change the thinking about everything. When we do that...we do feel certain remorse for our arrogance, our ignorance and our sins. But we don't dismiss ourselves and everybody else to this horrible inferno, which is basically historical superstition. Jesus never even used the word “hell.” He used the word “Gehinnom,” which means Valley of Henna. We have been preaching hell, and we're so devoted to hell and the devil until we could be worshipping him. That whole concept has crippled the planet and justified hatred, violence, unforgiveness and intolerance. The fundamentalists are war-mongers. They may not be whoremongers, but they are war-mongers, based on an image of a God who's hateful. God judges with love, not with punitive hatred. ER: Are you the only one preaching this message? CP: Oh no-oh my goodness. The first 500 years of Christian history was the general consensus of the people. All of the church followers embraced it, and many of the apostles did. But when the church went from the East to the West, it began to change. I respect the Holy Roman Empire, but they began to shift the emphasis away from universalism to doctrinal exclusionism. When you say Roman Catholic, you mean Vatican. When you say Catholic, that means universal expression. Now there are all kinds of people embracing it. There are about 40 million New Thought Christians in America who embrace what I teach…I didn't know of them of course. I wouldn't listen to them. I would send them straight to hell. I tried to cast demons out of these Unitarians and Universalists for years, and now I'm one of them. But I believe in the finished work of the cross. Jesus said, “It is finished.” Redemption is complete. People don't know it, and many Christians don't believe it. So, I had to say ‘Wait folks, you quote Him as saying 'It is finished.' He didn't just say, ‘I'm finished dying.’ He said, ‘I'm finished redeeming.’ So go tell them that they are redeemed. Go tell them that God loves them and redeemed them. It's almost too good to be true. Pearson: I saw these African people—mostly women and children walking slowly back trying to come home. There was no light or life in their eyes. It was a horrible thing for me to see. Swollen bellies and skeletal bodies, emaciated… and then the babies looking at the mom and the mama looking out in space. It was sad. And I’m sitting there with my little fat-cheeked baby and my plateful of food, watching my big screen TV. A man of God, a preacher of the Gospel, an Evangelist, and I’m looking at those people assuming that they’re probably Muslim and going to Hell. “’Cause God wouldn’t do that to Christians,” I’m thinking… Morrison: They deserve hell. Pearson: They deserved hell. And I said, “God I don’t know how you’re gonna call yourself a loving God and allow those people to suffer so much and then just suck them into hell.” And I believe it was the Spirit of God in me saying, “Is that what you think we’re doing?” Morrison: You heard this voice. Pearson: Yes, sir. And I said, “That’s what I’ve been taught.” “God, I can’t I can’t save the whole world.” And that’s when I heard that voice say, “Precisely. That’s what we did. And if you’d tell them that they are redeemed, you wouldn’t create those kinds of problems. Can’t you see they’re already in Hell?” I immediately started thinking about my grandparents. “Well, maybe they’re not in Hell. Maybe if they’re already saved, if the cross and Christ and all that stuff really happened and is really spiritual—which I believe it is—then—if He came to save the world, then the world is saved unless he’s a failure.” Morrison: You mean Hitler’s in heaven? Pearson: You think Hitler’s more powerful than the blood of Jesus? I mean, I got a hell to put a lot of people in. I’d sent Hitler and every slave trader straight to hell and a few deacons in my church if you wanna know the truth—I’d send people to hell, but I’m not God. He’s the atoning sacrifice for our sins and not ours only, but the sins of the whole world... I know this has probably been discussed and debated on this forum in deep detail, so I am not trying to revive or start a new discussion.
Just thinking out loud. Rachel, I believe we have discussed Carlton's doctrine "Once Saved Always Saved" but I really don't believe we have discussed in detail "Inclusion"..... For anyone who's interested, here's a link to our previous discussion: HERESY IN THE CATHEDRAL[/color][/url] (Imho, it is still one of our best "controversial" topics...heated AND fruitful.  ) And there's more HERE |
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Post by Nikkol on Feb 8, 2010 8:14:42 GMT -5
He just recently on the Lexi show....it was very interesting....and some things he said made sense. Not sure if it's available online -- nothing on youtube as of yet ...if you saw it....what did you think?
