Church converted 2 Hebrew Israelite Assembly!

[auneeqsol]

Okay.................

There is soooooooo much I can say on this topic but i'll give a lil and let yall open it up for me with questions, or insight on the subject...etc.

My church that I have had affiliation with for bout 10 yrs, has converted into a Hebrew Israelite assembly. We were a non-denominational bible believing church. My pastor is a teacher to the bone!! He has gone against some traditional legalistic views of Churchianity..lol but he stayed in the word always, and I was minister of music over the praise and worship and music dept, my husband was an associate minister there....and so forth (hopefully I explained enough to form a good view of how things were)

Then slowly some ppl came to our church and talked to my pastor about teaching on black heritage more, or the hebraic view of things (he now believes that black ppl in America are descendants of Hebrew Israelites of the bible). And this is to sort of to get ppl to understand that we are the ppl of the bible and that we are the chosen of God to illuminate the word and the message of salvation to the nations. So in a sense it was suppose to give us a sort of urgency to evangelize and to understand that we had a great responsibility of getting the word out because we are his chosen ppl for one.

So that went over , and everyone sort of looked at it like learning a lil history about our ppl beyond just slavery times, as they have taught us in school. But then it started advancing...
The first things that changed was how we addressed the father.
After a while we were told that "God" was a title and not a name (which I agree, of course its not a name) and the use of titles such as "Lord" and "God" were pagan.... and then it was an attack against the name of Jesus. It was said that Jesus was not his birth name given by the father(which in all honesty, we understand that they were Hebrew, or jew as we now say, and that Jesus was probably not the name the angel told Mary to name him) We were told that his true name was Yeshua then they start sayin Yahshua (it probably was Yeshua, but the name changed slightly due to language barriers in which we now have Jesus...but they still dont use the name but I still do) But the name of Jesus was banned, and mockery came behind it.... saying that no power is in that name, and the father just had mercy on us when we called it because we didnt know any better....my pastor taught in this name for bout 20 yrs in ministry...but a lil research and reading brought him to this conclusion, almost overnight!! wow!!! And his reason being is, that we have been europeanized when we were taken in as slaves, and taught a european messiah. Yahshua was of african descent (since that's where everything all started) and they changed his name and his color (look at the madonna and child-it used to be black until it was ordered to be painted white).
I could go on and on....but I will pause right here for comments, questions, insight....
Oh yeah and they started calling the father "Yahweh" and banned the commonly known "Jehovah"

As we go on with this post I will answer questions according to what is taught, which by the way arent necessarily my beliefs.

[auneeqsol]

Okay ppl I need some feedback.....(smile)

[giantsdodie]

Its off. what more can you say ?? Attacking and undermining the name of Jesus is a CLEAR sign.

[auneeqsol]

Now this is just to comment on what you said ....im not saying I believe just that way, but I can tell you I have learned a few things along the way, that I can add to my faith and my beliefs.

Now I do believe that it was wrong to undermine the name of Jesus, because I told you about the language barriers that permit different spelling and different pronunciation of the saviour's name. Their thing was since he was a hebrew, or a jew, we should honor him by calling him by his hebrew name instead of hybrid names or transliterated names.

Yeshua---->Iesous------>Jesus
Hebrew--->Greek--------> English or Universal

Now the reason why they say its no power in that name is because they say the "J" wasnt on the scene until 500 yrs ago, so his given name couldnt have been Jesus, and there is no other name (Yahshua, or some say Yeshua- the name that was given to him upon his birth) under heaven by which man can be saved.

But I say, God allowed us to have this name (Jesus), which it was transliterated to the English language and so forth, for our understanding and use, so he knows who we were are referring to. He's bigger than language barriers. And he's the one who scattered the people and set up the different languages at the tower of Babel anyway....so That's my take on it, I still pray in Jesus' name, and he answers!! but that's just a brief synopsis on the name, which I think they are taking wayyy tooo far, but they feel like they have the truth.

