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Post by Anointed Teacher on Jul 28, 2005 8:10:09 GMT -5
We have not yet come in the unity of faith and of knowledge of the Son of God, into a perfect man, to the measure of stature to the fullness of Christ.
Right on this board we have conflict in the area of teaching. To cover head or not to cover head; to be baptized in Jesus' Name only or in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost; to wear pant not to wear pant. to tithes or tithing not for today; even when it come to offering, there no direct scripture on how to conduct a offering, but people have their law of what is sin and what not sin and what is false and what not false.
We embrace one form of teaching and curse the other that we not used to. God didn't give one person everything. He gave us parts, so in order to get the 100%, we must unite and receive from each other. No one at this point is 100% correct, even the Apostle and Bishop, lack something, this cause them to alway seek God and stay teachable. They will make mistakes and sometime be off a little too.
AT
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 28, 2005 12:07:20 GMT -5
We have been told taccording to the scripture to:
Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Can we be perfect? Yes, for scripture tells us that. Yet many find that they aren't because sometimes we don't:
Proverbs 3:5-6 Read This Chapter
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Yet, why do we lean to our OWN understanding is because we don't do as Paul told us which is to remember that:
Ga 2:20 -
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
The problem is that many have a tendency of living on their own will rather than God's. Even in all the differences of opinion, there is an absolute truth. Just like in biblical times their was a discussion on "to circumcise or not to circumcise", there was a discussion and a decision was made. Honestly, things would be better if we still did the same thing today. I believe that we should ALL teach the same things and have the same standard.
Could you elaborate on this statement? Additionally, how does it relate to the fact that when we speak in front of a congregation (or anyone for that matter but for this discussion the congregation) what we should say should be solely thus saith the Lord and should be 100% correct?
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Post by keita on Jul 28, 2005 12:52:45 GMT -5
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Can we be perfect? Yes, for scripture tells us that. Yet many find that they aren't because sometimes we don't: Proverbs 3:5-6 Read This Chapter 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Yet, why do we lean to our OWN understanding is because we don't do as Paul told us which is to remember that: Ga 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Now that's what I call "Connecting the Jots"!  |
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Post by krazeeboi on Jul 28, 2005 14:52:27 GMT -5
I do believe in some areas in which we have liberty; some matters are matters of the individual conscience.
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Post by Anointed Teacher on Jul 28, 2005 14:58:30 GMT -5
We have been told taccording to the scripture to: Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Can we be perfect? Yes, for scripture tells us that. Yet many find that they aren't because sometimes we don't: Who say we can't? I didn't, we just don't have everything, we all lack some form of teaching. We have not arise yet to be that perfect man. That scripture can easily be taken out of content. What perfection is the scripture talking about? Walking in holiness? Upright? are knowing everything? You have your own understanding of what I posted. Do it mean we know everything in the Word of God? NO, We are in Continuous Education in the Word of God. We can study a scripture a dozen time and find something new. Every body not open to receive Revelation Knowledge. We are capable of making mistakes in our teaching. Do that mean we imperfect? Depend on what you define perfect. We can talk holiness and be perfect, for God is perfect and make mistakes. Who standard is right? Your? There are many teaching and standard right on this board, I disagree with. The scripture tell us when we come into the unity of faith, there would be no need for Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers. We are far from unity of faith. We are not there yet, so NOBODY Arise YET. We have not yet come in the unity of faith and of knowledge of the Son of God, into a perfect man, to the measure of stature to the fullness of Christ. We know that Prophecy and teaching are different. Even in Prophecy, a prophet can speak his own word as Elijah and Samuel did, or directly from the Lord. God did not let Samuel's Word, not His Word fall to the ground. Teaching in the Word of God being taught by man, not God, unless it is prophetic teaching. God do allow us to make mistake, evening teaching and prophesying. You will not find a perfect teacher, prophet, pastor or even church. No one have an 100% AT |
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 28, 2005 16:53:05 GMT -5
We are to be perfect just as God is perfect. This is not based on who we are but the fact that God lives within me. This is why it is not us that should be living but Christ and if Christ is perfect and he lives in us, we should live perfect as well. Which I explained above.
