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Post by Beck on May 25, 2006 13:44:01 GMT -5
who was moses, peter and paul??? God doesnt call the qualified... he qualifies the called.. doesnt matter where you came from if God called you.. IMO.
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Post by ybrown on May 25, 2006 14:08:47 GMT -5
who was moses, peter and paul??? God doesnt call the qualified... he qualifies the called.. doesnt matter where you came from if God called you.. IMO. Elder Beck, can you clarify or expound? |
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Post by Beck on May 25, 2006 14:46:33 GMT -5
who was moses, peter and paul??? God doesnt call the qualified... he qualifies the called.. doesnt matter where you came from if God called you.. IMO. Elder Beck, can you clarify or expound? On which part? Basically what im saying is we are all EX something, and what we used to do, or be shouldnt hinder the pastor to be open and honest about where the lord has brought them from. He didnt make them pastors because of their personal qualifications, he called them because of his divine purpose and plan. Moses killed someone, Peter was a hot head and a jail bird, paul was a murderer, Abraham was a liar, David was a Adulterer...all these things brings a better understanding of the grace of God in a person's life... IMO. |
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Post by Jasmine on May 25, 2006 14:57:28 GMT -5
Greetings everyone: I have a question, in today's churches we have people who are giving testimonies and are telling everything about themselves and how God brought them out. In this age of laying it on the line are Church Folks ready for Transparent Leaders? Are we ready for Leaders who were ex child abusers? Are we ready for women leaders who were ex prostitutes? are we ready for leaders who were ex wife beaters and tortured women? Are we ready for leaders who were ex rapists? Are we ready for ex Homosexual leaders? Are we READY for our LEADERS to put it all out there and be transparent? Why wouldn't we be ready? People have already acknowledge these these things in churches and some of these individuals are world renouned. When God deliveres..You dont have to worry about falling into that trap again. His deliverance is a done deal. |
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Post by nina on May 25, 2006 15:34:44 GMT -5
"As long as they accept the pre-packaged messages as food filled with all the preservatives, then the preacher is not going to go out in the fields and trenches and bring back the fresh, God-given food which is capable to sustain beyond week after week."
The answer to this, imho, was written a long time ago:
Isaiah 55:1-3
1. Woe! All who thirst, go to water, and whoever has no money, go, buy and eat, and go, buy without money and without a price, wine and milk.
2. Why should you weigh out money without bread and your toil without satiety? Hearken to Me and eat what is good, and your soul shall delight in fatness.
3. Incline your ear and come to Me, hearken and your soul shall live, and I will make for you an everlasting covenant, the dependable mercies of David.
The water is the word... The word is the water... Why should we settle for less, when it's there for all to drink and eat, given by God Himself?
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Post by ybrown on May 25, 2006 15:40:57 GMT -5
Elder Beck, can you clarify or expound? On which part? Basically what im saying is we are all EX something, and what we used to do, or be shouldnt hinder the pastor to be open and honest about where the lord has brought them from. He didnt make them pastors because of their personal qualifications, he called them because of his divine purpose and plan. Moses killed someone, Peter was a hot head and a jail bird, paul was a murderer, Abraham was a liar, David was a Adulterer...all these things brings a better understanding of the grace of God in a person's life... IMO. I agree. These men were anointed and clearly had the hand of God on them. It just seems today that a lot of preachers are faking the funk with no anointing or the hand of God anywhere in sight - on them or their messages. |
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G3
Full Member
Let The Holy Ghost Show You The Way
Posts: 158
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Post by G3 on May 25, 2006 16:44:22 GMT -5
What set these "frame of references" (Abraham, David, Moses, Paul and Peter) was that these individuals comitted an evil act either for self preservation or in a position of inaccountibility (in both Moses and Abraham's cases who was before the Law), an act that was not part of their daily routine with the exception of Paul, who admitted what he did was in ignorance and thought he was doing God a favor. David was a man hungry for God who slipped into sin. While Peter needed the Holy Ghost to develope temperance. With the exception of some that weren't mentioned these men had a back ground of various degrees of teaching in the "Law and of the Prophets". Though the Father foreknown them and ordained them in their call while they were yet in their mother womb, each one had to walk into that reality at the beckoning of the Holy Spirit.
We all had some kind of history and I'm sure each and everyone of us can sit around the camp fire and reminisce some chilling stories. But praise be to the Father, " of those who He predestined, He called, and of those He called, He declared justified and rightious, and of those who had rightiousness imputed, He made manifested before the church and the world. And to all those who hears the "Gospel of the Kingdom" and believes on Him who they preach, will also be predestinated, called, justfied and glorified.
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Post by Nikkol on May 26, 2006 7:17:07 GMT -5
It actually isn't what I consider a "bad" thing. It actually somewhat reminds me of what occurs if we are teaching Bible Study or even better example would be Sunday School by which teaching is occurring. The sermons could be used as outlines and things can be added based on the congregation.
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G3
Full Member
Let The Holy Ghost Show You The Way
Posts: 158
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Post by G3 on May 26, 2006 8:48:10 GMT -5
Hey Brown, FAKIN THE FUNK. Now that's funny.  |
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Post by auneeqsol on May 26, 2006 9:12:28 GMT -5
I have a question since you all brought the story of the "suit testimony " up...LOL
Okay what if there is a pastor that seems a bit transparent in his messages and all, and can preach a real prophetic word, not telling fish stories, or tall tales and not just hoopin through a sermon, but actually hears from God and operates in the gifts of God, but when it comes to his character, its a bit shady in some areas? Is it good to have one over the other?
