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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Jul 21, 2009 6:13:09 GMT -5
For the sake of curiosity Nikkol, if for some reason your husband needed to step down as pastor of your church, are you next in line for the position? NO... she will let Minister Takeover to come in and destroy everything her husband worked so hard to accomplished. And the minister will make his wife co-pastor and kick them out the church  AT that was hitting below the belt. Even if it was a joke. |
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 21, 2009 6:51:16 GMT -5
There's a difference between women preachers and women pastors. I don't think that anyone was arguing the former..... At the same time, with a church of that size, are you (general) going to say that there were no other elders/ministers in the church that they had to look outside the ministry? Granted, that could be true....but this would be the first big church that I knew of with only one person being licensed or ordained. For the sake of curiosity Nikkol, if for some reason your husband needed to step down as pastor of your church, are you next in line for the position? No. I'm licensed.....not ordained. Nor do I feel that God is calling me to pastorship. Esp. if my husband isn't there. I don't believe that just because my husband was called that means that I am as well. That's where a many churches get messed up. And if I "step up" and that wasn't what I was called to, even if lives are changed, etc. I still believe that I'm operating in the spirit of disobedience. And that is sin. |
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 21, 2009 7:02:39 GMT -5
Not here to argue. I don't think that women can't pastor. However, they should still have a man over them. There are many women who are youth pastors and in lining up with scripture, we can find how women teach children as well as the younger women. But the paragraph from your post that stood out to me was this:
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Granted a minister is a licensed position (not an ordained position meaning they can't perform funerals and weddings). But if you have a ministry team that there's a lack of trust around, this is an even worse situation than before. When you have to go outside your local body of ppl that have stayed the test of time through ALL that was going on......... yet these ppl may be asst. pastors or elders........(Side Note: Just went to the website and there's no list of any ministers, etc. So maybe that was the only thing he could think of to do......)
But I thought that we all agreed that based on the lack of numbers and income coming in, they brought Paula back to help to bring the church back to it's needed "numbers".......right?
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Jul 21, 2009 9:47:35 GMT -5
And if I "step up" and that wasn't what I was called to, even if lives are changed, etc. I still believe that I'm operating in the spirit of disobedience. And that is sin. Maybe this deserves a separate thread but I believe this is where people get messed up. Not just with women pastors, but with many things God didn't ordain. Because people are blessed, lives are changed, souls are saved, people think "it MUST be of God". But what about Matthew 7:21-23 where Jesus himself said "Not every who says unto me Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but only he that does the will of my father who is in heaven. MANY shall say unto me in that day, Lord Lord did we not prophesy in they name and cast out devils in thy name and perform many miracles in thy name, And I will say unto them, Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you." The word of God in and of itself is anointed, blessed and powerful. "In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. The word became flesh and dwelt among men. So the word is powerful all by itself. This is why many who should not be behind a pulpit (for any number of reasons) as well as those in the pews, think God must be in the midst because their ministry is so blessed, when that is not the case at all. |
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 21, 2009 10:24:19 GMT -5
And if I "step up" and that wasn't what I was called to, even if lives are changed, etc. I still believe that I'm operating in the spirit of disobedience. And that is sin. Maybe this deserves a separate thread but I believe this is where people get messed up. Not just with women pastors, but with many things God didn't ordain. Because people are blessed, lives are changed, souls are saved, people think "it MUST be of God". But what about Matthew 7:21-23 where Jesus himself said "Not every who says unto me Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but only he that does the will of my father who is in heaven. MANY shall say unto me in that day, Lord Lord did we not prophesy in they name and cast out devils in thy name and perform many miracles in thy name, And I will say unto them, Depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you." The word of God in and of itself is anointed, blessed and powerful. "In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. The word became flesh and dwelt among men. So the word is powerful all by itself. This is why many who should not be behind a pulpit (for any number of reasons) as well as those in the pews, think God must be in the midst because their ministry is so blessed, when that is not the case at all. Very ture.... reminds me of the story of Samson. We talk much about how he killed more ppl at the end of his life than before.....but we forget that he still committed suicide...... |
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Jul 21, 2009 10:39:00 GMT -5
Very ture.... reminds me of the story of Samson. We talk much about how he killed more ppl at the end of his life than before.....but we forget that he still committed suicide...... To which many of those same people would say, "the greater and good works in a man's life far outweigh (and even make up for)one sinful indiscretion". To which I respond: "NOT!" |
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Post by kanyon on Jul 21, 2009 11:56:54 GMT -5
Probably deserves its own thread, but I ask, is suicide the unpardonable sin?
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Post by anointedteacher on Jul 21, 2009 12:39:34 GMT -5
NO... she will let Minister Takeover to come in and destroy everything her husband worked so hard to accomplished. And the minister will make his wife co-pastor and kick them out the church AT that was hitting below the belt. Even if it was a joke. This is what I have been seeing.... it happen to my church twice... It is hard to find a true man or woman of God who will not cause the church to split. IF the wife IS NOT called to pastor, she should fill-in as a active pastor still God send the right person... God will give that woman the grace and anointing to carry it out till He place a pastor in that position (He does that to many missionaries in foreign countries)... plus give the wife the strength, wisdom and knowledge to overseer that work (not control)so the vision will be fulfilled. I know some don't believe in woman pastor... fine... but for those who do... If the wife called to pastor, should pastor... |
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Post by anointedteacher on Jul 21, 2009 12:55:51 GMT -5
For the sake of curiosity Nikkol, if for some reason your husband needed to step down as pastor of your church, are you next in line for the position? No. I'm licensed.....not ordained. Nor do I feel that God is calling me to pastorship. Esp. if my husband isn't there. I don't believe that just because my husband was called that means that I am as well. That's where a many churches get messed up. And if I "step up" and that wasn't what I was called to, even if lives are changed, etc. I still believe that I'm operating in the spirit of disobedience. And that is sin. You are right... if that not what you are called to do.... But if your husband have to take a leave for a season, nothing wrong with filling in the gap for that season.... There more to pastoring than preaching and teaching at the pulpit. There are adminstration, finance, counselling, overseer department chairs, delegating ministers and laypeople in position etc... Putting someone who may not have the love and compassion over so much work can be dangerous... PPl are funny, I don't care how anointed they are, they will change up on you... They start out fine... later when they realize that almost all the congregation like them and tell them how anointed they are and how great the teach... they will change up on you.... and it can be your best friend and prayer partner. |
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 21, 2009 14:01:06 GMT -5
That isn't correct to do. Missionaries do operate as pastors but in the mission field. This is why missionaries can start churches, etc. You don't just "fill in" as a pastor. You have to be CALLED into pastorship. I am a firm believer that God will send the appropriate person for the job if they aren't already in the church. I take ministry very seriously and unless God calls me to do it, I wouldn't do it because that means I've stopped acknowledging God and I have now started directing my OWN path.
