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Post by Nikkol on Nov 13, 2009 9:01:50 GMT -5
There's a part 2 and part 3 as well. Apparently ppl on FB have been talking about this and wanted to see what your thoughts....the comments were what really what got my attention.
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Post by MinLisa on Nov 13, 2009 15:47:44 GMT -5
WOW!!!! I'm glad Donnie Mclurkin stood up and spoke on this.. ......This is a burden on him....The house needed to be clean out.......... Lord.. Help us today!!!
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 13, 2009 16:05:11 GMT -5
For those who don't know, this was during the COGIC holy convocation last week. I saw all the services live online (I missed this one, but saw the replay the next day). It's high time somebody told it like it is, and I'm also glad he touched on the Tonex situation. There was a mighty spirit of deliverance in that place. Pastor Linwood Dillard and Evangelist Joyce Rodgers helped set the atmosphere for this move of God before Pastor McClurkin got up.
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 16, 2009 7:44:43 GMT -5
I saw it differently.....partly because of being in a deliverance ministry much was exposed but in these types of settings, many times, the surgery begins, but the person is properly closed back up and therefore leaves them more exposed than they were before....
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Post by anointedteacher on Nov 16, 2009 10:27:08 GMT -5
I saw it differently.....partly because of being in a deliverance ministry much was exposed but in these types of settings, many times, the surgery begins, but the person is properly closed back up and therefore leaves them more exposed than they were before.... Could you explain in more detail? I can't listen to the video (I am almost deaf) so I just read the response from other to get an ideal of what taken place in the service. What is the proper way to close a person who received deliverance back up.... What did they missed... or what are the proper steps in bring forth deliverance to a congregation and to those who watches the videos.... How do the minister protect himself from spiritual attacks... |
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 16, 2009 13:26:39 GMT -5
As a Backdrop to ALL of this. I don't think it is EVER proper to have ppl who come up to the altar on video.
First of all, these types of lines "point out" certain things. Of course we know that not everyone is dealing with the same thing as well as not everyone who was dealing with it went to the altar. So what does that do? For those that didn't know that a person was struggling, you now know. And you know EXACTLY what it is (their issue). So after, you get up from crying, etc. many ppl get hit on by others. For some, they weren't apporached because it would've been a "hit or miss". But now ppl know. There are other things that go on as well....
So, let's say that the person believes that they were helped and no longer have that issue and something comes up and they still have this attraction? Depending on the church, they may not have that "opening" to talk to someone. Or they feel as though it didn't work and their faith level decreases. (it has been said that many church boys committ suicide because of this)
Deliverance is a continuous thing. Ppl will be attacked. But how do you get delivered and STAY delivered? A touch is good. But you need principles to how to walk in that.
And we know that when you cast something out, if it comes back they come back with more.
Just a few things.....
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Post by anointedteacher on Nov 16, 2009 17:13:07 GMT -5
As a Backdrop to ALL of this. I don't think it is EVER proper to have ppl who come up to the altar on video. I have to agree with you... It a matter of privacy, which is why many didn't go up... But remember this is not Pastor McClurkin church, it was a convention... Those who are over the convention control what be taped and what not... they could have blug the faces or kept the camera on the speaker and avoids showing ppl at the altar. I believe they have counselors (not sure) that will help the person who been ministered to and get him/her mentor... I hope these ppl are not left hanging... some probably need to leave their Churches that allow these behavior. Some deliverance are immediately and other progressive When it comes to a convention... it is the ppl who conducting the convention responsibility to follow up, counsel and walk these ppl through their deliveranace... They suppose to be prepared to deal with these things... It not the quest responsibility. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 16, 2009 18:19:13 GMT -5
Nikkol, you make great points. I suppose in this case, Donnie didn't have any control over the cameras, but I was told that at another service where he ministered along these lines a few years ago, right before he made the altar call, he instructed the camera men to stop taping.
Secondly, and this is one I had considered as well, there will need to be ongoing accountability, as you so aptly mentioned. This goes with anything someone might be trying to overcome, from procrastination to overeating to fornication. We need to realize that everyone isn't instantly delivered from stuff; as a matter of fact, it seems to be more of the exception than the norm, at least from my point of view. Sadly, I think many of those young people might be going back to churches where they won't receive that ongoing care that they will need to stay free.