[giantsdodie]

Feb 2, 2010 21:36:01 GMT -5 auneeqsol said:

Now this is just to comment on what you said ....im not saying I believe just that way, but I can tell you I have learned a few things along the way, that I can add to my faith and my beliefs.

Now I do believe that it was wrong to undermine the name of Jesus, because I told you about the language barriers that permit different spelling and different pronunciation of the saviour's name. Their thing was since he was a hebrew, or a jew, we should honor him by calling him by his hebrew name instead of hybrid names or transliterated names.

Yeshua---->Iesous------>Jesus
Hebrew--->Greek--------> English or Universal

Now the reason why they say its no power in that name is because they say the "J" wasnt on the scene until 500 yrs ago, so his given name couldnt have been Jesus, and there is no other name (Yahshua, or some say Yeshua- the name that was given to him upon his birth) under heaven by which man can be saved.

But I say, God allowed us to have this name (Jesus), which it was transliterated to the English language and so forth, for our understanding and use, so he knows who we were are referring to. He's bigger than language barriers. And he's the one who scattered the people and set up the different languages at the tower of Babel anyway....so That's my take on it, I still pray in Jesus' name, and he answers!! but that's just a brief synopsis on the name, which I think they are taking wayyy tooo far, but they feel like they have the truth.

Well I disagree with a lot of their premise. First off the Bible is the inspired Word of GOD. If we believe this to be true then we must accept that every word was given by the inspiration of The HOLY SPIRIT. Men wrote as they were carried along by the Spirit of GOD.

Secondly as ANYONE who understands the history of the Bible knows the New Testament was not written in Hebrew and then Translated into Greek and then Translated into English. I was written in Greek. Period. Jesus was not given a Hebrew name even though he was Hebrew. God PURPOSEFULLY called him Jesus. Now I cannot agree about the letter J issue because im my research there is even some discrepency on that matter. Some say 500 years and some say a form of the letter J existed around 1000 BC.

GOD Himself purposefully said for them to call the child JESUS. Not Yeshua or even Joshua which is the english translaton of the name Yeshua actually. Same thing with JESUS who is a jew who was GIVEN a Greek name. Well the scriptures never ONCE called him Yeshua or Joshua. Not in the OT or in the NT ever called him by a Jewish name.

This is like me calling a Spanish person who is named John., Juan or one who is name Charles, Carlos. Although Juan and Carlos and the Spanish versions of the name John and Carlos it would be wrong of me to call them by ANOTHER name.

John Perez and Juan Perez would not be the same name legally. Yeshua and Jesus are NOT The same name legally in the kingdom. The enemy KNOWS this.

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins (Mat 1:21).
Do not stop him, Jesus said. No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me (Mark 9:39).

You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus (Luke 1:31).

On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived (Luke 2:21).

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name (John 20:31).

Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk" (Acts 3:6).

By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus' name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see (Acts 3:16).

Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed (Acts 4:10).

Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus (Acts 4:18).

Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus (Acts 4:30).

His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go (Acts 5:40).

But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women (Acts 8:12).

Because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 8:16).

But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. He told them how Saul on his journey had seen the Lord and that the Lord had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had preached fearlessly in the name of Jesus (Acts 9:27).

So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days (Acts 10:48).

Men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 15:26).

She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, "In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!" At that moment the spirit left her (Acts 16:18).

On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 19:5).

When this became known to the Jews and Greeks living in Ephesus, they were all seized with fear, and the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor (Acts 19:17).

Then Paul answered, "Why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus" (Acts 21:13).

To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours: (1 Cor 1:2).

I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought (1 Cor 1:10).

When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present (1 Cor 5:4).

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God (1 Cor 6:11).

always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph 5:20).

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (Phil 2:10).

And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him (Col 3:17).

We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ (2 Th 1:12).

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us (2 Th 3:6).

Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name (Heb 13:15).

And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us (1 John 3:23)

This is one thing we need to understand. GOD called him JESUS on purpose.

