Over Spiritualizing Marriage???

[kitty]

Hello Saints,

The Juanita Bynum situation brought up a topic to mind that I have been wanting to discuss with other Christians for quite some time.
Now before we get started I will start off with a statement that Giants made in the other topic. That God doesn't overspiritual anything... And I agree with that statement.

But have we as Christians started to over spiritualize marriage in a way that God never intended? Are we at the point of believing that God works in the supernatural only? Even though he created both worlds?

For example... I know that God does indeed place specific people in marriage together. We have Adam and Eve as a biblical example as well as the personal testimonies of Nikkol and Giants on this board. But does that mean that God will place everyone together that way?

What about those who may be mature adults that are steady in their walk with honoring God and praising Him but not receiving a particular word on God about marriage? If they meet another nice Christian, decide to court, receive mentoring and counseling from their pastor, marry and have a successful and fruitful marriage... Are we at the point of saying that they weren't put together by God because neither received a prophesy?

Has it become "en vogue" to say that , "God said..... is my husband?"

And what about these other odd terms that are floating around out there such as, " Give birth to you husband... birth out your destiny." What the heck does that mean?

What are your thoughts Saints?


Kitty

[giantsdodie]

Proverbs 3

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Who said anything about receiving a prophecy??

How about God simply telling YOU, Yes this is for you or NO its not for you.

You caould be mature, receive mentroing and counselling and still not have all the insight to the MOST BINDING COVENANT that can be made on this earth man to man. No other Covenant do you become ONE flesh with anyone.

You better believe I want GOD's instruction on that just like I do with everything else in my life.

God makes His will for our lives known. The problem is that we dont seek His will OR we are too impatient to wait for revelation and CONFIRMATION.

And that is my 5 minute rant.

[livinganewlife]

Kitty,

I must respond to this as I am the one who brought up the situations where many of my girlfriends “over spiritualized” the selection process of their mates.

I believe that we (Christians) have over spiritualized the marriage process and have made it to difficult and to unrealistic to obtain…..

It is great that two people can worship together, speak in tongues together and get all caught up in the 3rd heavens together….but we are not spiritual people 100% of the time…… I know of several situations and one in particular that I am going to speak of because this situation really sticks out to me…….

My cousin (girlfriend) meets a guy at church……he is very handsome, well spoken, well educated and is a very committed deep brother so it seems….he attended college in our home town and decided to stay there….one day he found his way to this church which is a very upbeat, young congregants COGIC…..He enjoys service there and joins the church…..one day he and my cousin are on the alter for prayer and the Pastor say grab your neighbor by the hand and pray for them…Well he prays for her and she prays for him and they both fall out under the anointing once they embrace….Knew it must be sent from God…..after service they talk, go out to eat and decide that the alter experience was a sign from God and that they must be made for each other….the go on a 3 week fast together asking God what did the prayer mean for the both of them. At the end of the 3 week fast they both determined that the answer from God is that they should get married…….

They get married have a “Pentecostal” moving wedding very similar to Bynum’s, the bridal party is shouting, crying, going forth in tongues and blessing this ceremony……..my spirit wasn’t at ease……So to wrap this up the grooms family were members of a witchcraft cult in New Orleans (his mom was like a priestess) and he still practiced this Wicca culture…..this guy beats my cousin for almost two years he has all of the spiritual prophecies regarding their destiny and ministry…In the meantime they produce two beautiful children….and every time they would have sex he claimed the Lord was showing him all the men she had slept with (he could see their faces) and would terrorize this girl for days over these revelations he would have during sex…..One time he visualized that my cousin was sleeping with the Pastor of the church and she confessed that the Pastor of this church had been raping her for over a year…… Now this gets real crazy……..but to cut this story short…my cousin was one of these girls who followed Bynum and thought she was going to be the next Bynum and she practiced all of this birth out a man principles, will the real women of God stand up standards, no more sheets and ended up in a mess by over spiritualizing her marriage….. Not once did she and her husband date, take the time to know each other or anything they just prayed got caught up in the hype and married…….

And I have more stories…….which is why I hope this situation sheds light on the body of Christ that we need to wake up and not be tossed with every wind and doctrine…..these leaders are going to have to give an account for the mess they have created in peoples lives……

[livinganewlife]

giantsdodie said:

Proverbs 3

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Who said anything about receiving a prophecy??

How about God simply telling YOU, Yes this is for you or NO its not for you.