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Post by anointedteacher on Feb 8, 2010 10:03:12 GMT -5
How about giving us some details of what he talk about? If it not online, how can we reponse to your post.
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Post by giantsdodie on Feb 8, 2010 11:20:57 GMT -5
One thing I know is that Carlton said he was not allowed to speak when he was brought before the Council of Bishops and that is not correct because my Bishop was there and he was allowed to speak.
Carlton is deceived.
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Post by krazeeboi on Feb 8, 2010 11:29:58 GMT -5
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Post by giantsdodie on Feb 8, 2010 11:34:16 GMT -5
wow that was quick.
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Post by Nikkol on Feb 8, 2010 13:01:26 GMT -5
He had a one on one with Lexi....just watched it this weekend. I think that in that video you posted (KRAZEE) the way that Jamal Bryant responded was somewhat disrespectful....even if from the natural perspective of how one should address someone who's probably just about old enough to be your dad....
I just wondered if anyone else had seen it.
I understand the deception....at the same time, he made some very good points which some of us wouldn't understand because we didn't know the behind the scenes things.
One thing that he said was that he doesn't try to "convert" but to "convince" ppl of the love of Jesus. Hope it's on youtube soon so I can put it up since i don't think many have seen it.
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Post by giantsdodie on Feb 8, 2010 14:24:39 GMT -5
He had a one on one with Lexi....just watched it this weekend. I think that in that video you posted (KRAZEE) the way that Jamal Bryant responded was somewhat disrespectful....even if from the natural perspective of how one should address someone who's probably just about old enough to be your dad.... I just wondered if anyone else had seen it. I understand the deception....at the same time, he made some very good points which some of us wouldn't understand because we didn't know the behind the scenes things. One thing that he said was that he doesn't try to "convert" but to "convince" ppl of the love of Jesus. Hope it's on youtube soon so I can put it up since i don't think many have seen it. Jamal Bryant was on point 100% and he was not disrespectful at all. He was accurate in his assessment and I applaud him for having the courage to speak the absolute truth (and I am no fan of Jamal Bryant at all). Carlton Pearson is totally and completely in error. We as Christians need to stop placating people when they are in error. I have seen several interviews with Carlton Pearson and I pray that he comes back to the Lord. However I know error when I see it. I know a victim mentality when I see it. And in all honesty it doesnt need to be on Youtube IMO. Enough is Enough already, there is nothing more that needs to be said about this very very sad story. You CANNOT lead people to Christ teaching a FALSE Gospel. The GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST is the power of GOD until salvation. A lot of people believe in the Love of GOD. The Word of GOD says those that LOVE ME keep MY commandments. Again lets understand what Carlton is teaching in a nutshell. Find in the bible a doctrine that teaches. 1) There is no hell 2) Everyone is going to heaven 3) It is not necessary for you to actually BELIEVE in Jesus as Lord OR Confess Him AS Lord to be saved 4) Even people who worship false God are SAVED ALREADY This plain and simple is called Universalim. Carlton Pearson calls it the gospel of inclusion. It is NOT biblical. Cannot be supported by the revelation of scripture. And this is what I mean by the revelation of scripture. It does NOT line up with what the bible teaches on salvation. It tries to pull a few scriptures out of context and MAKE a doctrine. But a Doctrinal teaching is based on the totality of a subject not the partiality of a subject. There should be no question that the doctrine is false. The docrtine has been declared heresy in that it teaches something OPPOSITE of the truth revealed in the scripture. Bishop TD Jakes went on record as denouncing it. Bishop Charles Blake has gone on record denouncing it. The Late Bishop G.E. Patterson of COGIC, the church that you came out of, went on record denouncing it. The Council of Bishops denounced it as heretical. Now I might be in the minority I have to denounce somone when the BIBLE which is the standard of truth denounced your doctrine, and the people