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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 20, 2007 15:19:18 GMT -5
Here's one view ("PNT commentary) (from mt 18) 15. If thy brother. Compare Mark 9:38, and Luke 9:49. Brother in the church. Sin against thee. Personally. Injure you or do you wrong. Shew him his fault. Go to him privately and have a kind, brotherly talk over the matter, and try to show him his fault. Gained thy brother. For thyself, by restoring good feeling; for God, by leading him to a sense of sin and repentance. 16. Take with thee one or two more. If the private interview is of no avail, take other brethren as witnesses and intercessors. These witnesses, hearing the matter talked over, can report the facts. 17. Tell it to the church. If neither effort is of avail, then report it to the church for action. This is the second instance in the New Testament of the use of the word "church." The first is in Matt. 16:18. If he refuse to hear the church. The admonition and entreaty of the church through its elders. The church has power to admonish and to exclude. Let him be to thee as a heathen man and a publican. Have no religious fellowship with him, more than you would have with a heathen, or a publican. The publicans were usually apostate Jews. The orthodox Jews had no social intercourse with heathen or publicans. I shall return with more.... Okay, this scripture has to do with discipline so I get where you are coming from now. Were there any scriptures that you had in mind that specifically speaks to silencing? |
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 20, 2007 15:20:00 GMT -5
I believe that I made it very CLEAR that it was not EVERY COGIC that I was referring to. And my "joke" about being "delivered" from COGIC is just that ...a joke. However, when one is in bondage, deliverance is needed. I really wasn't talking about your particular statement...i just didn't want this topic to turn into a "bash COGIC" topic..... thats all sis no hard feelings  back atcha! |
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 20, 2007 16:00:09 GMT -5
Here's one view ("PNT commentary) (from mt 18) 15. If thy brother. Compare Mark 9:38, and Luke 9:49. Brother in the church. Sin against thee. Personally. Injure you or do you wrong. Shew him his fault. Go to him privately and have a kind, brotherly talk over the matter, and try to show him his fault. Gained thy brother. For thyself, by restoring good feeling; for God, by leading him to a sense of sin and repentance. 16. Take with thee one or two more. If the private interview is of no avail, take other brethren as witnesses and intercessors. These witnesses, hearing the matter talked over, can report the facts. 17. Tell it to the church. If neither effort is of avail, then report it to the church for action. This is the second instance in the New Testament of the use of the word "church." The first is in Matt. 16:18. If he refuse to hear the church. The admonition and entreaty of the church through its elders. The church has power to admonish and to exclude. Let him be to thee as a heathen man and a publican. Have no religious fellowship with him, more than you would have with a heathen, or a publican. The publicans were usually apostate Jews. The orthodox Jews had no social intercourse with heathen or publicans. I shall return with more.... Okay, this scripture has to do with discipline so I get where you are coming from now. Were there any scriptures that you had in mind that specifically speaks to silencing? Let me go back and reread the posts because I look at "silencing" the way I look at someone losing fellowship with the saints based on their actions and therefore there's no real fellowship. Now I know that Paul discussed turning people over to Satan (1 cor 5:5 and 1 tim 1:20) Let me go re-read..... |
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Post by anointedteacher on Nov 20, 2007 16:28:31 GMT -5
I used to be a part of the COGIC when I was very young and I have a aunt who is still a part of the COGIC, so I know very little about how they operates.
I was sat down in my church and everyone was told not to speak to me. It was very hard, because noone in my family were saved and I couldn't tell them what happen to me. I had to keep it to myself because I didn't want it to affect my family in a way they will turn away from the church and never get saved.
