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Post by auneeqsol on Dec 21, 2006 9:05:13 GMT -5
Why invite someone to explain something that is totally false and heretical ?? Why give the spirit of error room and liscence to spread its venom  I understand why you feel that way, but it hasnt just been a clean sweep of truth on here either. There has been views that were not the word, that were traditon of men, that were opinions and so forth ........ I'm not excusing his views as truth or anything, but I see a lot of that even on here and in churches everywhere. People say they love the lord and teaching and preaching something thats not even the word, and they have good intentions as well, some dont mean any harm. But they are teaching man-made doctrine using the scriptures, and teaching false views not even backed by the scriptures or used with scripture out of context to present a totally different view and meaning thats not even what God intended, and thats not cool, but ppl do it everyday and like I said even on here. And the danger of it is that ppl leave confused and perplexed on what God really asks of us, and what his word is really teaching. I mean our everyday apostolics, holiness, pentecostal, COGIC and who ever else. They are the ones doing this kind of stuff and when someone doesnt agree according to the word now, they either excommunicate them, or they bash them or they get preached on ...lol But my point is that inviting him on here (IMO) will be no more daring than ppl sharing their views and doctrine calling it gospel and its not even supported by scripture ( in its proper context). I would be interested in hearing what he has to say and how he can relate scripture to it. You'll never know what it might do for him. You'll never know. Anything is possible. And if one knows they are not spiritually mature or sound in the word of God then they shouldnt visit that particular message board. They might need to keep themselves shielded. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Dec 22, 2006 9:24:04 GMT -5
You guys can do what you want. The man is off. I pray he comes back to the fold. He sat before the council of bishops ( which someone I know happens to be a part of ) to discuss his newfound beliefs and dissussed scripture before 300 bishops from all over the world and each one of them said his doctrine was heretical and against the bible.
Any message board has a responsibility to defend the gospel and uphold the truth not give a platform for the spirit of error to possibly mislead and seduce people away from the faith.
If 300 of the worlds leading bishops and many of his close personal friends cannot persuade him I seriously doubt anyone here can either.
His doctrine states simply this. everyone is eventually going to heaven, there is no hell, and that even muslims who worship a false god will get to heaven.
Give the devil NO place...
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Post by auneeqsol on Dec 22, 2006 10:04:29 GMT -5
LOL I hear ya loud and clear GDD!!
Im still interested in his hypothesis on the matter though.
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Post by giantsdodie on Dec 22, 2006 17:11:43 GMT -5
Then might I suggest that you let your fingers do the walking and find his erroneous doctrine on his website and go read it yourself. Why needlessly expose people to a spirit of error to satisfy a sense of curiosity ??
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Grace
Full Member
Posts: 186
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Post by Grace on Jan 7, 2007 22:17:19 GMT -5
We had him come and speak at our church years back when he first started speaking on the subject. I heard him and some of it was interesting but it was not sound in the respect that alot of it was not connecting biblically. i continue to pray that he come back to the truth. Even hearing him discuss on Date line and hearing him say that Hell was not a physical place but a state of mind. All day long the Bible talks about hell being a place.
Lord help him.
