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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Jun 1, 2009 11:46:18 GMT -5
Question: "What is the difference between dating and courting?" Answer: Dating and courtship are two methods of beginning relationships with the opposite sex. While there are non-Christians who date with the intention of having a series of intimate physical relationships, for the Christian this is not acceptable and should never be the reason for dating. Many Christians see dating as little more than friendship and maintain the friendship aspect of their dating until both people are ready to commit to each another as potential marriage partners. First and foremost, dating is a time when a Christian finds out if his or her potential marriage partner is also a believer in Christ. The Bible warns us that believers and unbelievers should not marry each other, because those living in the light (of Christ) and those living in the darkness cannot live in harmony (2 Corinthians 6:14-15). As stated before, during this time there should be little or no physical contact, as this is something that should wait until marriage (1 Corinthians 6:18-20). Courtship takes the position that the two people have no physical contact at all (no touching, no hand-holding, no kissing) until marriage. Many in a courtship relationship will not spend any time together unless family members, preferably parents, are present at all times. In addition, courting couples state up front that their intentions are to see if the other person is a suitable potential marriage partner. Courtship advocates claim that courtship allows for the two people to truly get to know each other in a more platonic setting without the pressures of physical intimacy or emotions clouding their view. There are problems inherent with both styles. For daters, spending time alone with a member of the opposite sex whom we find attractive can present temptations that can be very hard to resist. The Christian dating couple must have boundaries in place and be committed to not crossing them. If they find this hard to do, they must take steps to ensure that Christ will always be honored during their time together and that sin is never given a chance to take hold of their relationship. Just as with the courting couple, the parents of the dating couple should be involved in the relationship, getting to know their child’s companion and being a source of wise and discerning advice and guidance for both of them. Of course, the courtship style presents its own set of difficulties. While many courtship advocates see it as the only choice for finding a mate, others find it oppressive and overly controlling. In addition, it can be hard to find the “real” person behind the public face presented in front of the entire family. No one is the same in a group setting as he or she is one-on-one. If a couple is never alone together, they never have that one-on-one opportunity to relate and get to know one another in emotional and spiritual intimacy. In addition, some courtship situations have led to borderline “arranged marriages” by the parents and have resulted in resentment in one or both of the young people. It is important to remember that neither dating nor courtship is mandated in Scripture. In the end, the Christian character and spiritual maturity of the couple is far more important than the exact nature of how and when they spend time together. Scripturally speaking, the result of the process—godly Christian men and women marrying and raising families to the glory of God—is far more important than the method they use to achieve that result. "Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God" (1 Corinthians 10:31, NKJV). Finally, care must be taken to avoid the pitfall of believing one’s personal preference—dating or courting—is the “only way” and looking down upon those who make the opposite choice. As in all things, the unity of the body of Christ should be of utmost importance in our minds, regardless of personal choices others make pertaining to issues on which the Bible is silent. From God Questions Ministries www.gotquestions.org/difference-dating-courting.html |
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Post by Nikkol on Jun 2, 2009 10:33:32 GMT -5
In order to not hijack the other thread <<smile>> just something I wanted to point out:
There's a scripture in scripture (been looking for it and still can't find it yet) that says basically, "unless the Lord goes before us, we won't go". It reminds me of the song by Beverly Crawford "I won't go on unless I know you're there".
I think that the point we were trying to point out was the importance of not moving forward without the "ok" (whether it be by scripture, audible, etc.) It's somewhat like a child and his parent. Being dependent on the parent, it is important for the child to not just move (or not move) without the parent saying so. Even in our own lives, we can see how if we waited just a little longer, things in our lives would've been much different.
I see courtship as the period between engagement and marriage (being that there is no saying "this isn't gonna work" for if that can occur, that's not courtship).
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Post by kitty on Jun 2, 2009 11:40:13 GMT -5
Nikkol...
You do know that plenty of people have called off engagements right? (smile)
That's even when the date was set and invitations set out...
