Casting Out a Homosexual Demon-CNN News

[MinLisa]

Praise the Lord Saint this was posted on another forum so I would like to share this with you. to know your thoughts..

(CNN) -- The boy writhes uncontrollably on the floor, but the church members remain calm, if increasingly loud. They're trying to drive a "demon" out of him. "You homosexual demon, get up on outta here!" they say. "You demon, loose yourself!" "You sex demon ... you snake!"

The shouts, the convulsions, the references to homosexual spirits -- they are all captured on a video posted on YouTube by the Manifested Glory Ministries. The video has sparked anger among gay youth advocacy groups and put the small church from Bridgeport, Connecticut, in the middle of an ongoing national debate on gay issues.

Patricia McKinney, pastor of the nondenominational church who describes herself as a prophet, said she has even been receiving death threats as a result of the video, but doesn't understand the outrage.
"I believe in deliverance, I believe in anointing, I believe in the power of Jesus," she said in a phone interview with CNN. "I've been threatened already, I've been attacked, and it doesn't make any sense to us. Really, what they're doing, they're putting me out there on the mat." McKinney says she doesn't refer to the events of the video as an exorcism, but rather a "casting out of unclean spirits." She said this isn't the first time that an event like this has taken place at her church, but it is the first one centered around homosexuality.

McKinney said the boy approached the church and told her he wanted to be a pastor, but was struggling with his sexuality. "We allow [gay people] to come into our church. We just don't allow them to come in and continue to live that lifestyle," she said. "God made Adam and Eve," she said. "He made a woman to be with a man, and a man to be with a woman."

Robin McHaelen, who worked with the 16-year-old boy at the center of the video in her position as executive director of True Colors Inc., a gay youth advocacy and mentoring program in Connecticut, said the video was taped in March. She would not identify the teen. McHaelen said she doesn't think the church acted maliciously -- but that's part of her problem with the video. The event, McHaelen said, reflects a culture and society that doesn't believe a person can be both Christian and gay. "That's what makes me so sad and so mad," she said.


"None of the people in this video were intending to hurt this kid," she said. "They performed this ritual in an attempt to rid him of feelings that he didn't want to have."
CLICK HERE TO SEE THE ACTUAL VIDEO: edition.cnn.com/2009/US/06/25/connecticut.gay.exorcism/index...______________________________________

QUESTIONS:
(1) Does the methodology bring true deliverance?
(2) Were the civil rights of this young man violated?
(3) What do you feel will be the ramifications of this CNN interview against the Church at large by gay rights advocacy groups?
(4) Does the Pastor's explanations bring harm or hope to the ministry for unbelievers?

[Nikkol]

I had posted that on the other question but I'll add it here:

And check out this video of a church making a gay exorcism video:

HERE

Here's a DISCUSSION HERE about it as well.


Side Note: I do wonder if by having us record and put snippets of services on youtube etc (without one's knowledge) is gonna have a very adverse affect on the church.....


QUESTIONS:
(1) Does the methodology bring true deliverance?

I think that it is possible.

(2) Were the civil rights of this young man violated?

No. He came to them for help which would indicate that he knew what was going on before he asked for this help.

(3) What do you feel will be the ramifications of this CNN interview against the Church at large by gay rights advocacy groups?

The church at large has issues already regarding this topic. And now that there seems to be a split between what churches agree and what church doesn't, it makes it look worse.

(4) Does the Pastor's explanations bring harm or hope to the ministry for unbelievers?

I don't think it makes it "worse". But like I said before, the fact that we record a lot of things in church (knowingly and unknowingly) there are many unbelievers that will get a bad taste in their mouth. Not to mention the fact that the news does a "wonderful job" making it seem like church ppl are intolerant. So what you find is more preachers who change their message and become more seeker-friendly and change their message to appease the ppl.

The church soon will not be able to use the reason why 2 females or 2 males is wrong is because they aren't able to get married.......

Honestly, what'll end up happening is that I do believe that the church will soon go into major persecution.

[giantsdodie]

I had a long response and lost it.. LOL...

Bottom Line.. The gay agenda wants to push the idea that homosexuality is not sin, a perversion or a lifestyle choice, but that this is the way they are MADE and therefore it is perfectly NORMAL..

