oracle
Junior Member
Posts: 58
|
Post by oracle on Jul 16, 2005 18:04:31 GMT -5
When someone overeats, the worse that will happen is they will, like you say, throw up,,,however if someone over drinks, the consequences could be deadly, not only to themselves but to others.
Also in the Bible verse you posed, the context there was referring to the fact that John the Baptist came neither eating or drinking, and they called him a devil....then it goes on to say the part about Jesus came eating AND drinking, and the people said JESUS was a drinker, glutton, publican and sinner...NOT that the people were trying to talk about other people, and not pay attention to the fact Jesus was in their midst.
The way you posed it is out of context....Which I can see where you may have interpreted it that way, but if you read the entire chapter, it may help clarify it better for you.
Lu 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Lu 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
Lu 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Lu 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Lu 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.
Ultimately we all have to work out our own salvation, that is a given. I just wonder what the motive is behind drinking wine or alcohol. Whether it is legal to do so or not...the effect will be either drunkeness or a mood altering experience. There is no getting around it.
|
|
|
|
Post by hezsweetiknow on Jul 21, 2005 10:56:37 GMT -5
When someone overeats, the worse that will happen is they will, like you say, throw up,,,however if someone over drinks, the consequences could be deadly, not only to themselves but to others.quote] Continual overeating leads to obesisty which leads to some serious diseases...diabetes, heart failure, etc. The early death of a morbidly obese persons affects the family and friends left behind. Like True said...moderation in everything is key. Ultimately we all have to work out our own salvation, that is a given. I just wonder what the motive is behind drinking wine or alcohol. Whether it is legal to do so or not...the effect will be either drunkeness or a mood altering experience. There is no getting around it. There are proven studies that wine in moderation can benefit your health. Paul told Timothy to have just a little wine for your stomach's sake. Jesus said that He would drink no more of the fruit of the vine (wine) till we all met again. I guess that means there will be wine in heaven ya'll. If you have a known problem with alcohol, of course don't drink. If you do drink -- in moderation of course (a glass of wine with your supper) I don't believe a brother or sister is condemned. |
|
|
|
Post by Destiny on Jul 26, 2005 21:35:21 GMT -5
Don't even go there...we are a chosen generation, on service for the most high. We need to be alert at all times. We are constantly under attack. The best we can do is be alert, keep off any alcoholic drink, so that when the enemy attacks you, you will not be vulnerable.
You don't need the HS to speak to you on this saints!
|
|
|
|
Post by Nikkol on Jul 27, 2005 7:41:10 GMT -5
You don't need the HS to speak to you on this saints! Proverbs 3 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Remember that everything that we do or don't should be based on God and what He himself tells us. We don't want people relying on their "common sense" but rather on God. |
|
|
|
Post by True NSI on Jul 27, 2005 8:40:26 GMT -5
Amen Nikkol  |
|
|
|
Post by J13578 on Jul 27, 2005 12:46:30 GMT -5
- At the wedding, when his mother told Jesus that they were out of wine, he did not tell the servants to fill everything with water and serve the water: he turned it into wine and the best at that.
- Jesus was constantly attacked by the Pharisees and accused of being basically drinking with all the party goers of the day
- At the last supper, according to the Law and Jewish tradition, there was wine at the table
I know very well that the Bible tells us not to be drunk with wine but filled with the Holy Spirit. And, just in case, I don't drink alcohol myself, period.
I would not question somebody else's salvation because of a glass of wine. In all things, including drinking, we ought to exercise discernment.
|
|
|
|
Post by krazeeboi on Jul 31, 2005 15:31:10 GMT -5
I REALLY hope we don't make this an America-centric topic.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nikkol on Jul 31, 2005 15:41:47 GMT -5
I REALLY hope we don't make this an America-centric topic. I was just having a discussion about that with someone. Except we were discussing how in other cultures, what they wear as clothing would be seen to us as immodest. Their point was looking at this moreso from what occurs in Islam is that when the religion of Islam takes over an area, the people change what they wear etc. For they see it as their is an "absolute truth" inr egards to all issues. Yet, in Christianity, much is based on culture and so therefore there is less and less "absolute truth" and more and more "relative truth" So in that example, if in these remote areas they started to hold fast to Christianity, would it be wrong to assume that they would therefore change their clothes to wear what would be modest? Or that "modest" is now relative and there's no need to change? Just thought that that was interesting and I had never thought about it like that..... |
|
|
|
Post by krazeeboi on Aug 1, 2005 2:23:41 GMT -5
Now I really have mixed feelings about that. There are too many stories of European and American missionaries evangelizing remote areas of the world, and once the indigenous people convert to Christianity, these missionaries basically told them that they had to abandon practically everything pertaining to their culture, which I do not feel is right in the least. Now I do not believe that this applicable to ALL areas, but a balance does need to be made. I do not believe that the call to discipleship is necessarily a call to abandon one's culture. Also, I just came across this excerpt from an article about Christian liberty and I thought it was appropriate here: All too often today, the "weaker brother" is defined as the one who does not grasp his Christian liberties. While alcoholism and drunkenness are surely wrong, drinking a glass of wine is not forbidden. When a "tee totaler" saint insists that another Christian must not drink even a glass of wine, he should also be willing to accept the label of the "weaker brother." The one who insists you cannot exercise a liberty is the one who is weak and poorly informed. The one who insists that another must refrain from a matter of liberty because that liberty is offensive has missed the point of the Scriptures. You may find smoking offensive, but you are not a "weaker brother" unless you are so weak that you will follow the example of the one who lights up. Most of those who insist that others refrain from alcohol or tobacco (because partaking of them is sin) are not those who are truly weak, and who will violate their consciences by following the example of the one who partakes.