I have seen the Hebrew Isralites for a long time growing up in Harlem in New York. They are by and large an angry hateful group of black nationalists who attempt to use the Word of God not to reveal the truth of the history of Africans in the Bible ( of which there are many and they are a plethora of books that touch onthe topic ) but to expouse a teaching that glorifies separation and division which is obviously a tactic of the enemy because he knows that house divided will not stand.

The fact that they say there is NO POWER in the name of JESUS.. Isnt that a dead giveaway because this is the very name the BIBLE tells us to use.. The Disciples who were JEWISH used this name.

Think about it.. all the other Jewish names in the Bible were not changed into an English equivalent but the name of JESUS was changed Paul was Jewish but he called Him JESUS. Peter was Jewish but he called Him JESUS. Mathhew a Jew and called Him JESUS.

The attack on the name of JESUS is deliberate from the camp of the enemy.

[giantsdodie]

I would like to point out that this is how they work. I have had many discussion with these people. They're usual plan of atack is to bombard you with their partial knowledge of the scripture. They have memorized a lot of scripture and they can call on their out of context No Holy Ghost interpretation readily. Their bombardment tends to catch most Christians off guard. Then they take you on a little trip through erroneous doctrine which causes you to QUESTION what you have been taught and believe.

Thats how the serpent got Eve.

In every discussion I have had with these people they usually start with the same thing. The color of Jesus skin. When they try that mess with me it does work because I already know Jesus was a man of color. That pretty much diffuses most of their initial ttack because they ASSUME I dont know that already. Then they usually go into that yadda about which tribe do you come from blah blah blah.

They are a cult. Plain and simple.

[Nikkol]

I would disagree with saying that John and Juan are two different names...but rather that it's the same name, different language. Just like me saying red in english vs rojo in spanish...same word, means the same thing but a different language....

Other than that, it's sad that these ppl get so caught up in their color......however turth be told, even they are "true israelites"....if anything, they're Samaritans......for they don't have a pure lineage......

Galatians 1:8-9 --
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before , so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed.

[anointedteacher]

Feb 3, 2010 10:10:58 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

I would disagree with saying that John and Juan are two different names...but rather that it's the same name, different language. Just like me saying red in english vs rojo in spanish...same word, means the same thing but a different language....

Other than that, it's sad that these ppl get so caught up in their color......however turth be told, even they are "true israelites"....if anything, they're Samaritans......for they don't have a pure lineage......

Galatians 1:8-9 --
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before , so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed.

You forgot, the White man came in and stole the Black man identity and the white became the false Israelite Who care what color Jesus is... All I saw was His feet and it glow like a light burb, it was bright!... We had a group here in Miami, and they deceived many young black men and women... The leader is on death row for murdering some of the members. It is a cult like Giant said.

[giantsdodie]

Feb 3, 2010 10:10:58 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

I would disagree with saying that John and Juan are two different names...but rather that it's the same name, different language. Just like me saying red in english vs rojo in spanish...same word, means the same thing but a different language....

Other than that, it's sad that these ppl get so caught up in their color......however turth be told, even they are "true israelites"....if anything, they're Samaritans......for they don't have a pure lineage......

Galatians 1:8-9 --
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before , so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed.

Here is what I said which is critical

John Perez and Juan Perez would not be the same name legally. Yeshua and Jesus are NOT The same name legally in the kingdom. The enemy KNOWS this.

LEGALLY the name are NOT the same name. The name of JESUS is the name by which we operate in Kingdom Power and Authority LEGALLY in the earth.

The enemy KNOWS this. This why there is a specific attack on the name of JESUS. Its the name that has ALL the power and ALL the authority. It is the name that is ABOVE every other name.

If the enemy can convince you that what you call him DOESNT matter, or that ANOTHER name will do.. then you have given away all your power and authority.

[Nikkol]

Feb 3, 2010 14:20:07 GMT -5 giantsdodie said:

Feb 3, 2010 10:10:58 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

I would disagree with saying that John and Juan are two different names...but rather that it's the same name, different language. Just like me saying red in english vs rojo in spanish...same word, means the same thing but a different language....

