Can salvation be lost?Are we trying to make it in?

[giantsdodie]

Nov 21, 2008 16:43:02 GMT -5 @true said:

Dec 7, 2007 8:59:03 GMT -5 giantsdodie said:

The real question is after being saved can one walk out from under the grace of God for Salvayion and return to a lifestyle of sin which would without repentance ultimately lead to a persons destruction..

That answer is yes..

I don't think we can walk out of Gods grace. where sin abounds grace abounds much more. I think we can abuse Gods grace. But it's always there..

True the problem is that Grace give us the opportunity to get things right with GOD and the opportunity to repent. If we do not take the opportunity then THAT sin is not covered under the blood which then leads a person to destruction.

Thats the problem with the Once saved Always Saved doctrine. It absolves the person from the responsibility to live Holy.

[giantsdodie]

Nov 21, 2008 16:40:21 GMT -5 @true said:

I am just going off the title, I have NOT read the entire thread.

But I don't think salvation can be lost because it is a free gift from God. We can sometimes not recognize that we are ALL entitled to salvation no matter who you are or where you are in the world. Something that is ALWAYS there can never be lost or taken away. No matter who you are or what you may have done salvation is always there . It cannot be earned not bought it just is... (through Christ Jesus).

Yet we can be entitled to something and never walk in it, never have access to it and never understand it at all.

I always point people to the story of the Prodigal Son...

11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

14A nd when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

Now the son basically said give me my inheritance. Salvation is our inheritance as SONS of the Father.

Yet this son went out into the WORLD and SQUANDERED his inheritance until there was NOTHING left

15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.

17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

The son had to come to REPENTANCE and acknowledgement of his SIN and HUMBLE himself again. And then He made a CONCIOUS choice and effort to RETURN to His Father.

Notice the father didnt come get him when he wasted his inheritance, nor did he come rescue him out of the pigpen. It was AFTER the son repented, humbled himself and sought to restore fellowship with THE FATHER.. that THE FATHER then met him and had compassion on him.

21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Was the son dead ? No... did he physically leave this plane of existance ?? No.. he was very much alive.. but to the FATHER he was dead... what is death.. separation from GOD.. how do we become separated from GOD.. because of our SIN...

It was after the son returned home that the son was RESTORED and placed in position again....

[krazeeboi]

Nov 21, 2008 18:34:06 GMT -5 giantsdodie said:

Thats the problem with the Once saved Always Saved doctrine. It absolves the person from the responsibility to live Holy.

That's a gross mischaracterization and the reason why more performance-oriented groups, like Pentecostals, so vehemently reject the doctrine (technically called the preservation or perseverance of the saints). The doctrine teaches that the lack of a pursuit of holiness is a sign that the person may not have been saved to begin with.

[true]

Nov 21, 2008 18:43:36 GMT -5 giantsdodie said:

Nov 21, 2008 16:40:21 GMT -5 @true said:

I am just going off the title, I have NOT read the entire thread.

But I don't think salvation can be lost because it is a free gift from God. We can sometimes not recognize that we are ALL entitled to salvation no matter who you are or where you are in the world. Something that is ALWAYS there can never be lost or taken away. No matter who you are or what you may have done salvation is always there . It cannot be earned not bought it just is... (through Christ Jesus).

Yet we can be entitled to something and never walk in it, never have access to it and never understand it at all.

I always point people to the story of the Prodigal Son...

11 And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

14A nd when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

Now the son basically said give me my inheritance. Salvation is our inheritance as SONS of the Father.

Yet this son went out into the WORLD and SQUANDERED his inheritance until there was NOTHING left

15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.

17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

The son had to come to REPENTANCE and acknowledgement of his SIN and HUMBLE himself again. And then He made a CONCIOUS choice and effort to RETURN to His Father.

Notice the father didnt come get him when he wasted his inheritance, nor did he come rescue him out of the pigpen. It was AFTER the son repented, humbled himself and sought to restore fellowship with THE FATHER.. that THE FATHER then met him and had compassion on him.

21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Was the son dead ? No... did he physically leave this plane of existance ?? No.. he was very much alive.. but to the FATHER he was dead... what is death.. separation from GOD.. how do we become separated from GOD.. because of our SIN...

It was after the son returned home that the son was RESTORED and placed in position again....

Perfect example, this was right on target .

[auneeqsol]

So in view of these past posts..

Can a person have struggles with sin and still be saved?

I mean for years?

I have heard so many testimonies of that, but then deliverance took place years later and they have grown from those struggles.

What constitutes a person having confessed Christ, (receive salvation) was baptized and begin to walk the christian way for years but just say a very tragic death happens in their immediate family, and they sort of lose a bit of faith so to speak, devestated by the tragedy, and they are no longer operating in the place that they were once in...

Did they backslide? Or are they going through a time of testing?