Kitty
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Post by Nikkol on Jun 2, 2009 12:03:21 GMT -5
Nikkol... You do know that plenty of people have called off engagements right? (smile) That's even when the date was set and invitations set out... Kitty LOL. But of course. However as a Christian being that our yes should be yes and no should be no, this ought not be. And in Jewish culture (as we see in the gospels) the only way to break of an engagement was via divorce. But if God has said that you should be together, there shouldn't be a calling off. And in a time when I think that we all should want to do that which is pleasing, esp knowing how time is winding up, why waste our time? Looking at my life, if I would've waited for my husband as he waited for me, a lot of the things that I had to go through, wouldn't have even been a thought.... |
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Post by giantsdodie on Jun 3, 2009 8:31:10 GMT -5
Nikkol... You do know that plenty of people have called off engagements right? (smile) That's even when the date was set and invitations set out... Kitty LOL. But of course. However as a Christian being that our yes should be yes and no should be no, this ought not be. And in Jewish culture (as we see in the gospels) the only way to break of an engagement was via divorce. But if God has said that you should be together, there shouldn't be a calling off. And in a time when I think that we all should want to do that which is pleasing, esp knowing how time is winding up, why waste our time? Looking at my life, if I would've waited for my husband as he waited for me, a lot of the things that I had to go through, wouldn't have even been a thought.... Nikkol is 100% correct. Engagement was not seen as something CASUAL that simply be broken off.. Engagement was so serious that it could ONLY be broken by a divorcement.. BEFORE one is married... But the problem as I see it is that 90% of us look at marriage selfishly. We only look at it from the perspective of what WE need and what WE want and what WE wll receive out of it which makes it very easy to get out because WE arent getting what WE want.. Yet we will quickly say that cliche'd response... Marriage is a Ministry.. well the word Minister means TO SERVE.. That means a marriage is a 365-24-7 service to SOMEONE ELSE.. First to GOD and then your spouse.. I tell people all the time. most people dont focus on the marriage. They really focus on the wedding ( especially women ).. But once the preacher says I now pronounce you.. the Wedding is OVER.. and the MARRIAGE has begun... Peoples marriages crash because the Word of God says without a vision people perish.. I ask people.. what is GOD's vision for your marriage.. What is HIS purpose in you being married. What is GOD trying to establish in the earth through this union... I hardly ever get answers to these questions... I honesty believe that most of us what someone to tell us we are pretty and to love them, so they wont be alone anymore, and of course there is the sex we can have because its legal... See its EASY to leave something you are not INVESTED in... |
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Jun 3, 2009 9:20:50 GMT -5
it's tight but it's right!!!!!
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Post by nina2 on Jun 3, 2009 10:33:26 GMT -5
I know that we are all familiar with Betrothal, but since we are going into dating and courting, and the stage of "engagement" as betrothal, it might be interesting to actually dig more into what it meant and, most of all, how those "traditions" with deep spiritual roots have translated into christianity but possibly lost their original meaning:
Kiddushin -- Betrothal
According to Torah law, marriage is a two-step process.
The first stage is called "kiddushin," and the second step is known as "nisu'in."
Kiddushin is commonly translated as betrothal, but actually renders the bride and groom full-fledged husband and wife.
After this point, if, God forbid, they decided to part ways, a "get" (Jewish divorce) would be required.
However, the bride and groom are not permitted to live together as husband and wife until the second stage, the nisu'in, is completed.
Kiddushin:
According to Torah law, there are three ways to betroth a woman:
a) A money transaction. The man gives to the woman money or any object of value.
b) A document. The man gives the woman a marriage document which states his intention to marry her.
c) Sexual intercourse with the intention that it consummates the marriage.
In ancient times, the two stages of marriage were done on separate occasions.
The rabbis forbade betrothing though intercourse, making it a punishable offense.
In order for the betrothal to take effect, the transaction must be witnessed by two kosher witnesses.
The common custom is to betroth by means of a money transaction, using the traditional wedding band to effect the kiddushin.
Aside for the kabbalistic reasons for this tradition,there is also a practical explanation -- a ring serves as a constant and highly visible reminder of the couple's wedding commitment.