For those matters which are liberties, the one who is truly spiritual will be willing to forego them if exercising his liberty is at the expense of another. The knowledge which informs us of a liberty must be subject to the love which puts the interests of our brother before our own.
|
|
|
|
Post by krazeeboi on Aug 1, 2005 2:26:40 GMT -5
We don't want people relying on their "common sense" but rather on God. Ain't nothin' wrong with relying on your common sense as long as you have the mind of Christ.  |
|
|
|
Post by Beulah5 on Aug 1, 2005 4:30:11 GMT -5
I do love fine wine |
|
|
|
Post by Nikkol on Aug 1, 2005 9:05:06 GMT -5
Now I really have mixed feelings about that. There are too many stories of European and American missionaries evangelizing remote areas of the world, and once the indigenous people convert to Christianity, these missionaries basically told them that they had to abandon practically everything pertaining to their culture, which I do not feel is right in the least. Now I do not believe that this applicable to ALL areas, but a balance does need to be made. I do not believe that the call to discipleship is necessarily a call to abandon one's culture. Also, I just came across this excerpt from an article about Christian liberty and I thought it was appropriate here: All too often today, the "weaker brother" is defined as the one who does not grasp his Christian liberties. While alcoholism and drunkenness are surely wrong, drinking a glass of wine is not forbidden. When a "tee totaler" saint insists that another Christian must not drink even a glass of wine, he should also be willing to accept the label of the "weaker brother." The one who insists you cannot exercise a liberty is the one who is weak and poorly informed. The one who insists that another must refrain from a matter of liberty because that liberty is offensive has missed the point of the Scriptures. You may find smoking offensive, but you are not a "weaker brother" unless you are so weak that you will follow the example of the one who lights up. Most of those who insist that others refrain from alcohol or tobacco (because partaking of them is sin) are not those who are truly weak, and who will violate their consciences by following the example of the one who partakes.
For those matters which are liberties, the one who is truly spiritual will be willing to forego them if exercising his liberty is at the expense of another. The knowledge which informs us of a liberty must be subject to the love which puts the interests of our brother before our own.
What is the determinating factor on if something cultural is ok or not? |
|
|
|
Post by kanyon on Aug 1, 2005 10:31:40 GMT -5
Now I really have mixed feelings about that. There are too many stories of European and American missionaries evangelizing remote areas of the world, and once the indigenous people convert to Christianity, these missionaries basically told them that they had to abandon practically everything pertaining to their culture, which I do not feel is right in the least. Now I do not believe that this applicable to ALL areas, but a balance does need to be made. I do not believe that the call to discipleship is necessarily a call to abandon one's culture. Also, I just came across this excerpt from an article about Christian liberty and I thought it was appropriate here: All too often today, the "weaker brother" is defined as the one who does not grasp his Christian liberties. While alcoholism and drunkenness are surely wrong, drinking a glass of wine is not forbidden. When a "tee totaler" saint insists that another Christian must not drink even a glass of wine, he should also be willing to accept the label of the "weaker brother." The one who insists you cannot exercise a liberty is the one who is weak and poorly informed. The one who insists that another must refrain from a matter of liberty because that liberty is offensive has missed the point of the Scriptures. You may find smoking offensive, but you are not a "weaker brother" unless you are so weak that you will follow the example of the one who lights up. Most of those who insist that others refrain from alcohol or tobacco (because partaking of them is sin) are not those who are truly weak, and who will violate their consciences by following the example of the one who partakes.
For those matters which are liberties, the one who is truly spiritual will be willing to forego them if exercising his liberty is at the expense of another. The knowledge which informs us of a liberty must be subject to the love which puts the interests of our brother before our own.
What is the determinating factor on if something cultural is ok or not? First, on the matter of alcohol. There are those for whom alcohol is not a problem. For others, one glass is too much and a thousand not enough. On the matter of culture. If the cultural practice does not replace or substitute Christ or His work then it is ok. Many cultural practices can be used as illustrations or analogies to point to Christ but not replace Him. |
|
|
|
Post by Nikkol on Aug 1, 2005 12:07:43 GMT -5
How would that correspond with this verse?
1Cr 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and thatthere be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
This question is for everyone/anyone.
Actually, this verse may go with another question as well.......
|
|
|
|
Post by kanyon on Aug 1, 2005 12:52:16 GMT -5
How would that correspond with this verse? 1Cr 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and thatthere be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. This question is for everyone/anyone. Actually, this verse may go with another question as well....... The existance of this forum shows that it is possible for those of different denominational and ethnic backgrounds to celebrate the unity that Jesus prayed for in John's gospel. The diversity of culture, (how a people eat, dress and express themselves) rooted in the basics of the gospel, provides for a beautiful garden of praise unto our God. |
|