Other than that, it's sad that these ppl get so caught up in their color......however turth be told, even they are "true israelites"....if anything, they're Samaritans......for they don't have a pure lineage......

Galatians 1:8-9 --
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before , so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed.

Here is what I said which is critical

John Perez and Juan Perez would not be the same name legally. Yeshua and Jesus are NOT The same name legally in the kingdom. The enemy KNOWS this.

LEGALLY the name are NOT the same name. The name of JESUS is the name by which we operate in Kingdom Power and Authority LEGALLY in the earth.

The enemy KNOWS this. This why there is a specific attack on the name of JESUS. Its the name that has ALL the power and ALL the authority. It is the name that is ABOVE every other name.

If the enemy can convince you that what you call him DOESNT matter, or that ANOTHER name will do.. then you have given away all your power and authority.

I understand what you are saying.....I just don't believe that saying the name in a different language means it has no power or authority.

Of course it is fine that we disagree....granted, I'm English and so for the most part I will say Jesus. However if a Korean says "YaeSu Nim" or in India they say "yesu masiha" or in Tamil they say "Yesu Christu" or in Germany they say Jesus (pronounced yesus ) or even Yeshua in the Hebrew tongue, I don't believe that based on the language, it now loses power and authority........ now if the Word that is said is not the translation of "Jesus", that's where I believe the issue would be.

[giantsdodie]

Feb 4, 2010 8:11:50 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

Feb 3, 2010 14:20:07 GMT -5 giantsdodie said:

Here is what I said which is critical

John Perez and Juan Perez would not be the same name legally. Yeshua and Jesus are NOT The same name legally in the kingdom. The enemy KNOWS this.

LEGALLY the name are NOT the same name. The name of JESUS is the name by which we operate in Kingdom Power and Authority LEGALLY in the earth.

The enemy KNOWS this. This why there is a specific attack on the name of JESUS. Its the name that has ALL the power and ALL the authority. It is the name that is ABOVE every other name.

If the enemy can convince you that what you call him DOESNT matter, or that ANOTHER name will do.. then you have given away all your power and authority.

I understand what you are saying.....I just don't believe that saying the name in a different language means it has no power or authority.

Of course it is fine that we disagree....granted, I'm English and so for the most part I will say Jesus. However if a Korean says "YaeSu Nim" or in India they say "yesu masiha" or in Tamil they say "Yesu Christu" or in Germany they say Jesus (pronounced yesus ) or even Yeshua in the Hebrew tongue, I don't believe that based on the language, it now loses power and authority........ now if the Word that is said is not the translation of "Jesus", that's where I believe the issue would be.

Nikkol you are totally missing the point that the Hebrew Israelites make and why their argument is completely WRONG.

We are not talking about simple language differences. I If I say Jesus Christ as an english speaking person and a spanish speaking person says Jesus Christo that is NOT an issue.

What the Hebrew Israelits are saying is that his name is NOT Jesus. They are saying that the name JESUS is WRONG. They are saying because he was a Jew that he would have had a JEWISH name.

That is 100% contrary to what the Bible says. The Bible says specifically that he was to be named JESUS (a Greek Name).

That is where the problem is. Thats why I keep saying you have had a Spanish person ( meaning one of latin/hispanic background and origin) named JOHN (an English name) and if you referred to that person as JUAN or tried to do anything LEGALLY in their name but used JUAN instead of JOHN you would be incorrect.

[auneeqsol]