I was silencing, because I was tired of the way some of the elders were handling me, they will yell at you as if you were a child. This wasn't the COGIC... it is Full Gospel an Apostolic Prohetic Church. There were too much favortism... if you wasn't making a certain amount of money, you were treated like a dog. I was sat down for a little over six years. Church ppl are cold hearted, I only met a few that actually walk in love. They can be worst than the world. Two elders refused to stop ministering to me and talking to me. I prayed and interceed regularily and the Lord told me to stay and not to leave. It was hard.... at one time, I wasn't allow to clean the church or to pray in the church. It was right after I tried to commit suicide by taking a hand full of pills in the back of the church. I was very faithful, I never missed a tithe except one time when I was new to the church and I lended my tithe to my brother and he didn't pay me back(I made up that tithe several times).... that was 1990. I had perfect attendance ten years straight. I have invested a lot of time, my gifts and money in the church. I have made dozen of church banners in my church. I have made ministerial garments for my leaders.
Now the church split and almost all the of the member on both side are gone and both are struggling. My pastor never apologized for what she have done to me. My Apostle have apologized with tears because she knew she made bad decision and mistakes.
Most leaders are not trained properly and is not dead to self.... Too many thing are done in the flesh and not in the Holy Spirit. I don't have a problem with submission and servanthood, I love serving. They have to realize they are God's steward over His ppl, they must treat every person right. Yes... it come to time when there must be discipline, accountabilities, but it must be done in the way the Holy Spirit is leading them to do it. To constantly rebuke a person over the pulpit to make an example out of them, and never have time to sit down and talk to that person is wrong. To take action against a person because someone say they did something... and never spoke to the person about what have been said or even investigate is wrong.
I believe a pastor must protect the congregation from those who sow discord and confusion. They must protect themselves from those who out to destroy their characters. They must take action when those in leadership or have a position in the church that are in sin. They must deal with the elders and deacon/ess when their house in out of order. They must take action when their minister teaches false doctrine or is compromising. They must take a stand for Holiness and righteousness. I am not 100% against silencing, but it must be done right, must be led by the Holy Spirit and not flesh.
AT
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Post by stillfocused on Nov 20, 2007 16:51:45 GMT -5
I strongly believe that because of a lack of teaching regarding this topic it can cause alot of confusion..how true the word that says because of the lack of knowledge my people perish.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 20, 2007 19:11:40 GMT -5
Okay, this scripture has to do with discipline so I get where you are coming from now. Were there any scriptures that you had in mind that specifically speaks to silencing? Let me go back and reread the posts because I look at "silencing" the way I look at someone losing fellowship with the saints based on their actions and therefore there's no real fellowship. Now I know that Paul discussed turning people over to Satan (1 cor 5:5 and 1 tim 1:20) Let me go re-read..... Yeah, that is where I thought you were going with it. In my situation, I didn't lose fellowship, in fact if I didn't come to church then it was said that "I was of the devil", "backsliding" or "sleeping with some woman". Since the church I attended was so small (in number) they really didn't want anyone to leave and everytime someone did, it was never said that they heard from God but that the "devil had them". Anyone who feel that they need to "silence" someone is using this as a tool to control the individual (yet they will not call it such). It is truly witchcraft. |
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Post by stillfocused on Nov 20, 2007 19:31:17 GMT -5
Although we know the steps to follow regarding reconcilation..many..many that's not the case. We must learn how to handle all matters in decency and in order.
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Post by chosen on Nov 20, 2007 19:34:44 GMT -5
absolutley it is witchcraft, and it has nothing to do with denomination, I still keep hearing the Spirit of Jezabell Its a stronghold in some of the churches today.
Many Blessings
Jessica
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Post by stillfocused on Nov 20, 2007 19:39:43 GMT -5
My silly question is this..how is that when someone within congregation is seen as perverse and sowing seeds of discord..they become the scapegoat for the problem within the fellowship; yet, when a leader stands up before the congregation and says "they were stabbed in the back by Jonnie Rainbow and he has backslidden we will continue to pray for him..that leader is not sat down or silenced..even though though he just sown a seed of discord into the ears of those who make up the congregation. Who silences the leader forl doing the thing you did ?
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Post by Beck on Nov 21, 2007 16:14:18 GMT -5
Correct me if Im wrong please, but I thought silencing was a tradition that was practiced by the church in order to help #1 the person, and #2 the church? Isnt that why paul wrote to the church in Corinth? I agree with the scripture that Nikkol posted as a form of discipline and to bring order... You cant have false teaching and contradictory lifestyles just running on the rampage in the church. Silence the person, give them all the help they need, if that doesnt work.. Note them and send them on their way...