The job of the pastor is oversight. If I haven't been called to that, I wouldn't want to operate in that function. Ppl may change. But God doesn't and whoever takes over should operate with love/compassion. I will be the first to admit that my husband TRULY has a pastor's heart..... Right now, that's not me. But I know what God has called me to do and I do that. Honestly, you can't just put a wife in charge because truth be told, she may not have love and compassion or will change as well. This is why it must be God appointed. What you described could be for ANYONE.
Side Note: Now for me, this totally is not something that I would have to go through like Paula and Randy. If for some reason my husband and I would no longer be together (ie separation or divorce), my husband would step down because that isn't what we want to teach the people. Nor is that the ministry that God called us to have. It takes a lot to be able to admit your faults and to step down accordingly. Many ppl may not agree, which is fine. But I believe you have to follow God, no matter what.
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Post by krazeeboi on Jul 21, 2009 14:01:55 GMT -5
I'm not so sure if the Samson example really applies here, especially since he gets a mention in Hebrews 11.
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Post by kitty on Jul 21, 2009 22:41:10 GMT -5
Nikkol,
I know it's not often... But I agree with your 100%!
There are just some professions in the world where there may come a time that one has to "step down". When one is over whelmed, tired, not meeting the needs of the people, possible causing harm to the people they are supposed to serve... Then it's time to stop. And if not forever then certainly for minute until the person can be 100% functioning....
I really don't agree with the idea that once a person is a pastor then.... No matter what...no matter how off based they get...then they are still supposed to be act as a Pastor. It's like this... as a Nursing student.. I get a drug test ever year...Because no matter how well i may know a subject. If I'm on drug I will do harm to my patients.... if I fail the drug test... I don't see patients... The same ideas should apply to those over a church.
Kitty
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 22, 2009 6:58:15 GMT -5
Nikkol, I know it's not often... But I agree with your 100%! There are just some professions in the world where there may come a time that one has to "step down". When one is over whelmed, tired, not meeting the needs of the people, possible causing harm to the people they are supposed to serve... Then it's time to stop. And if not forever then certainly for minute until the person can be 100% functioning.... I really don't agree with the idea that once a person is a pastor then.... No matter what...no matter how off based they get...then they are still supposed to be act as a Pastor. It's like this... as a Nursing student.. I get a drug test ever year...Because no matter how well i may know a subject. If I'm on drug I will do harm to my patients.... if I fail the drug test... I don't see patients... The same ideas should apply to those over a church. Kitty <<passed out>> |
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Post by Rachel2 on Jul 22, 2009 10:49:10 GMT -5
Nikkol, I guess you are about to "pass out" again, because like Kitty said, we don't agree on much, but I have to agree with you here.
My Pastor also has a Pastor's HEART. His wife is an excellent preacher but she does not have the heart of a pastor. She is too impatient and could be more tactful in many situations. The point is I don't believe God has called her to the office of Pastor. I am still trying to figure out when it became so fashionable for the First Lady to become co-pastor of many churches.
I have seen ministries where the husband died and the wife took over as pastor and the ministry stopped flourishing. And I believe it is because the wife was not meant to be pastor.
I believe AT mentioned somebody else coming in and taking over all of your hard work and what you have built, well the fact of the matter is, the work belongs to God, not the pastor or his wife. I think this is where many ministries get off track. Which leads into my next point. I don't believe that people should name ministries after themselves. The ministry is not yours, it is Gods' and putting your name on it often times make you think it belongs to you which eventually leads to you being out of the will of God by trying to "keep the ministry in the family".
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 22, 2009 12:38:25 GMT -5
Nikkol, I guess you are about to "pass out" again, because like Kitty said, we don't agree on much, but I have to agree with you here. My Pastor also has a Pastor's HEART. His wife is an excellent preacher but she does not have the heart of a pastor. She is too impatient and could be more tactful in many situations. The point is I don't believe God has called her to the office of Pastor. I am still trying to figure out when it became so fashionable for the First Lady to become co-pastor of many churches. I have seen ministries where the husband died and the wife took over as pastor and the ministry stopped flourishing. And I believe it is because the wife was not meant to be pastor. I believe AT mentioned somebody else coming in and taking over all of your hard work and what you have built, well the fact of the matter is, the work belongs to God, not the pastor or his wife. I think this is where many ministries get off track. Which leads into my next point. I don't believe that people should name ministries after themselves. The ministry is not yours, it is Gods' and putting your name on it often times make you think it belongs to you which eventually leads to you being out of the will of God by trying to "keep the ministry in the family". <<PASSED OUT AGAIN>> LOL. Makes sense to me. |
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