And this might be off the subject , well not really, but if a pastor tells of how God is prospering him spiritually and naturally so, and admonishes the church to not be afraid to give because youre not giving to him but to the Lord. And then says things like you need to ask him to teach you how to get out of debt and to trust God like he does .....But!!!! He has a outside job that sometimes takes him away from church duties, and plus he gets a salary that is equivalent to someone's average working salary a yr grossing probably $25,000 or more a year, and also he gets bonuses when the spirit is "real high" (according to the finance dpt) not in accordance with the salary amount that was originally established, and when his bills got overwhelming he could just get a check from the church to pay it (house note, etc)
Could we say thats a bit too much and that if you are going to tell everyone that God will supply then you need to have some experience under your belt, or actually be in that position to say that?
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Post by Nikkol on May 26, 2006 9:40:07 GMT -5
Is it good? No. But this happens all the time. This is why we should all pray that our gift doesn't outgrow our character. God can and will anoint anyone to do His will. Also, many times, a person is pushed into things that although that may be what they are supposed to do, they were placed in it early. This is occurring a lot with young ministers (esp. male ministers) Someone "prophesies" that they are going to preach the Word and they get excited and start towards doing that rather than waiting for the right time.
Remember that Paul had an "outside job". (Additionally, "church duties" is very interesting based on the discussion about the way the church should be run. ;-) ) Also, I don't know if I would say that in order to be in a position to say something (esp. from the Word of God) you have to have some experience first
Side Note: the sad thing about many pastors is although they may be making a nice amount of money, taxes really dig a deep hole in their pockets. And in many churches they may not even have benefits or a retirement plan. This is why some pastors although they may be old and need to step down can't because they have nothing for retirement.
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Post by inhishand on May 26, 2006 10:50:04 GMT -5
I have a question since you all brought the story of the "suit testimony " up...LOL Okay what if there is a pastor that seems a bit transparent in his messages and all, and can preach a real prophetic word, not telling fish stories, or tall tales and not just hoopin through a sermon, but actually hears from God and operates in the gifts of God, but when it comes to his character, its a bit shady in some areas? Is it good to have one over the other? Moses, Aaron, David, Peter, Solomon, Thomas.... there are more.... All have been called into their office and placed in position by God with shady areas.... We may not understand why God uses such leaders with such an high anointing, Look at David... he had issues before and during he time in his position as King... God chosen him and placed as King and stamped His approval. Your question can be answered by what we see through God's chosen biblical leaders. $25,000 a year is consider as very low income in my State and Extremely low if he supporting a wife and children.... Which mean he better do some outside work. God expect the church to pay their leaders salary and take care of him/her. Prosperity is not always based on how much $$$.... You can be prosperous, with living 30% below the median income level, paid all your bills on time, dress nice, eat healthy and good, completely out of debt with 750+ credit score, happy and growing spiritually.... While a wealthy person, swimming debt, unhappy and dying spiritually. So the man of God is really encouraging his congregation to get out of debt and grow spiritually. Having a outside job and getting his needs met by his job the church, is not a lack of trust or faith (most churches paid their leaders mortgage/rent)... faith without work is dead. Trusting God doesn't mean that you won't have needs... Your pastor have taken on a second job probably to avoid extra burden on the church.... pastoring is a overtime job by itself, becuase everything in upon his shoulder and God hold him accountable. I think he need more credit for what he doing. in his hand |
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Post by hezsweetiknow on May 28, 2006 6:34:09 GMT -5
Kirk Franklin was recently very transparent about his struggle with porn.
By him being transparent, he helped SO MANY people. Even had the opportunity to take his message to millions of Oprahs' viewers (IMHO Oprah sabotaged the interview!).
I'm sure there are shallow folk who will talk negatively but what they say can't measure up to the deliverance some people now walk in because of his testimony.
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Post by auneeqsol on May 31, 2006 11:48:45 GMT -5
No....this pastor was already working, then they were giving him salary, and the bad part about it is that the church was in trouble with rent and he still said that no matter what he was getting his salary and that he wouldnt stop, the congregation would just have to come up in their giving, and the people got kicked out of their building they were worshipping in. And as a last attempt to save the church he told the members that there was not enough coming in to pay the rent so could the elders give $500 a piece and the members $100 a piece. The problem with that is, there was more than enough money coming in to keep the CHURCH up and flowing but not to pay him the salary he DEMANDED and pay rent also. That's what I mean by shady. And to this day the congregation is NOT allowed to know how the funds are being allocated, and to what ministries. If someone brings up money they are scrutinized for being a trouble maker and a person who has PROBLEMS with money that's why they ask about it all the time...(that is what was said)
I'm not knocking pastors that work another job and get a salary, but i still don't call them "full-time" , the term is used for one who doesnt work an outside job, but give themselves solely to the needs of the ministry. To me that person is doing a lil more, not because they are better but because they have more time.
When Paul was speaking in 1 Cor 9:6-19 I believe he was speaking about those who build the ministry solely, not to say that working pastors don't but if one needs their pastor for something, and they are at work , they can't counsel them on the job right then and there, or come and check things out. But one who is in full- time if they are not supporting themselves but working fervently for the ministry then why not support them? And Paul had an occupation to support himself because he didnt look for the churches to support him especially if they didnt want to, but he knew that he had to continue on doing the work preaching the gospel regardless, and for this reason he told them basically dont worry about it if it's gonna cause confusion, and remember he could have demanded it by the law.
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