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Post by keita on Feb 28, 2007 19:34:28 GMT -5
Then might I suggest that you let your fingers do the walking and find his erroneous doctrine on his website and go read it yourself. Bro giants, I took you up on that very fine suggestion and made that little "fingerwalk".  I'm really glad I did. Personally, I just didn't want to be guilty of believing and then spreading canned, secondhand, knee-jerk, responses to this doctrine in lieu of (at least) hearing/investigating/considering what the man was actually saying. It's the Berean in me.  I don't believe that ignoring or ignorance of a matter is ever an effective weapon against the "spirit of error". I think many of the current teachings and practices of the present day church are proof enough of that. Neither do I fear the "spirit of error" in the face and faith of Jesus' sure promise regarding the "Spirit of Truth" in John 16. So HERE is the link to the website for anyone else who may be interested. I cant think of anything better than Christmas with Carlton. My hair has never managed to curl the way his does-i think he would make me a fine husband what y'all think? ROFL!!! Please help our sista, Lord! Btw, the present Mrs. C.P. said to tell you, "Don't make me cut you."  LOLOL! |
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Post by keita on Mar 22, 2007 10:41:42 GMT -5
I recently (about 1 week ago) heard a prophet declare, "God is even now doing a shift in Carlton Pearson". He spoke God's desire that we therefore continue to pray for the brother as God moves. I'm in. He sat before the council of bishops ( which someone I know happens to be a part of ) to discuss his newfound beliefs and dissussed scripture before 300 bishops from all over the world and each one of them said his doctrine was heretical and against the bible. With all due respect bro giants, whenever I hear someone use that particular argument to oppose this brother, I'm reminded of an incident in 1Kings 22 (v. 1-38) On that day, the ratio was four hundred to one... and that one was nevertheless the one and only speaker of God's Word and Truth. So I'm just sayin'...  While I truly appreciate your strong feelings, imho, neither of those statements is entirely true. But to this one I will give a hearty AMEN! |
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Post by giantsdodie on Mar 22, 2007 15:31:12 GMT -5
Lemme just be really blunt.
Find in the bible a doctrine that teaches.
1) There is no hell
2) Everyone is going to heaven
3) It is not necessary for you to actually BELIEVE in Jesus as Lord OR Confess Him AS Lord to be saved
4) Even people who worship false God are SAVED ALREADY
This plain and simple is called Universalim. Carlton Pearson calls it the gospel of inclusion.
It is NOT biblical. Cannot be supported by the revelation of scripture. And this is what I mean by the revelation of scripture. It does NOT line up with what the bible teaches on salvation. It tries to pull a few scriptures out of context and MAKE a doctrine. But a Doctrinal teaching is based on the totality of a subject not the partiality of a subject.
Now as far the reference made to the book of Kings. You had one man who represented GOD and there was NO question by the people or his opposition WHO he represented. The question at hand was WHO the people would believe.
There should be no question that the doctrine is false. The docrtine has been declared heresy in that it teaches something OPPOSITE of the truth revealed in the scripture.
Bishop TD Jakes went on record as denouncing it. Bishop Charles Blake has gone on record denouncing it. The Late Bishop G.E. Patterson of COGIC, the church that you came out of, went on record denouncing it. The Council of Bishops denounced it as heretical.
Now I might be in the minority I have to make a stand when the BIBLE which is the standard of truth denounced your doctrine, and the people of GOD by and large denounce your doctrine, and those in leadership in churches from all over the world denounce your doctrine and those that you consider your friend and mentors denounce your doctrine and last but not least your father in the Gospel Oral Roberts writes a TWELVE PAGE LETTER denouncing your doctrine and showing you biblically WHY it isnt God....
Not to mention you lose your church and have to leave the fellowship you were in and now have joined allegiance to the United Church of Christ a church KNOWN to promote universalim through many of its minister as well as a gay and lesbian agenda.
Yet Bishop Pearson is the only one with the truth and everyone else is wrong ??
I think not. The doctrine is FALSE. Its OFF and it AINT God. PERIOD. Its universalism in a new coat.
Pray for Bishop Pearson. Pray he comes to a full understanding. Pray that he is no longer blind to the truth.
Just dont drink any of the kool aid.