You caould be mature, receive mentroing and counselling and still not have all the insight to the MOST BINDING COVENANT that can be made on this earth man to man. No other Covenant do you become ONE flesh with anyone.

You better believe I want GOD's instruction on that just like I do with everything else in my life.

God makes His will for our lives known. The problem is that we dont seek His will OR we are too impatient to wait for revelation and CONFIRMATION.

And that is my 5 minute rant.

GDD, I know you think realistically; take the Bible logically and are a very straightforward brother; however in reality there are people in this world who has taken this marriage selection a little bit to far…….

For me I prayed and asked the Lord about my husband several times, God did not directly speak to me saying “Lisa this is your husband”……instead God showed me himself through my husband…..before we were married my husband possessed the Christ characteristics that I longed for in a mate….and on the natural side my husband displayed the qualities I would want in a good mate…..All in all God gave me natural desires that I require in a mate and guess what God created a man that possessed the natural and spiritual characteristics that I wanted in a husband…..and beyond that I fell in love with my husband and I love him and want to be here for him….

Now do we have issues yes! Are there sacrifices and compromises that I don’t want to submit to YES…… I said earlier if someone would have asked me are you willing to make the sacrifices I have made for my husband and his ministry… I promised; me would have probably rethunk this… I understand these sacrifices are helping me grow and I do see the big picture and am content in knowing that this is God plan for my life….

[anointedteacher]

Livinganewlife, it is not the leaders fault.... it is the couple... I have seen leader telling couple before they get marry, you are not ready, he is not right for you, you should wait. they would get marry against the pastor, parents, sisters, brothers, aunt and uncles wishes. If the pastor decide not to do the wedding, they will fine someone to do it. Three of my college friends got marry, even after being told to wait, the person not right, it won't last... they got marry anyway. Two of them marriage didn't last a year. The other one got beaten half way to death, and didn't divorce till after her four baby. This man beat her real bad when she was eight month pregnant with her second baby.

It look like your cousin didn't do any investigation on the background of this man.... It seem he have a strong religious spirit. These people do not hear God speaking, they hear the flesh telling them I want to get marry, I want a husband or I want a wife, I want legal sex .... I don't want to be alone any more, I need someone to talk to, I don't want to wait, I'm getting old, I want a family etc... When God do speak, they call it the devil.

AT

[livinganewlife]

anointedteacher said:

Livinganewlife, it is not the leaders fault.... it is the couple... I have seen leader telling couple before they get marry, you are not ready, he is not right for you, you should wait. they would get marry against the pastor, parents, sisters, brothers, aunt and uncles wishes. If the pastor decide not to do the wedding, they will fine someone to do it. Three of my college friends got marry, even after being told to wait, the person not right, it won't last... they got marry anyway. AT

If the Pastor is telling them to wait or seek God that is one thing and to clarify I mean these leaders who are spewing out these false doctrines that people are buying into because folk (baby saints and mature saints alike) believe that you are a man or woman who hears from God......

God has not told ANY full grown woman to BIRTH out a HUSBAND..... women birth out babies needing guidance and development not full grown men needing development.....

That concept is not in accordance to Nature even Jesus came through the womb of a womb and went through the natural birthing process.....

[anointedteacher]

Ok.... I never heard of Birth out a Husband.... I know I heard of giving birth to ministry and giving birth to prophecy, but a husband, that's new to me. These women need to stop being so desperate and know what they are getting into. They need to question those word that don't line up with the scripture, don't care who it came from.

[giantsdodie]

I am not even going to comment on that Birth out a Husband issue because I didnt hear the word that was said, nor do i know the context in which it was said enough to judge whether it is God or not.

Kitty sorry to hear about your cousin but reading the story itself made me question whether your cousin has a track record of hearing God accurately.

I had an issue with several things.

1) Why are they embracing in the first place

2) When they both fall out " under the spirit " who is ministering ?? Who is in control ??

3) Why did they take that as sign they should be married ?? What led them to that conclusion ?? Why are they even seeking a sign. We as the saint of God shouldnt seek signs. We should seek His Will

4) When they did this three week fast together, did they alert their leadership. Did anoyone with a PROVEN track record of hearing God accurately who was her spiritual covering get involved at all ??