of GOD by and large denounce your doctrine, and those in leadership in churches from all over the world denounce your doctrine and those that you consider your friend and mentors denounce your doctrine and last but not least your father in the Gospel Oral Roberts writes a TWELVE PAGE LETTER denouncing your doctrine and showing you biblically WHY it isnt God.... Not to mention you lose your church and have to leave the fellowship you were in and now have joined allegiance to the United Church of Christ a church KNOWN to promote universalim through many of its minister as well as a gay and lesbian agenda. BUT YET we in the body of Christ keep giving these people and MORE importantly the Spirit of Error liscence to spout its venom instead of doing what THE BIBLE tells us to do. Galatians 1 6 I am surprised and astonished that you are so quickly [d]turning renegade and deserting Him Who invited and called you by the grace (unmerited favor) of Christ (the Messiah) [and that you are transferring your allegiance] to a different [even an opposition] gospel. 7 Not that there is [or could be] any other [genuine Gospel], but there are [obviously] some who are troubling and disturbing and bewildering you [with a different kind of teaching which they offer as a gospel] and want to pervert and distort the Gospel of Christ (the Messiah) [into something which it absolutely is not]. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)! 9 As we said before, so I now say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that which you received [from us], let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)! Nope what we do is constant give them the light of day to spew their venom. Enough is Enough already. Pray that he return to the Lord. |
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Post by Nikkol on Feb 8, 2010 15:47:23 GMT -5
He had a one on one with Lexi....just watched it this weekend. I think that in that video you posted (KRAZEE) the way that Jamal Bryant responded was somewhat disrespectful....even if from the natural perspective of how one should address someone who's probably just about old enough to be your dad.... I just wondered if anyone else had seen it. I understand the deception....at the same time, he made some very good points which some of us wouldn't understand because we didn't know the behind the scenes things. One thing that he said was that he doesn't try to "convert" but to "convince" ppl of the love of Jesus. Hope it's on youtube soon so I can put it up since i don't think many have seen it. Jamal Bryant was on point 100% and he was not disrespectful at all. He was accurate in his assessment and I applaud him for having the courage to speak the absolute truth (and I am no fan of Jamal Bryant at all). Carlton Pearson is totally and completely in error. We as Christians need to stop placating people when they are in error. I have seen several interviews with Carlton Pearson and I pray that he comes back to the Lord. However I know error when I see it. I know a victim mentality when I see it. And in all honesty it doesnt need to be on Youtube IMO. Enough is Enough already, there is nothing more that needs to be said about this very very sad story. You CANNOT lead people to Christ teaching a FALSE Gospel. The GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST is the power of GOD until salvation. A lot of people believe in the Love of GOD. The Word of GOD says those that LOVE ME keep MY commandments. Again lets understand what Carlton is teaching in a nutshell. Find in the bible a doctrine that teaches. 1) There is no hell 2) Everyone is going to heaven 3) It is not necessary for you to actually BELIEVE in Jesus as Lord OR Confess Him AS Lord to be saved 4) Even people who worship false God are SAVED ALREADY This plain and simple is called Universalim. Carlton Pearson calls it the gospel of inclusion. It is NOT biblical. Cannot be supported by the revelation of scripture. And this is what I mean by the revelation of scripture. It does NOT line up with what the bible teaches on salvation. It tries to pull a few scriptures out of context and MAKE a doctrine. But a Doctrinal teaching is based on the totality of a subject not the partiality of a subject. There should be no question that the doctrine is false. The docrtine has been declared heresy in that it teaches something OPPOSITE of the truth revealed in the scripture. Bishop TD Jakes went on record as denouncing it. Bishop Charles Blake has gone on record denouncing it. The Late Bishop G.E. Patterson of COGIC, the church that you came out of, went on record denouncing it. The