Additionally, most possessions owned by husband or wife end up belonging to the "family" and are enjoyed by all members of the household.
Using a ring to transact the marriage assures that the item will belong exclusively to the wife.
Nisu'in:
The nisu'in is accomplished through "chupah" -- the husband uniting with the wife under one roof for the sake of marriage.
In ancient times, the two stages of marriage were done on separate occasions, often separated by a full year which the groom would devote to Torah study.
Both the kiddushin and the nisu'in were accompanied by celebratory feasts.
By the twelfth century this practice had ended, and it became customary to do both kiddushin and nisu'in, successively, beneath the chupah.
One of the reasons given for this change of custom is the poverty which prevailed in the Jewish communities. People simply couldn't afford the expense of the two celebrations.
The Souls of the Soulmates
The two-stage marriage is more than a technical nuance of Jewish law, it is expressive of the uniqueness of a Jewish marriage. Marriage is more than two people who choose to share their lives with each other, it is the fusion of two souls.
During the kiddushin stage the couple is married, with one minor caveat -- they cannot physically express their union.
So in the absence of any practical tangible connection, what binds the two? Their soulful connection.
Only after the connection of the souls has manifested itself during the kiddushin period, laying the foundation for a soulful marriage, can the couple proceed with the nisu'in, the physical aspect of their relationship.
If matrimony started with nisu'in, the physical relationship could permanently overshadow the spiritual connection.
If matrimony started with nisu'in, the physical relationship could permanently overshadow the spiritual connection, resulting in a marriage whose priorities and ideals are skewed.
God and Us
All we experience in this earthly realm is merely a reflection of a higher spiritual reality.
Marriage between man and woman follows the model of a marriage -- that between God, the groom, and Israel, His beloved bride. This wedding, too, consists of two stages:
Kiddushin:
God descended on Mount Sinai and gave us the Torah and its commandments.
He took His most precious and treasured possession, the Torah, and used it as a wedding band on His wedding day.
From that moment onwards, we are His and He is ours. Nothing can ever change that fact.
The union, however, had not yet been consummated. For that we need the...
Nisu'in:
The Jew who studies Torah or fulfills a Divine commandment is uniting with God, creating the most perfect unity possible.
On a deeper level, the entire period which started with the giving of the Torah is one long betrothal.
We are committed to God, and He to us, but this marriage has never expressed itself in full glory.
The Messianic Era will usher in the age of nisu'in, when our relationship will be tangible, fully enjoyed, and revealed for all to see.
The Church better be faithful.....
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Post by kitty on Jun 3, 2009 11:48:20 GMT -5
Ok Guys...
Now since this a different topic... Let be concise....
What do you all see as a differences between courtship and engagement? Because in the other topic people seem to have them as the same thing or a combination... I don't know if that is just personal opinion or actual teaching from one's church...
As I stated before in the churches and ministries that I have been a member teach that there is a difference between dating, courtship, engagement and marriage...
What are your actual teachings on what engagement is and what courtship is?
Kitty
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 3, 2009 13:17:36 GMT -5
Kitty,
This is just my opinion only and if I had to do it all over again I would personally trust GOD and eliminate the entire dating process altogether......
I say that because GOD had already given me confirmation and Word on who I was going to marry long before I met my husband.....and many others who I've talked too knew long before they met their spouse knew who they were going to marry...
In honest reflection, I can truly say that I met my husband in the spirit long before I met him physically. And I'm not going Juanita bynum on yall either.....but it's just the truth.........
But God had shown me so many times, over and over the type of man that I was going to marry right down to characteristics of his family, how he grew up and where he grew up, his profession, etc......but I made my process difficult by not adhering to the voice of God nor the Word of God.....
It takes faith to believe God..............think about it if God says you are going to marry a preacher who lives in Georgia but was born in St. Louis....that means that every man that lives in Georgia that's a preacher is a potential candidate.....and based on the prophetic word you receive from God your flesh goes into automatic operation vacationing in Georgia, attending every conference trying to assist God along....and we can not operate like that...we have to let God bring it too pass.... I did that and not only did I not meet my husband in Georgia...I met him in Memphis at a banquet with my momma and 60 year old aunts....