I see what you are saying GDD, and Nikkol. The thing about this is they talk about Christians for not having the "original" religion (not judaism) but being called by Yahweh's name being hebrew israelites and following the Torah, keeping the sabbath, and so on.
GDD what Nikkol is saying is that in whatever language you say it, it still means the saviour which we call him Jesus. (which they dont believe that ) And Nikkol, GDD is saying that they dont even believe that Jesus is a true name (which that would be a correct analysis of their beliefs) But if you look throughout history we can see how the name of Jesus came to be, which it is a transliterated name, but that is still due to different language barriers. And GDD in Greek the name is Iesous...And are you saying that because our bible (the KJV) tells us that his name was to be called Jesus, that his name was actually Jesus from the womb? Now we do realize that the KJV is a version, and some things were translated to fit in the English venacular. That's why we have the strong's and other study tools to let us know what the original texts said so that we can have a better understanding of the passages. Now because he was born hebrew I do believe that his name most likely was Yeshua. Now when some messianic jews pray in the name of Yeshua is that not powerful as well. Even though I dont agree with the doctrine and teaching of the "Hebrew Israelites" I will say we cant be afraid of receiving new information that's different from our circle of knowledge and practices. And to be honest it will tell you in some bibles that some things were added or not recorded in the KJV that are in other texts.
Even the scriptures that you quoted they are the King James Version. I hope you see where im coming from.

[auneeqsol]

Now I do not believe that God wishes to divide the nations. There is scripture telling us what his plan is in the last days. Zeph 3:8

And furthermore I do not believe that there is a seed of Satan in the earth in the form of another nation of ppl, and that white ppl are the evil seed of Cain.

I believe that there was a purpose in the different nations. We all have contributed to the purpose of mankind being in the earth. I dont believe that God looks at us any different. I do believe that his chosen ppl whether they be the ppl of color,scattered throughout the nations or the jews over in the middle east (which there was study showing we shared a distinct measure of DNA with one another ...duh...we all came from the same two ppl)
were chosen to show the spiritual aspect of God. It goes back to Ham Shem and Japheth. In each branch, you see the ppl making great contributions to the world. I believe we all have a purpose for being. But the Hebrew Israelite church says every other nation must come through us to be saved because we were given the original instructions from God or Yahweh.

[giantsdodie]

And GDD in Greek the name is Iesous...And are you saying that because our bible (the KJV) tells us that his name was to be called Jesus, that his name was actually Jesus from the womb? Now we do realize that the KJV is a version, and some things were translated to fit in the English venacular. That's why we have the strong's and other study tools to let us know what the original texts said so that we can have a better understanding of the passages. Now because he was born hebrew I do believe that his name most likely was Yeshua.

Amd thats where I have a problem. Assuming that because he was a Jew he was most likely named Yeshua. The Bible doesnt say this. The closest english translation to the name Yeshua is actually the name Joshua. Joshua literally means ' God's Salvation'. But his name is NEVER translated as JOSHUA in the English.

This why I KEEP pointing out that to assume a name based on racial background is supposition at best and complete error at worst and in all honesty it leans more toward the latter.

Lets recognize this. JESUS wasnt named by Mary.. or Joseph. HE was name by THE FATHER HIMSELF. See how they keep trying to introduce a human element into the naming of Jesus.. Well he was a Jew so he probably really had a Jewish name because his mother was Jewish and his father was Jewish...

but THEY DIDNT NAME HIM !!!!

Matthew 1: 21-25 The angel told them what to call Him.

You can be Hispanic and your name FROM THE WOMB is JOHN... It doesnt mean that his name was actually JUAN because he is Hispanic.

Ask yourself this question.. Why that attack on the name of JESUS. Why are you being told that the name JESUS is false and wrong and has no power ?

Because there is a SPIRIT involved people. Its called the spirit of anti christ and it seeks to UNDERMINE the name of JESUS.

Anyone having this debate over Matthew He was a Jew.. any debate of his name.. nope.. Peter ? any debate over his name ?? he was a Jew.. nope... not at all.. why..

Because GOD did not give all power and authority to the name of Matthew or Peter..

I dont listen to ONE WORD these people say. A little leaven spoils THE WHOLE LOAF....

[giantsdodie]

I use the KJV and the Amplified when I quote texts because in all my reading and all my study I have found them to be extremely accurate and very reliable. If people really understood how we got the KJV Bible, they would understand why its considered one of the best translations. There are other versions but I prefer not to use them I will never use the NIV for example.

But I am not surprised because it is common for people who expouse error like the Hebrew Israelites to attack the Word of God as well as attack the name of GOD.

Never look to those that expouse error to reveal truth. Thats like having a bible study with the devil.