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Post by krazeeboi on Aug 28, 2009 10:32:08 GMT -5
We've seen the crazy townhall forums, the words "socialist" and "Nazi" thrown around like it's nothing, and the many myths being circulated. So what do you think about this whole healthcare debate? Do we need healthcare reform? Should we have a public option? Should we adopt some parts of the healthcare systems of other developed nations who spend less per capita on healthcare and yet have higher life expectancies?
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Post by anointedteacher on Aug 28, 2009 14:05:33 GMT -5
We've seen the crazy townhall forums, the words "socialist" and "Nazi" thrown around like it's nothing, and the many myths being circulated. Don't forget the teabaggers, the birthers and the right to bare guns, like in the cowboy days, around the President. Rex Rammell, Idaho GOP, who are running for senator in 2010. made jokes about hunting Obama, at his rally... He was talking about buying wolf tags (license to hunt wolfs) someone shout out Obama tags, he says he have to buy those too. The myths... Death panels, they will pull the plug on grandma? government taking control of our health care and decides who will be receiving service? They will wipe out the insurance companies? The government will fund abortion? They will fund illegal aliens? The long line and long wait to see a doctor? Limited care? There are some more, but I can't think them right now. The GOP don't have any solution or decent alternative so they fight with lies and fear... Absolutely! too many ppl are without insurance. Many company had to drop insurance, because of the rise in price. The cost of medical insurance and not able to pay for medical bill have put many in debt and it play a big part in our economy status today. We can't afford not to have healthcare reform. yes.. healthcare without public option is useless, they should give the ppl what they want... We should have been examining other nations along time ago... They system work very well for them. I read plenty of bloggers from Canada, France, UK... they pity us... They believe their healthcare system is the best. We are so far behind, it a shame.
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Post by krazeeboi on Aug 29, 2009 0:16:30 GMT -5
I didn't hear that about Rammell. All of this joking about killing the president, praying for him to die, etc. is just INSANE. I mean I know some similar stuff was said about Bush by some extremists, but I don't think it was nearly to this extent. God forbid, God forbid, God FORBID, but if our president were to be assassinated, what would follow would make the aftermath of King's assassination and the Rodney King verdict look like a day at Disneyland. It could very well turn out to be an all-out race war here in the US.
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Post by anointedteacher on Aug 29, 2009 0:38:14 GMT -5
A Civil War... a loody mess.... Thereare just as much white that love the President as black... it will be between the Rep and Dem.... The small town real American and Big City American...
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 2, 2009 7:28:12 GMT -5
I've had a chance to hear and read up on the town hall meetings and the whole debate.
I know some of the questions that were brought up were in reference to illegal immigrants and if they'd also receive this gov't healthcare? Which of course could become very "ugly".
Others are concerned that as ppl that worked their whole life and paid (or still pay) a LOT per month for healthcare will have equal care as those who don't work (but CAN work) and pay nothing at all for healthcare. For many, healthcare takes out a big chunk of ppl's paychecks and because of that, they would expect to have very good healthcare.
Even others are looking at it from the fact that with gov't taking over health care, companies may drop coverage on employees for this gov't care which some ppl believe won't be as good as what they have now (and many aren't even happy now but would be less with this new "plan").
Some other thoughts were that the bill is just too long. It would've been better if they were to have smaller bills dealing with specific issues. Because since some things may appear "generic" it could be interpreted many different ways. I honestly think that a bill that has 1500 pages is at least 1450 pages too long. Most ppl can't read that much and when all is said and done, that bill will effect all of us.
And others are concerned that gov't will begin to be able to "weed" out ppl based on who "should" be helped...ie survival of the fittest.
I'm not really a fan of this bill. Although much talk about how it has "worked" in other areas, I don't believe that other areas have the same issues as we do. Even with just the illegal immigrant issue... I don't hear that a lot of illegals are trying to go to UK or France or even Canada. Do they have as many ppl as we do in the US? Do they carry as much debt as the US? Does anyone here know (or can post information) on how it works in other areas?
Those are just some things that I've heard.......
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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 2, 2009 20:12:27 GMT -5
I honestly think that Pres. Obama might have picked the wrong time to try and pass healthcare reform. Or, as you said Nikkol, the individual reforms should have been introduced separately so as to be presented to the public in manageable "bites." Some of the hysteria surrounding "death panels" is crazy since the AARP has actually as lobbied in support of the advanced planning provision in the proposed health care bill. According to the bill, "such consultation shall include the following: An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to; an explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses; an explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy." Medicare will cover one session every five years, the legislation states. If a patient becomes very ill in the interim, Medicare will cover additional sessions. The claims concerning euthanasia, etc. are just CRAZY. I mean seriously, these people think that our president is trying to turn the US into a Nazi Germany for seniors!!! How can people believe this? It's probably the same people who feel that Obama's not even a US citizen and that he's the antichrist--the REAL antichrist. Oh yeah, and these counseling sessions are NOT MANDATORY in the House bill as some have falsely asserted. As far as the way other developed nations--all of whom have higher life expectancies and pay less per person than here in the US--have set up their health care systems, I found this article a bit helpful. It's not exhaustive, but it does go a long way to dispelling some of the myths.