In all honesty this is true and real talk I would advise every young / old person to please wait and listen to the Voice of God as God does speaks, God does give directions and God does gives us guidance.......
We just have to trust.....we quote all the scriptures (I know the plans I have for you......etc...) from my mother's womb God chosen me.....so we quote all the scriptures but do we really believe that GOD has plans for our lives to prosper us, give us hope and give us an expected end............
As Saints do we really believe that God created us and that he has a plan for our lives....... and this goes for me too do we really believe that.....
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 3, 2009 13:20:28 GMT -5
See its EASY to leave something you are not INVESTED in... |
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Post by kitty on Jun 3, 2009 13:57:16 GMT -5
Ok Guys....
Again... This topic is about what is the differnt stages of courtship, dating, engagement and marriage...
But Living... Since you have addressed me here I have no problem responding to your post...
I think that is wonderful that God revealed your husband to you before hand. I also think it is a wonderful testimony as the same thing to occur in the cases of Giants and Nikkol! They have some of my most favorite testimonies about God bringing people together....
But I think if we want to get to a point that we want to declare or even insists that people get a prophetic word on who to marry before hand we are walking into a area that could be considered legalism... Suggesting that God operates only one way... That's not bibical either...
I think we should also realize that deciding that we want God to operate only in this one way in our lives isn't a fool proof method to finding our spouses either... For many people it has been a long drawn out process that proves to be unfruitful... That is certainly true in my case...
Yes... people can argue that maybe I didn't really hear God... That maybe I did but the 2 guys in question had free will or more likely that at least in one of these cases there was lying spirits involved... Because remember folks... we do have an enemy! The devil is trying to talk to us just as much as God is... And I have to acknowlegde this because I can't explain why some things I received happened to by 100% correct and on point... Yet I wasted 7 years total in my life on prophetic words that seemed to be "partly true" yet ultimately false involving 2 young men who both claimed to have heard from God also but are now married to other people....
Now... I do have faith in God... I just have to WALK BY FAITH NOT BY SIGHT! In regards to who will ultimately become my husband. God has given me enough to judge and go by to figure out who is the right man. It just takes time to observe and get to know someone... I also have to guard my heart as well... Something that I didn't do in the 2 case before now since I was so sure that I heard from God...
Bottom line... for the majority of people past, present and future... the process of dating, courtship and engagement aren't going to go away...
And I think we walk into a danagerous line when we decide that we ONLY find God's best when we get a prophetic word ahead of time...
I have more to share... But I'll stop for now...
LOVE U GUYS!!! i think this is a worth while discussion!
Kitty
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 3, 2009 14:53:41 GMT -5
Let me clear up something: receiving a Word from God doesn't necessarily means that the word has to be uttered prophetically in the way we now know prophecies.....
Receiving a word from God can be something a simple as Lord what route should I take home today and the spirit will tell you to take the feeder roads and not the expressway.....
So I am not trying to "over" spiritualize receiving a Word from God but in all things we should be in constant communication with God....and when you communicate with someone (they speak you listen.........you speak they listen it's a nice verbal volleying back and forth)....