We are always learning more about the Word of God. Yes, anyone is capable of making mistakes. Yet, my point is is that we don't have to. I know that you meant to say God is perfect and doesn't make mistakes. Because God lives in us, we can live like that as well. Not because of US but because of HIM. We should only say what God is saying whether preaching or teaching. Anything else is a dis-service to oneself and to the congregation.
I think that that would be good for a biblical study. Is the body of Christ ready? I think that true body of Christ is ready. For we should already be ready for Jesus to come back. Yet, we know that there are people that are still coming to the faith and therefore, we do need particular people to do certain things in order to win others to Christ....
I wouldn't assume that these prophets just "said things" because they could but rather that prophecy defined as "thus saith the Lord" is what they did. Said thus saith the Lord.
Since GOd doesn't force His will on us, yes a person may make mistakes. But it's not because one has to. Whether it is teaching or preaching, you should say what God is saying. Because once you choose to speak on your own, that's dangerous territory. I do believe that this is why you find many people just getting involved in leadership positions that shouldn't be there. It is a great responsibility to talk in front of the congregation. We are held accountable for what we say. I believe if people really understood that, those that weren't really called wouldn't "go and we'd have more truth being preached and not opinion. People need the Word of God.
You said that there is no perfect preacher, teacher, etc. and I believe that we should start looking for them because I believe if God has told us to be perfect because He is perfect and for us to be Holy for He is Holy and for us to lean to Him and to obey His commandments, why should there be anything less than that? This isn't just for those in leadership but for EVERYONE because God has given us all a ministry that is no more important that anyone else. Being in the ministry of helps is just as important as being a pastor.
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Post by krazeeboi on Jul 30, 2005 17:55:52 GMT -5
Two questions:
1) When Jesus told us to be perfect, what exactly does that mean?
2) What does it mean that a teacher/preacher should only be saying "what God is saying"?
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Post by Anointed Teacher on Jul 30, 2005 18:59:23 GMT -5
I've asked the same question, "what it mean to be perfect? What scripture say teacher/preacher should only speak what God saying?
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 31, 2005 15:37:42 GMT -5
Two questions: 1) When Jesus told us to be perfect, what exactly does that mean? 2) What does it mean that a teacher/preacher should only be saying "what God is saying"? 1. It can be defined as: brought to its end, finished wanting nothing necessary to completeness perfect that which is perfect consummate human integrity and virtue of men full grown, adult, of full age, mature Perfect also means flawless, accurate, and pure At the same time, we are to be perfect just as our father in heaven is perfect. This of course isn't based on anything that WE can do because even our own righteousness is as filthy rags. Yet, we know that because we have God indwelling us as Paul said, it's should be that we are no longer living but Christ. 2. In other words, when a person is teaching a bible study, what they are saying should match up with the Word of God. Praying to ask God what they should teach about because just because you (general) may be studying a particular book of the bible doesn't mean that God won't say "I need you to teach on a different book this week". Additionally, when a person is preaching/teaching, we are to be as the scripture: 1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. A lot of problems occur when people choose to go "on their own" so to speak and "teach" their opinion as gospel. People have a tendency in many instances to really "hold on" to different things that a person says (specifically in a congregation setting since that is what we are referring to) which is why one must be very careful to what they say because one wrong word/sentence/statement can be very detrimental to many people. Does this mean that everyone will do this? No. But I would never want to say that when I am preaching/teaching that it is based on me or what I want to teach or say rather than God. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Jul 31, 2005 15:47:56 GMT -5
Two questions: 1) When Jesus told us to be perfect, what exactly does that mean? 2) What does it mean that a teacher/preacher should only be saying "what God is saying"? 1. It can be defined as: brought to its end, finished wanting nothing necessary to completeness perfect that which is perfect consummate human integrity and virtue of men full grown, adult, of full age, mature Perfect also means flawless, accurate, and pure At the same time, we are to be perfect just as our father in heaven is perfect. This of course isn't based on anything that WE can do because even our own righteousness is as filthy rags. Yet, we know that because we have God indwelling us as Paul said, it's should be that we are no longer living but Christ. Which meaning do you think applies when looking at the context of that particular scripture? Now, I don't have a problem with a person preaching opinion as long as they make it absolutely clear that what they are giving is their own opinion (much as Paul did in 1 Corinthians). However, as far as everything else you've said, it's easy to say that "our preaching should only be based on the Word of God." But that's what EVERYONE claims: those who believe in woman pastors and those who don't; those who believe in water baptism by immersion and those who don't; those who are cessationists and those who are not; those who believe in an episcopal form of church government and those who don't; those who are Calvinist and those who are Arminian; etc. Personally, I think that this can go back to methods of biblical interpretation, but even then, everyone doesn't agree on the same method. There really has to be something objective here; everybody can't go around claiming that the Spirit gave them understanding for a particular passage of scripture and it contradicts what someone else said that the Spirit told them as well. What WE may deem to be "mistakes" in preaching is what someone will claim God told them to say. This is why I am such an advocate of intense, critical study of the scriptures. If a person who is to perform surgery on your body must undergo years of training to qualify him/herself in the medical field, why is it that we feel as though that if "God called me to preach" on Friday, we can just get up and preach the next Sunday? |