5) You said they both determined that God said they should get married. Well I have to ask then, where was the confirmation of what GOD said, The Bible says clearly out of the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established. In the multitude of council there is safety. Who was the counsel ? Exactly how did God reveal. Did he speak ?? did he reveal through His word ?? Was that revealed word confirmed through at least TWO other sources

The fact that all that crazy stuff happened and the fact he is involved with witchraft just tells me flat out that she DIDNT hear God. Period.

And that aint God;s fault and it not because of so called " overspiritualization". Anything that is TRULY Spiritual will reveal the TRUTH of GOD and HIS Will.

Living all I will say in your case is that you already got the answer you were seeking. Maybe God didnt speak to you in an audible voice but as you said He revealed HIMSELF and you KNEW it was GOD revealing HIMSELF.

You had the revelation of God TRUTH which is simply God speaking.

Saints need to stop relying on other people to hear God for them and learn to hear God for THEMSELVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jasmine]

Ok I sorta answered this on the jbm post. so I will post it here.

Here goes


Also i wanted to add.

I know some couples who have really loving and healthy marriages, except they lack a relationship with God. They know how to respect each other, they know how to communicate, spend time with one another and so forth. YEt they do not have a personal relationship with God. Once they get there, they will be able to make a lasting mark.

Why this was posted. I positive they didn't seek God regarding who to marry. But their relationship is filled with love, and will only be magnified when they get to know Jesus.

[krazeeboi]

Livinganewlife, I think your experience is the norm. Personally, I believe we have a bit of liberty when it comes to selecting a mate. I don't believe that there is this only one unique woman out there that God created just for me and this if I marry someone other than her, I will be miserable and out of God's will for the rest of my life. That's not Bible. Firstly, as a man, the physical will jump out at me first. Then as I get to know her, I can then size her up spiritually and mentally. I have the Holy Spirit which serves as an inward guide and witness, and of course, I would pray and seek God's direction on it. I would absolutely not expect God to directly tell me that that's who I should marry (although He can do that, which I don't deny), but I believe that if she meets the spiritual qualifications and other qualifications specific to me and where I am and where I'm going, that makes her a valid candidate.

[giantsdodie]

Krazee the key however is to seek God regarding our decisions. Now I am a person who God revealed His wife through somewhat unusual circumstances (however for me thats the norm, God tends to do that in my life).

However I dont expect that God will work the same way through everyone, however the KEY is to seek God because God knows far more than I do. God knows my future, and his plan for my life. God knows her future and his plan for her life. God knows this for the next five years, ten years, twenty five years, So ultimately GOD is a far better judge of whether it will work than I am.

I have found that many people seem to be concerned that GOD is ignorant of our natural needs and desire. I believe (and it is founded based on talking toa greta many people) that we think God will give us someone who is " all spiritual" and ugly, or "all spiritual" who doesnt meet any of our natural needs. That simply doesnt make sense since He is the God who supplies ALL our needs and He is able to do exceedingly and abundantly above all we can ask or think.

The other issue I see is where people who have little to no track record of hearing God accurately about the every day decisions in their lives have these totally clear and perfect revelations of who they are are to marry or they receive some "prophetic" word regarding the situation and they move with all haste WITHOUT getting more clarity or further confirmation.

Also people enter into marriage without disussing things like vision, purpose, destiny, background and upbringing. I see all the this stuff with women wanting to do background checks on men but these same women cant " bust a spiritual grape". I got all the background check I need. His name is Holy Ghost. He knows all things.

I will give a classic example. I have a good friend of mine who had been saved 16 years and still hadn't met his wife. Yet he was busy doing the will of God. Well he moved to a new town and found a church closer to where he lived. There he worked in the church and joined a committee and worked with a few memebers and developed a friendship with a woman of God on the commitee. She had many of the characteristics that he desired in a wife and began to seek the Lord regarding the situation and God told he that she was his wife ( he didnt know at the time that she was seeking the Lord about the same thing )

He told a good mutual friend ( who he knows hears God ) and he met the woman and was like. Yo I think thats your wife.

He called me and asked me to pray about this situation and I prayed. While praying God showed me a tall light skinned woman with medium length hair, worshipping and wearing a tan pants business suit.

Little did I know that Tuesday prior when our mutual friend met her she was wearing a tan pants business suit and she is on the praise and worship dance team. When I met her a few weeks later she looked exactly like the person God had showed me in the dream.

He spoke with the woman and told her that he believed it was time to take their relationship from the brother and sister level into a courtship. She had been praying and God was speaking to her and she agreed.