Council of Bishops denounced it as heretical. Now I might be in the minority I have to denounce somone when the BIBLE which is the standard of truth denounced your doctrine, and the people of GOD by and large denounce your doctrine, and those in leadership in churches from all over the world denounce your doctrine and those that you consider your friend and mentors denounce your doctrine and last but not least your father in the Gospel Oral Roberts writes a TWELVE PAGE LETTER denouncing your doctrine and showing you biblically WHY it isnt God.... Not to mention you lose your church and have to leave the fellowship you were in and now have joined allegiance to the United Church of Christ a church KNOWN to promote universalim through many of its minister as well as a gay and lesbian agenda. BUT YET we in the body of Christ keep giving these people and MORE importantly the Spirit of Error liscence to spout its venom instead of doing what THE BIBLE tells us to do. Galatians 1 6 I am surprised and astonished that you are so quickly [d]turning renegade and deserting Him Who invited and called you by the grace (unmerited favor) of Christ (the Messiah) [and that you are transferring your allegiance] to a different [even an opposition] gospel. 7 Not that there is [or could be] any other [genuine Gospel], but there are [obviously] some who are troubling and disturbing and bewildering you [with a different kind of teaching which they offer as a gospel] and want to pervert and distort the Gospel of Christ (the Messiah) [into something which it absolutely is not]. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)! 9 As we said before, so I now say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that which you received [from us], let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)! Nope what we do is constant give them the light of day to spew their venom. Enough is Enough already. Pray that he return to the Lord. I think Jamal was disrespectful and gave a lot of "cliches"...even if he was trying to make a point and his points were "good", his approach was messy. If I remember correctly, not once did Carlton raise his voice and get loud but Jamal did. Actually, when I was listening to him (Pearson), I don't believe that your #3 is completely accurate of his belief. (but that's my personal opinion) I also said youtube because usually everything ends up there. I am not saying that he's right because there's no other way but by the name of Jesus. However, I think that most ppl have not actually read or listened to his whole discussion on the matter but took bits of it and put it together. (not saying that this is what you did). Having said that, I think that ppl should know that cliche's, etc are not what's going to "convert him back". He's been in church and knows the cliche's, etc. But one should show compassion (which the other men on that first panel did show)....THAT's the first step. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Feb 8, 2010 17:45:15 GMT -5
Maybe we are talking about two different interviews because I did not see him raise his voice or get loud at all in the interview I have seen. Nor did I see him use any cliches. In fact I think his point was exceptionally well thought out rational and poignant. In fact out of everyone that was on the panel it was the MOST cogent part of the discussion.
And for the record I have seen Carlton Pearson on programs specifically the State of the Black Church not only get loud, angry but downright demeaning and condescending to God's people, however I recognize that as the spirit that is influencing him amd oppressing him.
Let me assure you that in this case your personal opinion is most certainly wrong because I have seen several interviews and seen several articles where he has said EXACTLY this. He has literally said that the work of Jesus on the cross was so complete that it is not necessary that we actually ACKNOWLEDGE the work to RECEIVE the benefit. This is in DIRECT oppostition to the Word of GOD. It is ERROR plain and simple. This is what Carlton has said. He has taught that the Muslim will be in Heaven.. Yes He has taught that those that worship OTHER GODS will be in Heaven. He has taught that the homosexual WILL BE in heaven even thought the Bible says the EXACT opposite. Recognize that this is Universalism in a new form It was Error THEN and it is Error NOW.
I agree and unfortunately shows like Lexi exist because negroes LOVE drama. And church nergoes ESPECIALLY love church drama. Negroes flock to church drama like flies on stink. And it gets ratings.. which gets advertising dollars.