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Jun 3, 2009 19:01:33 GMT -5
But I think if we want to get to a point that we want to declare or even insists that people get a prophetic word on who to marry before hand we are walking into a area that could be considered legalism... Suggesting that God operates only one way... That's not bibical either... I think we should also realize that deciding that we want God to operate only in this one way in our lives isn't a fool proof method to finding our spouses either... For many people it has been a long drawn out process that proves to be unfruitful... That is certainly true in my case... Kitty just because we are saying that one should wait to hear from God doesn't mean that we are only speaking of supernatual signs and wonders and the prophetic word. All we mean that is that we believe that we should "acknowledge him in all his ways, and he will direct our path" and more importantly "trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to our own understanding".... Sometimes is a gentle nudge, an open door, peace of mind, and just the presence of God with us that lets us know what our father desires of us and what is will is for us. Yes... people can argue that maybe I didn't really hear God... That maybe I did but the 2 guys in question had free will or more likely that at least in one of these cases there was lying spirits involved... You raise good points regarding what could have possibly gone awry with the two experiences you refer to. I think it is always important to know where I went wrong in the past, to protect myself from the future, because sometimes we take the same test over and over until we pass it. I know I did. Right after coming out of one heart situation I faced another one with some of the same startling similarities. Now... I do have faith in God... I just have to WALK BY FAITH NOT BY SIGHT! In regards to who will ultimately become my husband. God has given me enough to judge and go by to figure out who is the right man. It just takes time to observe and get to know someone... I also have to guard my heart as well... Something that I didn't do in the 2 case before now since I was so sure that I heard from God... I agree it's wise to guard one's heart. One thing people may not realize: guarding our flesh is not the same as guarding our heart. I also learned that the hard way. Emotional ties can be just as damaging as physical ones. Walking by faith and not by sight means we don't judge and figure out, we by faith wait until God reveals, leads, and advises. He will speak and we will know. He will lead and we will follow. Much Love Gap/Pat |
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Post by kitty on Jun 3, 2009 19:25:43 GMT -5
Gap,
In the post above mine... Living specifically states that if she could do it all over again... She would have gotten rid of all of the dating period... That she would have simply waited on the word that she received from the Lord in which she knew who her husband was ahead of time. And that she did indeed meet her husband in the "spirit".
My post is a response to that... Because in a sense she is saying that she would have only gone by a prophetic word and signs and wonders....
But for her that is fine because she was INDEED hearing from God...
But too many others aren't... Myself included....
Also my response doesn't deny that God operates supernaturally... But is simply saying that God operates more than one way...
This is my ultimate arguement right here...
That God operates more than one way....
So guys correct me if i am wrong... But honestly i sense a little resistance from folks when I am saying that this time around I am trusting God to show me in my circumstances. If this is the right man for me then he will have a strong walk with God, he will love me, our life styles and life goals will line up and he will ask me to marry him. We will have a relationship that works and has harmony. I think as I spend time with this man that I am in a relationship with that God is revealing, leading and advising...
Kitty
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 4, 2009 9:14:31 GMT -5
Kitty, This is just my opinion only and if I had to do it all over again I would personally trust GOD and eliminate the entire dating process altogether...... I say that because GOD had already given me confirmation and Word on who I was going to marry long before I met my husband.....and many others who I've talked too knew long before they met their spouse knew who they were going to marry... In honest reflection, I can truly say that I met my husband in the spirit long before I met him physically. And I'm not going Juanita bynum on yall either.....but it's just the truth......... But God had shown me so many times, over and over the type of man that I was going to marry right down to characteristics of his family, how he grew up and where he grew up, his profession, etc......but I made my process difficult by not adhering to the voice of God nor the Word of God..... Kitty the only reason I said that I personally would eliminate the dating process is that dating caused me a lot of unnecessary heartache and if I would have went on with my life and worked as God has planned for me...... I believe that I would have eliminated a whole lot of crying, unnecessary searching, wondering, faith being tested and temptations and sins had I just trusted that God will bring it to pass in His own time......Of course human relationship is necessary and desirable and it is natural for two heterosexual people to have an attraction to one another....but for me and if I was advising anyone I would strongly encourage them to Wait on God and live your life........These days I am not a big Juanita Bynum fan but I will give her "props" on her message "No More Sheets".......in retrospect I don't believe she was trying to make a doctrine on finding / obtaining a husband but what she was doing was telling ladies to quit all the guessing games...... trust God and GET Yourself together and that God will direct you to your mate once He is ready for you to have one....... Honestly if I would have taken the time I spent in prayer over my prospective mate and asking "Lord is he the one, blah, blah, blah and spent that time in prayer asking the Lord "what is your will for my life; what is it that you desire of me" and honestly looking to receive a Word from God over my purpose as oppose to my husband IMO I think that I would be a stronger more powerful vessel for the Lord..... And the reason I believe that my walk with God would be stronger is that I would have a true testimony of believing God and walking by Faith ........ |
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