Anything that portrays a different agenda will be attacked.. PERIOD..

The ONLY way not to be at war with them is to submit to everything THEY want and to accept their beliefs as truth....

[keita]

Watching services like this often leaves me wondering if Jesus and the folks who came to Him had those same experiences with deliverance.

Jun 29, 2009 11:27:38 GMT -5 giantsdodie said:

The gay agenda wants to push the idea that homosexuality is not sin, a perversion or a lifestyle choice, but that this is the way they are MADE and therefore it is perfectly NORMAL..

I completely agree, bro giants.

And I do not believe the Church can or will ever operate in the power and authority to fight, let alone defeat, that agenda as long as it continues to, both overtly and covertly, harbor homosexuality among its own leadership and ranks.

Sin in the camp= Defeat

Jun 29, 2009 9:34:00 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

I do believe that the church will soon go into major persecution.

I believe that too, sis Nikkol.

And I believe our dealing with this issue will be one of the major reasons for that coming persecution.

Which is why we (the Body of Christ) seriously need to "get our ducks in a row" on the matter, both in Spirit and in Truth.

[krazeeboi]

Question: is homosexuality a demon or a spirit?

I think we have a tendency in the church to label everything a spirit when many such things are not.

[Nikkol]

Jun 29, 2009 19:07:59 GMT -5 krazeeboi said:

Question: is homosexuality a demon or a spirit?

I think we have a tendency in the church to label everything a spirit when many such things are not.

Are we definining it based on the attraction or the action? I do believe that Jewish ppl make a distinction. (being moreso regarding the action)

[giantsdodie]

Jun 29, 2009 19:07:59 GMT -5 krazeeboi said:

Question: is homosexuality a demon or a spirit?

I think we have a tendency in the church to label everything a spirit when many such things are not.

Actually there is no true distinction between spirit of demon. We tend to call them demons nowadays but the bible called them devils or unclean spirits... ( there apparently was no greek word for " demon " )

However I dont believe homosexuality is a spiriit. It is is manifestation of the spirit of perversion ( or as the bible calls it a perverse spirit )

Unfortunately we tend to name the manifestation or fruit of a spirit the spirit itself...

Like we will call out a nicotene spirit for a smoker when we really should be addressing the spirit of bondage...

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

Jun 29, 2009 19:07:59 GMT -5 krazeeboi said:

Question: is homosexuality a demon or a spirit?
I think we have a tendency in the church to label everything a spirit when many such things are not.

I agree. I have seen so many things blamed on demonic activity, it's almost fanatic. I suppose the more we (general) place the blame of our sinful thoughts and deeds on demonic activities, the less we have to be accountable for, huh? We forget that our souls are saved, not our flesh, and unless we keep our flesh under subjection, it will "rise up" at a moments' notice. Our flesh is constantly at war with the spirit of Christ living within us.

Now can demons, evil spirits, familiar spirits, etc.. influence us? Of course. Tempt us? Absolutely. Lead us astray? Yes. Oppress and Possess us? Sure. BUT not without our yielding. Not without our being drawn way of our own lusts. Not without our not being prayed up, fasted up, studied up, etc... We wrestle not with flesh and blood, it's true, but we must build up ourselves in our most holy faith so that we can stand against the wiles of the devil and against our own flesh as well. And I don't think enough attention is put on that as much as it is on evil spirits.

Jun 30, 2009 6:56:19 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

Are we definining it based on the attraction or the action? I do believe that Jewish ppl make a distinction. (being moreso regarding the action)

I have heard it said that the sin of homosexuality is the act, not the temptation. But didn't Jesus say of adultery that if a man look at a woman with lust in his heart, he has already sinned? Why wouldn't that also apply to homosexual attraction? I think this school of thought is to pacify the homosexual who is perhaps saved and still struggling with the attraction to the opposite sex.

What we don't realize though, is that is indirectly saying it's okay to have those temptations as long as you don't act on them. And that's not true, it's misleading and destructive. The reason I say this is that if I accept these feelings after salvation I will not try to fight against them. And eventually I will become weak and will give in. Again and again and again. This is why people think this sin is the one you cannot overcome.