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Post by keita on Mar 22, 2007 18:06:57 GMT -5
Lemme just be really blunt. LOL! I would never expect otherwise from you. It's also actually something that I really appreciate from you. C'mon now. That's way too oversimplified. You, I, Carlton Pearson and any literate person with a bible knows that "hell" is scriptural. So, if you would, please find me a statement, ie. a direct quote where Carlton Pearson actually stated that "there is no hell". Mind you, I'm not saying that he has never made such a statement somewhere. What I am saying is while I continue to hear that position attributed to him, I haven't yet read or heard it from him. This is just a portion of what he states on his website[/b][/color]: " It is not my intention to deny the existence of Hell, but to define it biblically rather than according to Greek mythology. We’ve always seen Hell as God’s answer to sin. This perception is only partially true, if at all."[/i] That kind of straight from the brother's mouth (as opposed to hearsay and church rhetoric) is exactly why I was and am open to the discussion that bro kanyon was considering with this thread. Btw, while you're at it, perhaps you can also find me a scripture which equates "hell" with the "lake of fire", which is what far too many of us definitely and quite unscripturally, nevertheless believe and teach. Undoing that particular longstanding false teaching is an area where Carlton Pearson and I may indeed find at least some agreement. (As I recall, sis ybrown once attempted some great inroads with that issue. Does anyone remember where that thread is/was?) Now I hope you remember that I did not ever say that I necessarily agree with Carlton Pearson about all the tenets of this doctrine (if, in fact what you have stated is actually what he has said). Thus my Berean-style openness to hearing from him and/or discussing it. But just so we're clear, I'll repeat my earlier/original comment: I believe Carlton Pearson is a man of God, who heard from God... and got it twisted. 
I believe that happens a lot and is exactly why the knots are worth untangling.
I would love to hear from and talk with the brother... This plain and simple is called Universalim. Carlton Pearson calls it the gospel of inclusion. True that. Now that pretty much effectively sums up one side of the discussion/debate. But, as the "other side" is equally passionate in their position, your statements, no matter how emphatically stated, definitely do not conclude the matter. Indeed! My point in sharing that particular cautionary tale from scripture was to point out the serious weakness of arguing that 300/400 (or however many) folks disagreeing with and opposing 1 means that the one therefore must be wrong. I'm simply saying and using that particular scripture to illustrate that when it comes to God and His Word, quantitative measure may not be among the best ways to judge the truth and soundness of a church doctrine. Again, that is one position in the debate/discussion.  For the record, I have never been a member of the COGIC. And even if I were, that would not mean that Bishop G.E. Patterson (who I dearly love and whose preaching I have often been blessed by, God rest his soul) and I would necessarily agree about every matter of doctrine. Not to worry, I think God has at least 1 or 2 or "7,000" more folks who would take that same stand . At any rate, your conclusion is, at the least, debatable. [/size][/quote] As I said above, I do not see quantitative measurement (how many are for or aginst something) as the best ground to discount or accept the scripturality of a doctrine. To me, the loss of former friends and relations isn't really or necessarily a great measure of the truth and soundness of a doctrine either. But it is an unfortunate fact that alienation can indeed result in some truly tragic alliances. LOL! Bro giants, I NEVER said nor do I believe such foolishness. Please know that I really do appreciate and respect your strong position. I'm even willing to concede that it may in fact be completely correct. But I'm gonna need some better evidence (and I do believe there may in fact be a great deal of it) than what (and the type) you've presented thus far for that agreement to happen. Amen! And I'm gonna just go on and boldly include the entire Body of Christ in that prayer. LOL! No worries! |
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Post by giantsdodie on Mar 22, 2007 18:42:03 GMT -5
No argument. No debate. Its off. Period.
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Post by keita on Mar 22, 2007 18:44:52 GMT -5
God Bless You for sharing, my brother! |
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Post by ybrown on Mar 23, 2007 0:46:34 GMT -5
I would say if the following does describe Carlton Pearson’s views, then he is in error.
1) There is no hell
2) Everyone is going to heaven
3) It is not necessary for you to actually BELIEVE in Jesus as Lord OR Confess Him AS Lord to be saved
4) Even people who worship false God are SAVED ALREADY
If, on the other hand his views are not what is stated above, then it is absolutely sin to say that they are. It would be pure hearsay and bearing false witness, and God will deal that.
It would be foolish to think Pat Robertson speaks for all who believe in eternal torment, and it is equally ridiculous to believe that Carlton Pearson speaks for all who don’t.
Keita, much ignorance has been shown in one post in particular. Not on your part. I appreciate the Fruit that the Father is showing through you in your posts.
To correct a gross misconception, UR does not hold to #1, #3 and #4 and #2 is no where near as simplistic as it’s being misrepresented. If UR looked anything like that, I certainly wouldn’t believe it, and neither would the thousands of biblically literate, Holy Spirit-filled, floor-threshing and intelligent people I’ve met over the past year who have blessed me beyond measure.