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 31, 2005 16:30:09 GMT -5
1. I think that all definitions apply in context being that it is compared to God.
2. I can see how an opinion "could be used", depending upon the topic. But it should definitely be stressed, which some may, but others don't. This is why it is so important to find the "absolute truth". We can all agree that God isn't crazy and that what he is saying to one he's saying to another. Granted we can all get different "revelations" in reading the Word but none should contradict the other.
I do believe that as time continues, there will definitely be a difference in the fact that there will be an absolute truth throughout the body of Christ.
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Post by krazeeboi on Jul 31, 2005 18:19:32 GMT -5
1. I think that all definitions apply in context being that it is compared to God. While all the definitions may apply to God, that does not necessarily mean that they should all apply to US. Furthermore, it it were true that Jesus meant for us to be EVERYTHING that the word "perfect" could possibly mean, then it would appear that we would have the consummation of our salvation on this side; yet, a part of our salvation is still future. We do not get the entire package here. That said, it is very important to understand how context determines usage. Here is the context of the scripture in question: "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:43-48) Of the possible meanings of "perfect" that you posted, it would seem that that context would indicate that the closest meaning here would be "consummate human integrity and virtue," the virtue here being love. Do you mean on all matters, or simply the more "weightier" matters? |
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 31, 2005 18:28:11 GMT -5
1. I think that they can all apply to us if we truly live a life by which we are letting our footsteps be ordered in Him and leaning only to Him and trusting in Him for everything. For if it is that the HG leads us and guides us in ALL truth, I believe that that compasses everything. Granted, most of us don't... but not because it's not possible.
2. All matters. I think that many people are tired of having so many different teachings. I believe that the time will come where issues whether it is clothing, baptism, HG, etc will all have an ABSOLUTE answer and that the line between the truth and the lie will become very great that there will no longer be confusion.
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Post by ybrown on Jul 31, 2005 21:59:53 GMT -5
Matthew 5:43-48 is telling us to be holy and blameless, just like our Heavenly Father. Does being blameless and holy always equate to getting everything right?
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Post by krazeeboi on Aug 1, 2005 2:13:19 GMT -5
1. I think that they can all apply to us if we truly live a life by which we are letting our footsteps be ordered in Him and leaning only to Him and trusting in Him for everything. For if it is that the HG leads us and guides us in ALL truth, I believe that that compasses everything. Granted, most of us don't... but not because it's not possible. Well, I believe that if it is the case that we can be perfect in absolutely every single way that God is perfect in this life, the Matthew 5 passage cannot be used to justify such a concept, because that's not what the context is about. I think that applying such a broad concept to a specific context is a violation of the principles of biblical interpretation. So if it is the case that we can be "perfect" in every sense as God is, some other passage(s) must be used to justify this. I do not believe that it is up to the church to come up with something absolute on ALL matters, for all matters are not really absolute; relativity does come into play in many instances. As a matter of fact, a scripture passage you quoted in the "Spirit of Religion" thread comes into play here: "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts 15:28-29) Apparently, the apostles believed that for new Gentile believers coming into the fold, certain things specific to Gentile culture were to be avoided so as to preserve fellowship with Jewish Christians. While there is more to this passage, it at least shows that there is indeed a realm of liberty beyond what is explicitly proscribed. Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 are relevant passages as well. The fact of the matter is that, even though some have abused it, there IS such a thing as personal conviction. |
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