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Post by anointedteacher on Sept 2, 2009 22:07:43 GMT -5
I've had a chance to hear and read up on the town hall meetings and the whole debate. I know some of the questions that were brought up were in reference to illegal immigrants and if they'd also receive this gov't healthcare? Which of course could become very "ugly". No... I remember that question being answered. If an illegal immigrants become very ill, and is rush to the emergency room, they will not be denied service, as always. If they can't pay, the taxpayers is stuck with bill... same as this system. There are ppl that worked their whole life and can't no longer afford the insurance and many companies are drooping the insurance because of the continuous rise of cost. Many small business owners can't afford health insurance. PPL who not working (but can) we still paying for their healthcare... and paying more than what we should... If they had healthcare, most of the emergency sickness would have been prevented through regular doctor visit. Every american citizen should have good healthcare and no one should be denied. Many of those hard working ppl with so called good insurance will be denied if they get real sick by the present healthcare or lose the insurance if they no longer can work. Companies are already dropping coverages... because it causing them hardship... Health Insurance will triple by next year and the deductible are outrageously high. If it good enough for Congress, it is good enough for us.. It is the same healthcare Congress have right now. The bill has been broken down over and over again and the same questions have been explained over and over again. False... not true I've read a blog commend that say seniors take bus ride to Canada to buy prescription... I also read that someone was visiting Canada and got sick in his hotel room, a doctor was sent to his room, and he didn't have to pay anything not even for the prescription. I feel no one should be denied good health care in the USA...
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Post by stillfocused on Sept 2, 2009 23:53:45 GMT -5
It's true that people will go to other countries to get their prescriptions because they are cheaper. I have a coworker who considering going to Mexico to get her tooth pulled..because the price approx..20 - 25 over $100. Healthcare does need an overhaul..I pay approx 35 each pay period for medical insurance..and each time I visit a doctor it's 15.00 that adds up. Illegals don't have to go to other countries..because their medical coverage, dental coverage, housing needs, and everything is being paid by the US citizens who don't qualify to receive the same benefits if they lose their jobs. It's true companies won't give you life insurance if have what they term an incurable disease.
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 3, 2009 8:39:38 GMT -5
@krazee: I definitely can agree with you there. It was DEFINITELY a bad time. That was a very interesting article. I really don't know how the BEST way to handle this is...but I don't think this bill is the best way...not now. Also, can you find any info (if any) in reference to malpractice suits and malpractice insurance policies that doctors have? I can't recall someone dying in those areas and they sue the doctor for millions of dollars (tho I may be wrong). For I can see that with this healthcare plan, there's no way the gov't is going to pay that type of money. I know that we're already loosing doctors based on the insurance amounts they have to pay already. AT, I can see your point. And I would say that the premiums for insurance are high let alone the copay. This causes many who have insurance to not use it as often because it's too expensive. Even if I cut my finger off, I'd probably still want to make an appt with the doctor than go to the emergency room because I have to pay a fee if I don't stay overnite...while others go to the emergency room for whatever because there's no "fee" attached to it. I also recall someone asking Obama in reference to this plan and something about his family but I don't think that he answered the question......anyone remember that? It was something about if his family would be on this plan as well with no "extra's"....
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Post by giantsdodie on Sept 3, 2009 8:47:24 GMT -5
I think its very simple. This isnt about whats good for people. Heathcare is a BUSINESS and no BUSINESS wants to be regulated by the govt. People have been lobbied and had pockets filled and campaigns contributed to for YEARS to keep the healthcare industry increasing costs for years and years.
Something needs to be done. Is this plan the answer.. I dont know.. but SOMETHING needs to be done.
I also want to see something done about ADULT education. I want to go back to school and get a degree but I cant afford it. I have emailed the Obama Campaign about this issue and have heard nothing at all.
Our workforce needs new tools to compete, yet many people cannot afford the cost to learn new skills..
Politics is simple.. get a bunch of middle aged white people riled upo and scare em real good and you have a chance to overturn or hinder anything...
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 3, 2009 8:56:14 GMT -5
GIANTS: I think education period is too expensive. I'm in Philly which doesn't have the greatest schools and schools that would be good are too expensive (one is $18K....for KINDERGARDEN). And college is getting more and more expensive and PA is likely to cut college grants.....there's a LOT of issues going on...ALL at the same time.
I do agree that something needs to be done. Just not sure what.
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Post by anointedteacher on Sept 3, 2009 10:44:15 GMT -5
I don't think it a bad time... I think it is pass due... They said part of the problem with the economy is because of the cost of healthcare. Many had to drop their heath insurance in order to pay for their Mortgage. They have been trying to push healthcare reform since former Pres. Clinton. Ted Kennedy tried to push it also. There are ppl who can not buy an house, car or find a place to live because they can not pay for their health expense. They have lose their health insurance due to the rising cost... and ended up in the emergency room and hospital. the billed stay on their credit report for 7 years.