We should be teaching them same as we would a whoremonger, theif, murderer or liar, and that is how to submit their heart, mind, soul and body to the spirit, word and will of God so that they will be less likely to be overcome by those fleshy desires and more likely to be able to yield not to temptation. Same as with any other believer. Same as with any other struggle. Same as with any other sin.

[krazeeboi]

Well the Bible does say that Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. Temptation is a fact of life and it's something we'll always have to fight and deal with. There is also a difference between attraction and lust. The former may lead to the latter, but not necessarily so.

Homosexuality just seems to be something rooted much more deeply than your "regular" (so to speak) sins, at least from the little I've read about it. Someone posted a pretty lengthy article about it here some time ago that was enlightening, at least to me.

[anointedteacher]

I have a question.... Do U think a person can be born with the manifestation of homosexuality? Where the transformation is made while th baby is still in the womb, like rejection, depression, sickness and diseases?

[anointedteacher]

The church need to stop taping and recording everything... Everybody don't need to see a person being delivered... How about protecting the person you pray for, privacy. There certian things that should not be done in front of a camera and certian thing should be spoken into the mic. The church need to use wisdom and realize everything is not for everybody....

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

Jun 30, 2009 10:33:22 GMT -5 anointedteacher said:

The church need to stop taping and recording everything... Everybody don't need to see a person being delivered... How about protecting the person you pray for, privacy. There certian things that should not be done in front of a camera and certian thing should be spoken into the mic. The church need to use wisdom and realize everything is not for everybody....

I think the area where the church needs to excercise more wisdom is in HOW they attempt to cast demons out. Can you imagine how effective a video would have been that was done according to THE WORD OF GOD in decency and in order?? My God. THAT'S where we need more wisdom.

Jun 30, 2009 10:12:32 GMT -5 anointedteacher said:

I have a question.... Do U think a person can be born with the manifestation of homosexuality? Where the transformation is made while th baby is still in the womb, like rejection, depression, sickness and diseases?

No I don't.

Jun 30, 2009 10:00:52 GMT -5 krazeeboi said:

Homosexuality just seems to be something rooted much more deeply than your "regular" (so to speak) sins, at least from the little I've read about it. Someone posted a pretty lengthy article about it here some time ago that was enlightening, at least to me.

Now here is where I disagree. We have made it above and beyond other sins. We have put it in this special category and that only reinforces the idea that something extra special needs to be done for deliverance from that sin. Which is not true. And so, for me, inspite of commentaries, books, etc... may say that, in all the bible says about the sin of homosexuality, it doesn't say that either.

[krazeeboi]

Jun 30, 2009 10:12:32 GMT -5 anointedteacher said:

I have a question.... Do U think a person can be born with the manifestation of homosexuality? Where the transformation is made while th baby is still in the womb, like rejection, depression, sickness and diseases?

I think it's possible that there may be a genetic predisposition towards it, like alcoholism, but not a genetic predetermination. The American Psychological Association says:

There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation.

Even so, suppose that we found out that there was indeed a definite biological link to homosexuality. The following, taken from a blog I read sometimes, sums it up quite well:

But what if a biological link was discovered tomorrow? What follows from this, morally speaking? Nothing. Genetics cannot tell us anything about what is moral. Genetics are descriptive, describing the way things are. Morality, however, is prescriptive, prescribing the way things ought to be.

Just because one has a natural disposition toward some desire and/or to engage in some behavior does not mean that desire/behavior is moral. We can desire many things that are immoral. The cause of the desire—whether biological or otherwise—cannot change the moral nature of the act itself. What if a biological link was found for incestual desires? Would that make incest morally acceptable? What if a biological link was discovered for pedophilia? Would that make pedophilia morally acceptable? Would we have to consider such desires and behavior “normal?” Of course not! The same is true of homosexuality. If a biological link is discovered, it may help us to better understand the origin of same-sex attraction, but it can do nothing to better our understanding of sexual morality.