This mess isnt new.. Its been touted by Carlton Pearson for YEARS. The man was on nationaly TV several times exposuing HIS belief so we are not talking second hand hearsay accounts. The man went on TV and said he spoke to Bishop Jakes and Bishop Patternson and they agreed with some of what he said and those men of God IMMEDIATELY denounced his teaching as heretical.
His father in the Gospel wrote a TWELVE PAGE LETTER to Carlton Pearson. Bishop Charles Blake has also speken with him about this issue. So lets not act like Carlton is being misrepresented.
Now my ArchBishop sits on the College of Bishops. 300 Bishops WORLDWIDE have spoken with and tried to reason with Carlton about this issue SHOWING him where his doctrine is OFF and AGAINST The teaching of the Word of GOD.
And YET Carlton Pearson persists. Left his organization and joined one that OPENLY ordains OPENLY gay homosexuals. And then even THAT got shut down.
Let me just say this.. If you have a giant candy bar with some arsenic in it.. it will taste sweet.. bt it WILL kill you.
See here is the problem. You ASSUME he hasnt been shown compassion... Yet several prominent ministers people that are his peers and his friends have spoken with him, sat with him. prayed with him, pleaded with him, counselled him and YET he persists in promoting ERROR. He has become an ENEMY of the Cross.. That has to be recognized...
Christians are going to have to learn in this latter time its a WARZONE between the Kingdom of GOD and the devils kingdom. Thats part of the problem no one wants to stand up and say...
Brother.. I love you.. but you are OFF like a two lefts shoes on six toed feet. NO we want to coddle and cajole folks out of their error and out of their mess. We cannot convert ANYONE. The Holy Ghost is the one who convicts and converts.
See one thing I know. I have seen SEVERAL ministers go off CLOSE UP... I dont mean from a distance.. I mean UP CLOSE...
And I have seen GOD send them wave after wave after wave after wave of people to love them out of their mess. talk with them. plead with them, pray for them. I myself have interceded for MANY, fasting for weeks, praying late hours of the night and wee hours of the morning etc etc and GLAD to do so because there are souls involved...
But even GOD draws the line in the sand at some point and says.. OK ive tried wooing you.. pleading with you.. and this is usually done IN PRIVATE...
NOW its judgement time.. and usually what happens is GOD exposes your mess for everyone to see... then the stripping happens which is what is happening in his life now.
What we hope is that he turns BACK to his first love and what he has been taught which is the truth. We have to love the person. And love isnt always soft and cuddly. Sometimes love is in your face. Sometimes love is the courage to speak the truth regardless of the consequences.
Carlton Pearson is teaching a herectical doctrine. We arent talking about a little bo-bo here. We are talkingabout a doctrine that is against what THE LORD JESUS HIMSELF taught.
And personally I dont think Saints of God should be providing a platform for the spirit of error to go forth and vomit.
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Post by Nikkol on Feb 9, 2010 8:22:06 GMT -5
Just for the record, I am NOT nor ever will be a Universalist......Calvinist, yes; but not a Universalist.
1. Maybe we are talking about two different interviews.
2. I have seen things were this was said...however, I do think that it was "cut", meaning there wasn't much background information regarding what he was saying or why.
3. I'd agree that some things that he says are still true but of course with any rat poison, there's mostly good stuff and only a little bad.
4. The ordaining of openly gay ppl in ministry goes on all the time.
5. No, I didn't ASSUME that he hasn't.
6. It's true that we can't convert....for unless the spirit draws they will not be converted.
7. And I agree there's a time for "tough love" -- maybe the problem is that these things become so "popular" and on every station and on all the news stations.
All in all there's no disagreement that he has error in his doctrine.....but for me, just like we have differentbooks in discussing "How to witness to ppl of other religions", understanding where the error is and the surrounding arguments can be helpful in talking to someone who is a "Universalist" -- I know this firsthand because years ago, I was talking to a JW and they said something that I agreed with that I thought that they didn't agree with -- of course I was young then (not saying I'm old now....LOL).
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