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 16, 2009 20:10:57 GMT -5
So true.... and for me, this is a personal PET PEEVE of mine. If I even told you HALF the stories that go on when ppl do these things. Right now, I can't say that I know the BEST way of dealing with things like this. However, I would say that there are ppl dealing with much more than just homosexuality...and I HATE that ppl just pick "certain things". What about those dealing with low self esteem...those who just are having "hetero-sex"...those that can't stop lying/gossiping. I do remember hearing that the person that came up before Donnie did create a good atmosphere...but that he messed it up. (I wasn't there so I don't know for certain).
And you're right. They need ongoing care and someone to talk to for help. Between that and having special meetings for ppl that are either "sex crazed" or all gay --- I mean really, do you (general) really think that that isn't going to stir up the flesh? OK...I think I'm getting upset again. <<taking deep breaths>>
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 17, 2009 0:37:20 GMT -5
Pastor Linwood Dillard started with creating the right atmosphere, and Evangelist Joyce Rodgers took it from there. She actually made an altar call for those who wanted to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost right before Donnie took the microphone. And while I understand that everyone can relate to their own particular struggle(s) more than those they aren't as familiar with, I do think it would have helped if he had broadened things a bit, possibly to call for those who were dealing with sexual impurity on any level, to include homosexuality, fornication, adultery, pornography, etc.
As far as support groups are concerned, I think that if they are structured properly, they can be a good thing. But I totally understand your concern though. It's like having a "Kleptomaniacs Anonymous" group and find out that one of the biggest jewelry heists in your city's history was perpetrated by several members of that group, LOL.
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 17, 2009 7:53:59 GMT -5
Wow...now I'm a little more hurt/upset because there was an opportunity for ppl to be baptized in the HG (esp. based on the fact that I heard that the spirit was very high) to "trivialize" it to just certain things....Wow......  LOL @ Kleptomaniacs. It's true though. I've learned that in dealing with certain things, having them all together can be really bad. Esp. sexual sins because sex was the one thing we were told to RUN away from and now you have us all in the room and we KNOW that we all have the same issue....you just got yourself a hookup buddy for every day of the week...LOL. I mean it's not funny but some things you have to use wisdom on. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Nov 17, 2009 9:48:15 GMT -5
I really wonder at times how many of us have any actual idea what actually goes on in ministry? We make a lot of comments about how we THINK something should work or HOW it should work but really have no idea. We tend to look at things like these huge gatherings as if they are what is happening in the ENTIRE Body of Christ when they are really just one segment. We say things all the time like.. One plants.. One waters but GOD gets the increase.. but do we REALLY believe that  It is often ONE minister who plants a seed and then someone else down the line you have never heard of and may never see in your entire life who does the watering and the tending of the soil of that saint.. Homosexuality is a HUGE issue because it is so prevalent in the chruch especially the black church. However that doesnt mean other issues are not being challenged. Someone mentions low self esteem... YET we have had all these things that address that EXACT issue.. Knowing who you are in Christ.. and I have seen altar calls in local churches that address a MYRAID of issues.. Grieving spouses Fornication Broken Marriages Unforgiveness Low Self Esteem lack of Identity etc etc etc I mean really i think sometimes we are so QUICK to see what is wrong with something that we miss the point that SOMEONE got what they needed... if ONE person got delivered.. then GLORY to GOD.... |
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 17, 2009 11:26:21 GMT -5
We tend to look at things like these huge gatherings as if they are what is happening in the ENTIRE Body of Christ when they are really just one segment. Speaking for myself, I never went beyond this one event. And let me also say that because nothing was taped beyond the altar call, it is certainly possible that Pastor McClurkin gave instruction to the young people on how to stay free by being accountable to mature saints and spiritual leadership afterwards. I truly hope so. While it would have been worth the effort had just one person received deliverance, you also want to maximize the benefits for everyone here, and that would include guidance concerning "Where do I go from here?" for those who responded. Otherwise, they could fall into the same trap in the future. When it's in our power to do so, we want things to happen "because of," not "in spite of." |
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 17, 2009 12:08:23 GMT -5
Yes (to what KRAZEE said).
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Post by giantsdodie on Nov 17, 2009 12:48:53 GMT -5
Again as someone who wroks in ministry and has worked behind the scenes in ministry there is MUCH going on that people dont see.
I am aware that many times after the service and after the cameras go off that there are other ministry teams who work with people.
I am also aware that many times names of these people are taken as well as the names of their pastors of their local churches and often times that pastor is contacted as well.
If they have no local church many times they are given the names of local outreach ministries they work with.
I am not saying this happens in every instance but it DOES happen.
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It is often ONE minister who plants a seed and then someone else down the line you have never heard of and may never see in your entire life who does the watering and the tending of the soil of that saint..