They then went and spoke with their Pastor and their pastor prayed about it and agreed that was the will of God for both of them.

The main point about everything I am sharing...

GOD was in the process ALL ALONG...

[Jasmine]

I believe that GOD is always in the process, even when we assume or feel that he isn't.

[Beulah5]

I believe that the key to everything in this life is relationship. Over the years as i grow in the lord i realise that if i do not pursue intimacy with the lord and His will for my life then i am not going to be of use to myself my husband or any relations He puts around me.

One day i was in church and they were asking for people who wanted to receive some anointing to go forward as i was going the lord nailed me to the floor and stuck me there-He said to me : I am snapping independence out of you i want you to see that without me you can do nothing and that i want to be involved in every aspect, every minute, every decision i want to be foremost.

Saints after that i tried to get up but was stuck to the floor. I could not move-God had paralysed me there i was so broken for a week i could not stop weeping when God began to show me that to think that i could make choices or do anything without an absolute dependency on Him was my own arrogant conceited heart.

He showed me that i could do nothing without Him and i could also do nothing without the body of Christ.

He alone knows the way that we take and to be honest i am so scared of the mess i am capable of making that i want Him to be the decision driver.

Now i am aware that we are all different but what i believe is being shared here but coming out in different places is : relationship. A deep intimate relationship with Jesus where knowing Him and doing His will are paramount in our lives and so in our everyday activities we have an ear to Him.

Also if u know Him then u will know what ur destiny is and u will also know what kind of marriage or mate He will have for u because there is purpose for our lives, purpose for our marriages, purpose for our relationships.

If we truly believe that we are not our own and that we have been purchased for a price then we will understand God's need to have us available as witnesses be it on ur block, where u work, the families we marry into, the churches we attend down to the schools that our children attend so we cannot just make any decision about who we marry.

Relationship with Jesus is a living active relationship stronger than any covenant where His opinion on everything that we do counts not only to us but also to Him for that is why He came and died. Now if u are in this deep place and start and end ur day with Him then whether He speaks to you directly or arranges circumstances to fit His will that is ok because He has free rein in your life.

Also everything that God says will line up and there is always the test of character and people that God has put in our lives. Sometimes the people that we think are going to be our blessing do not come the way we expect but God who alone sees and knows the road ahead is the only one we can lean on, and He alone knows what our future can be.

A lot of people because of this lack of relationship do not realise what their own calling is not to speak of that of their marriage. If you know that God has called you to be a missionary to New Guinea u would know that when He brings u a mate that will fit in.

If u know that God's plan for u and ur spouse is so u can be a witness on a certain block then u will realise why u need to know what His purpose is. Marriage is purposeful and when people get married just because they are lonely and want sex and someone to go dancing with after a while the whole thing will begin to get stale because there is no over all purpose driving it.

The best marriages i have seen even in people who are not believers but have somehow gathered that they have come together to accomplish a common good for mankind are the strongest ones.

In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct ur paths- even stronger for me: In all things that He may have the pre eminence

[keita]

OH, THANK YOU, FATHER!

BLESS YOUR NAME, JESUS!

Sista FREEBEEEEE!

Thank you SO MUCH for coming in and leaving THAT WORD!
It just speaks LIFE!


Because our GOD is SPIRIT, I'm not sure it's really even possible to "overspiritualize" marriage. I say that because marriage is a relationship which is, and is intended to express, the very heart of GOD, HIMSELF, toward His people. But, so much of the time, it's our desiring/trying/learning/pressing to live in and from that TRUTH that messes us up, whatever our earthly marital status may be , ! For me, what you said just speaks so well and lovingly to that journey.

I believe that Christ is wooing HIS BRIDE to HIMSELF, and that's the MARRIAGE that's always on HIS MIND.

OH GOD, I LOVE HIM SO!

I believe that the earthly marriages, of we who are HIS BODY, are primarily intended by GOD to be the best images of HIS LOVE in this life and on this earth.

And I believe that GOD is willing to go to whatever lengths, by whatever means necessary, to bring that about.

Especially NOW.

I am just enjoying seeing all those wedding shows on TV, LOL! We're having all types of "weddings" but GOD is (re)making, shaking... and breaking marriage.

[ybrown]

Sister B, that was a word from God. Thank you.

keita said:

Because our GOD is SPIRIT, I'm not sure it's really even possible to "overspiritualize" marriage.

Amen, Keita.