[krazeeboi]

Jun 30, 2009 10:46:55 GMT -5 Poetricia (G.A.P.) said:

Jun 30, 2009 10:00:52 GMT -5 krazeeboi said:

Homosexuality just seems to be something rooted much more deeply than your "regular" (so to speak) sins, at least from the little I've read about it. Someone posted a pretty lengthy article about it here some time ago that was enlightening, at least to me.

Now here is where I disagree. We have made it above and beyond other sins. We have put it in this special category and that only reinforces the idea that something extra special needs to be done for deliverance from that sin. Which is not true. And so, for me, inspite of commentaries, books, etc... may say that, in all the bible says about the sin of homosexuality, it doesn't say that either.

The fact of the matter is that on some levels, all sins are NOT equal. There are indeed some sins that are more serious, more deeply rooted, etc. than other sins. And I think we do ourselves a great disservice when we don't make those distinctions on a PRACTICAL level. All sins are the same in the sense that all sin causes one to become separated from God; they all have the same ultimate effect. But on a practical level, they aren't all the same. Even you yourself just said that it's not enough that the homosexual stop acting on the desires, because the desire for the same sex is in itself unnatural. That's not the case of the heterosexual. Worse comes to worse, the heterosexual could just get married and have all the sex he/she wants. With the homosexual, that desire for the same sex is something that has to be rooted out and oftentimes goes back to something psychologically/mentally traumatic and healing has to take place in that area. That's not something you typically have to deal with when it comes to a straight person who's just horny. We're dealing with something that's innate not just to humanity but to the entire animal kingdom (sexuality), that's necessary for our very survival as a species, that has been corrupted in certain individuals. That's pretty serious and, IMO, is much more complicated than someone who just lies or cheats or steals. And now that I think about it, I think this is probably why we tend to see the prevalence of homosexuality in the church today: because we haven't dealt with the specialized nature of this sin, people aren't really being delivered from it. We think that all we have to do is slap oil on folks, lay hands, and it's gone. But when it comes to this, I think it has to be a process that includes things like counseling and the like. And this also applies to other sexually-related issues that people might be dealing with that relate to things like molestation, rape, etc. And I also don't think it's a coincidence that the Black church seems to deal with homosexuality in particular more obviously than predominantly White churches since we have historically disregarded the role of mental health and counseling in overall physical and spiritual well-being.

I think this article I found on the Exodus International website is particularly enlightening as it details how homosexuality often takes root in the formative years of a person's life.

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

Jun 30, 2009 11:30:27 GMT -5 krazeeboi said:

The fact of the matter is that on some levels, all sins are NOT equal. There are indeed some sins that are more serious, more deeply rooted, etc. than other sins. And I think we do ourselves a great disservice when we don't make those distinctions on a PRACTICAL level. All sins are the same in the sense that all sin causes one to become separated from God; they all have the same ultimate effect. But on a practical level, they aren't all the same. Even you yourself just said that it's not enough that the homosexual stop acting on the desires, because the desire for the same sex is in itself unnatural. That's not the case of the heterosexual. Worse comes to worse, the heterosexual could just get married and have all the sex he/she wants. With the homosexual, that desire for the same sex is something that has to be rooted out and oftentimes goes back to something psychologically/mentally traumatic and healing has to take place in that area. That's not something you typically have to deal with when it comes to a straight person who's just horny. We're dealing with something that's innate not just to humanity but to the entire animal kingdom (sexuality), that's necessary for our very survival as a species, that has been corrupted in certain individuals. That's pretty serious and, IMO, is much more complicated than someone who just lies or cheats or steals. And now that I think about it, I think this is probably why we tend to see the prevalence of homosexuality in the church today: because we haven't dealt with the specialized nature of this sin, people aren't really being delivered from it. We think that all we have to do is slap oil on folks, lay hands, and it's gone. But when it comes to this, I think it has to be a process that includes things like counseling and the like. And this also applies to other sexually-related issues that people might be dealing with that relate to things like molestation, rape, etc. And I also don't think it's a coincidence that the Black church seems to deal with homosexuality in particular more obviously than predominantly White churches since we have historically disregarded the role of mental health and counseling in overall physical and spiritual well-being.

KB, you have brought up some points that I had not thought all the way through. Thanks for this post. It helps me better understand this train of thought. I will read the link and share my thoughts at a later date. God bless.