When I even started seeing UR I was like ‘Oh, snap.” And I mean over verses I had read tens or even hundreds of times before. Suddenly unclear passage took on a whole new clarity, and suddenly Scripture from cover to cover laid out a many layered, beautifully consistent story of how God deeply and wonderfully loves Christ and us.
Believe me, this is not me and I wasn’t even looking for it. I was perfectly happy holding to my old beliefs, but apparently, God wasn’t. Even HE knew that He had to show this to me scripturally for me to believe it because it is so opposed to what I was taught.
That’s why no man can take or shake anything I believe because no man gave it to me in the first place.
I don’t know what Carlton Pearson is going through but if He holds to Scripture then he doesn’t have anything to fear. And if he does believe the things that were posted, I would love to speak with him too to show him scripturally where He errs.
My goal is to preserve God's inspiration, not beliefs, and I recognize that that will make lots of folks angry and scared.
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Post by krazeeboi on Mar 23, 2007 3:46:57 GMT -5
^Wow, I felt the same way when I essentially discovered Reformed theology, LOL.
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Post by giantsdodie on Mar 24, 2007 22:32:14 GMT -5
Let me be 100% PERFECTLY clear here. As this will be my last post on this topic. This is not conjecture. This is not hearsay. This is not my friend heard from his uncles, cousins, brother on his mother's side.These are things that have been QUOTED in articles, newspapers and print media both christian and secular.
I have read the articles and I have seen him on televsion express his views. Me and my wife heard him say HIMSELF on NATIONAL TV " There is no hell "
Now let me also be clear about this as well. The man needs prayer. He is a soul that GOD cares about, He is a soul that JESUS died for. Pray for Him as the Lord leads you. Intercede for His soul, but you dont need to open the door for the spirit of error to seduce and confuse young saints or those that are not strong in their biblical knowledge or conviction.
We have to understand that Bible tells us clearly that in these times men WILL depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We should not be surpised when these things happen. Its a shame when it does, but it does.
I dont believe in destroying a man because he is wrong or misled. I believe in prayer and intercession for that soul to come to know the truth, repent, and come back to Jesus.
I wanted to be clear so that it was understood that this is not something I heard someone else say that he has said I saw him say it MYSELF.
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Post by ybrown on Mar 26, 2007 18:01:23 GMT -5
Let me be 100% PERFECTLY clear here. As this will be my last post on this topic. This is not conjecture. This is not hearsay. This is not my friend heard from his uncles, cousins, brother on his mother's side.These are things that have been QUOTED in articles, newspapers and print media both christian and secular. I have read the articles and I have seen him on televsion express his views. Me and my wife heard him say HIMSELF on NATIONAL TV " There is no hell " As I'm not a witness to his views, I can't speak on them, but if he has expressed these views and they're not just soundbites or abbreviated statements, then what he is saying is unbiblical. However, I would believe there is more to his beliefs than this. He's not the only one that needs prayer. He is where he is because this is his season for this place. We are all in the place where God wants us. No one should open the door to the spirit of error, but unfortunately 100% of the Saints will be seduced by error at some point in their walks. And it usually happens to those that think they themselves are not in it. That's why I'm grateful for God's extending hand and mercy in those times and any time that I miss the mark in doctrine, and most importantly, in love. The last days have been upon us for the last 2000 years and men have been departing from the faith ever since. No man knows all there is to know about God and since each of us now sees through a glass darkly, I believe it is also a seducing spirit that leads one to believe that they have the corner on biblical truth. It's not really a shame, it's just what God ordains so that He may show His goodness manifest later. To even think that we have the power in the first place to destroy or not to destroy someone else, especially someone God has his hand on, is haughty. We should all pray that every man, woman and child comes into the truth, repent and come or return to Jesus because that is why He was sent, isn't it? Thank you. |
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I'm really glad I did. Personally, I just didn't want to be guilty of believing and then spreading canned, secondhand, knee-jerk, responses to this doctrine in lieu of (at least) hearing/investigating/considering what the man was actually saying.