Many companies will benefit from Healthcare reform,: *They will have more money *They can hire more ppl *They give more raises *They can expand *All their employees will be covered, so ppl will be more healthy and happy, less woories *Less pressure on them and their employees
The Insurance companies might lower their premiums and deductables.
Just like the USPS, don't effect UPS and FEDX.... Gov. healthcare will not cause other health Ins. companies to disappear... They may develop affordable single payer, for those who want to keep their Insurance, when their employees drop it.
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Post by anointedteacher on Sept 3, 2009 10:52:17 GMT -5
I think its very simple. This isnt about whats good for people. Heathcare is a BUSINESS and no BUSINESS wants to be regulated by the govt. People have been lobbied and had pockets filled and campaigns contributed to for YEARS to keep the healthcare industry increasing costs for years and years. Something needs to be done. Is this plan the answer.. I dont know.. but SOMETHING needs to be done. I also want to see something done about ADULT education. I want to go back to school and get a degree but I cant afford it. I have emailed the Obama Campaign about this issue and have heard nothing at all. Our workforce needs new tools to compete, yet many people cannot afford the cost to learn new skills.. Politics is simple.. get a bunch of middle aged white people riled upo and scare em real good and you have a chance to overturn or hinder anything... Pres. Obama, did issued money for college for those who will normally be disquialified, but I think it for those who are unemployed. Go to the web-site... I think it was $5000 for those who want to go back to school... and it would not affect their unemployments.
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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 3, 2009 11:58:34 GMT -5
Nikkol, I believe you're referring to tort reform. I've heard different things on this, but one of the last articles I read on the subject implies that that isn't going to do a whole lot to bring costs down: washingtonindependent.com/55535/tort-reform-unlikely-to-cut-health-care-costsAT, when I said that I think this is the wrong time, I mean in relation to the controversial stimulus bill that was signed into law. I think Obama should have probably waited until next year to introduce healthcare reform.
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 3, 2009 12:38:34 GMT -5
I don't think it a bad time... I think it is pass due... They said part of the problem with the economy is because of the cost of healthcare. Many had to drop their heath insurance in order to pay for their Mortgage. They have been trying to push healthcare reform since former Pres. Clinton. Ted Kennedy tried to push it also. There are ppl who can not buy an house, car or find a place to live because they can not pay for their health expense. They have lose their health insurance due to the rising cost... and ended up in the emergency room and hospital. the billed stay on their credit report for 7 years. Many companies will benefit from Healthcare reform,: *They will have more money *They can hire more ppl *They give more raises *They can expand *All their employees will be covered, so ppl will be more healthy and happy, less woories *Less pressure on them and their employees The Insurance companies might lower their premiums and deductables. Just like the USPS, don't effect UPS and FEDX.... Gov. healthcare will not cause other health Ins. companies to disappear... They may develop affordable single payer, for those who want to keep their Insurance, when their employees drop it. Do you have any articles/websites to indicate that health care insurance cuts was based on ppl paying mortgages? With mortgages, what appears to have happened is ppl bit off more than they could chew. I'd be highly surprised to believe that some of the ppl who got into these ARMS thought they could afford it if the percentage increased. (most ppl have an idea if they can afford monthly pymts or not). Healthcare does not equal being able to hire more ppl nor does it mean that employees will be more healthy/happy and I HIGHLY doubt that the healthcare reform will mean bigger raises. I know if I had a company, I wouldn't be able to say that healthcare reform would give me greater access to funds. Additionally, having unpaid bills (or even bankruptcy) doesn't usually cause you to be unable to buy a house, etc..... usually your percentage rate would be higher. I use to be a loan officer and ppl had ALL KINDS OF THINGS on their report but you can usually find something for them as well. You don't think that UPS and FEDEX (and DHL) effects USPS? Right now, USPS has this service by which if you can fit it in a certain box, you get a fixed rate. So then it just becomes a big fight for who can get more business...I think that the gov't plan would win because it's gov't that runs the US and they could easily make it difficult for other insurance companies..... I really don't know how they should do it.... but to try to tackle everything at once like this instead of having a gameplan to change things throughout a few years could really cause many issues that we don't even know about..... Few questions: 1) Do you believe in doing everything right away that this would limit the amount of ppl that are unhealthy? 2) Do you believe that many ppl that don't have insurance would start going to the doctor now if they had insurance? (I ask this question because I know of MANY ppl that don't go to the dr. and don't plan to go to the dr....and GOD FORBID they have to go to a hospital) 3) How do you see this gov't plan working? And do you believe that we'd still have private insurance? And if not, wouldn't that cause many ppl to loose their job because they wouldn't need as many ppl?
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