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Post by stillfocused on Nov 22, 2007 2:47:06 GMT -5
Beck..you made an interesting point..which you thought that silencing was a tradition practiced by the church to help the person and the church. It's not the a question of lifestyle..such as sexual immorality; yet, it's a question he said and she said. If it's a tradition why is this practice allowed within the church..when the word of God says that tradition makes the word of no affect.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 26, 2007 10:18:11 GMT -5
Correct me if Im wrong please, but I thought silencing was a tradition that was practiced by the church in order to help #1 the person, and #2 the church? Isnt that why paul wrote to the church in Corinth? I agree with the scripture that Nikkol posted as a form of discipline and to bring order... You cant have false teaching and contradictory lifestyles just running on the rampage in the church. Silence the person, give them all the help they need, if that doesnt work.. Note them and send them on their way... this was not the case with me though. Unfortunately some just do it out of control and manipulation. I agree with you and Nikkol, bro beck that if someone is sowing discord or is living a lifestyle contrary to scripture then I would speak with them regarding the "discord" and "lifestyle" and prayerfully help them through the situation. My situation was more of a............................ ahhh nevermind, forget it! Jesus is LORD and that is all that matters...lol |
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 26, 2007 11:19:06 GMT -5
Correct me if Im wrong please, but I thought silencing was a tradition that was practiced by the church in order to help #1 the person, and #2 the church? Isnt that why paul wrote to the church in Corinth? I agree with the scripture that Nikkol posted as a form of discipline and to bring order... You cant have false teaching and contradictory lifestyles just running on the rampage in the church. Silence the person, give them all the help they need, if that doesnt work.. Note them and send them on their way... this was not the case with me though. Unfortunately some just do it out of control and manipulation. I agree with you and Nikkol, bro beck that if someone is sowing discord or is living a lifestyle contrary to scripture then I would speak with them regarding the "discord" and "lifestyle" and prayerfully help them through the situation. My situation was more of a............................ ahhh nevermind, forget it! Jesus is LORD and that is all that matters...lol People sometimes use it as a way of just being prideful and a form of witchcraft. That shouldn't be tolerated. However, there is a time when it should be used.... it would just help if all the churches were on the same "page" because honestly no matter what I do, I can find a church that will accept that behavior..... a lack of consistency....... I do think that at least when everyone had those "strict rules", it seemed moreso throughout denominations which gave at least some consistency...... but that's a different topic. |
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Post by stillfocused on Nov 26, 2007 12:05:44 GMT -5
I grew up in 2 denominations..and this is a practice that was never heard of. In one denomination..if you committed the sexual immortiality and you got pregnant you had to stand up in front the church and confess your sin and ask for forgiveness..the other denomination I didn't see this. It was not until I became afflicated with the COGIC denomination did I experience and hear of the this being done..I am not trying to bash the COGIC just making a point..
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Post by Jasmine on Nov 26, 2007 12:53:04 GMT -5
I grew up in 2 denominations..and this is a practice that was never heard of. In one denomination..if you committed the sexual immortiality and you got pregnant you had to stand up in front the church and confess your sin and ask for forgiveness..the other denomination I didn't see this. It was not until I became afflicated with the COGIC denomination did I experience and hear of the this being done..I am not trying to bash the COGIC just making a point.. most TRADITIONAL PASTORS 60+ and over in age, will "sit you down", and will also have you come before the church and ask for forgiveness. Now, it has been my experience with young pastors, that you won't have to go before the church and ask forgiveness, just get it right with God. and normally when people have done wrong, they sit themselves down...not by the pastor's doing, but on their own. I earnestly don't believe there is anything wrong with silencing...when its done for the right reasons, and with a pure intent to restore and bring deliverance. I mean..I have no idea on the kind of churches ya'll have encountered. But the cogic churches I have been led to attend are worth attending. |
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