The Mark: Romans 16:17

[G3]

This thread will generate a lot of heat and I face the possibility of losing a lot of readers because as this thread unfold, it will expose various teachers and their teachings. But if one person is challenged to challendge their own convictions with precepts upon precepts, line upon line and by the examples confirmed by and through the Word, to come out with a firm foundation in the truth, then losing the 99 to gain the one, it would be by far more rewarding.

We are ever so careful when we thread in the area of "Touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harem". Or "Rebuke not an Elder" because we lacked the understanding of it's setting when it was first spoken so we were held in bondage by it that led to our silence in submission to those who ruled over us. On the contrary, we are admonished to "MARK" those who through their gift to expound the gospel has caused a division in the body by their "OVEREXPOSURE" whose image has been imprinted in the minds of the people, a people who has gravitated to these religious icons and desired to emulate them in every fashion. These so called icon are not ashame of their iconic appeal because it is evident by their extravagant lifestyle advocating that "godliness is gain" and "PROPH-A-LIE" that by observing and "PARTNERING" with them in their ministry one could obtain a "BLESSED" status. But the Word of God says "AVOID" them. To "MARK" or to identify. Those who have reach such a level of hypocracy, the bible says nothing about prayer for them. The bible is clear that we are to shun and to avoid such a one. To lay a mark and to sanctify from the flock. Christ is an example when dealing with such a group of heretical religious "LEADERS" or "RULERS", and he gave no example of praying for them. The example He left us was that He exposed them and publicly rebuked them. Paul called it a "SHAME" that they mind earthly things more than God. Regarding false teachers in Hymeneus, Philetus and Alexander cases, the prayer what Paul delivered was, in paraphrase, sickim Satan. He turn them over to Satan for the "DESTRUCTION of the FLESH" so that they will learn not to blaspheme. And that is what these religious icon are promoting, blasphemous teachings.

It is so disturbing how they once was so humble and sanctified in the Lord, but now since "SATAN" has "OPENED" their vision and "SHOWED" them the riches of the world and the "GLORY" of it in a "MOMENT TIME", how so easily they fell (to most they have risen to the height beyond amazment naturally, but spiritually, He has departed) to the "GLORY" of the things. The Kingdom of God is not of meats and drinks, things to be grasped by the hand, but of "RIGHTIOUSNESS and PEACE

[And Such Were Some Of You]

G3/

As I read the other post, (One Question), I too felt the same "leading" to begin such a thread. Therefore, bro. I am with you to "rightly divide".

[Jasmine]

Me again.

No one said Leaders or Pastor's weren't untouchable. No one said they shouldn't be Held accountable.

What type of leaders are we refering to first of all? Leaders who are activily seeking after God, but fall or stumble along the way? Do they not deserve the prayers of the Saints of God? Do they not need to be uplifted?

We are not talking about wolves in sheeps clothing. We are refering to men/women after God's own heart. We may fall over something so simple, just like a pastor or any Leader. And we expect the same thing from everybody..Pray for Me. Why is it such a task to pray for a leader?

Rebuke when it is necessary. No man is untouchable. and with any rebuke.. the purpose is Restoration..the Focus is Love. If those aren't the motives or intent..then I would advise the individual to keep their mouth closed.

I find it ironic, that we would spend more time on our knees praying for the President then we do for God's Chosen.

I also recall Jesus saying to Peter, "I have prayed for you, because Satan desires to shift you as wheat". Don't we think that is the same for leaders? Satan desires are to destroy everything that God is establishing and setting in order.

That includes leadership

Again, such a simple request..Pray.

[And Such Were Some Of You]

who ISN'T praying?

EDITED TO ADD: Please let's keep this thread on the topic at hand (myself included ) as I really feel that this is a thread that is needed. Many times a thread is "hijacked" and what was originally being discussed is lost through the several conversations that is going on within the posts.

[G3]

Jas, this is where we began to single out the distinction between those who have fallen through a stumble (of whom we are commanded to restore in the spirit of meekness) and those whose conscience has been seared through hypocracy and blindness. Who neglect the Truth and refuse to remove the "UNLEAVEN" that has become the whole lump (of whom we are commanded to avoid). Of the "RELIGIOUS SECT" of Yeshua time, He brought a stern rebuke. His rebuke towards them was not to restore "THEM", the religious sect, but in order to introduce and solidify the fulfillment of the Law of Grace. To these religious sects he spoke in parables to"KEEP" in darkness and dull of hearing. But He reveal the Kingdom unto babes. And as babes we enter into His Kingdom. Now those of the religious sect such as Nick at Night (Nicodemus) who would "HUMBLE THEMSELVES" and come unto Him He in no way cast out. We must be as Samuel and "LOOK BEYOND THE VEIL" or the "OUTER APPEARANCES" and allow the Holy Spirit reveal the heart. In this revelation one must see and distinguish between a "HEART'S DESIRE" and a "HEART'S CONVICTION".

If this thread unfold accordingly, as I believe it will, we will be confronted with a reality that is unavoidable, especially when dealing with God Truth and the truths of man. Many foundational truths of one's faith will be leveled to the ground because, in reality their faith has been in these broken cisterns and stored up in these religious icons.

Just as the challendge of Yeshua to "HIS DISCIPLES" to drink of His blood and to eat of His flesh in order to distinguish between the authentic and the fake, so shall this threading present a challendge in order to distinguish the two.

A "Master Builder" knows that in order to build a strong structure one must "DIG DEEP" before one build up. And if there is an existing foundational structure everything must be demolished before that what is new be built.

[ybrown]

"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." - 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

The dangerous thing about false teachers is that they look and sound righteous and good on the surface. They even appear as "ministers of righteousness" by teaching messages that are socially and religiously acceptable to most ordinary people in the society. Jesus warned that at the end of the age, many people would arise who would be saying that Christ was indeed the Messiah of the world, but even though they did this, they would still be great deceivers.

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall deceive many.” - Matthew 24:4-5.

Christ predicted that MANY would even "prophesy" in his name with many wonderful signs and works, but they would still be considered by Christ to be iniquitous "prophets." Many means a lot.

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:21-23.

If you hold up your doctrine unto the Lord and ask Him to purge that which is not of Him, there will be a loud crash. That crash will be a powerful toppling of what you thought you knew, as it comes crashing down. But that loudness will also be that of God rocking your world with His truths. You'll never be able to go back to those doctrines of men who don't speak His heart and mind.

[Jasmine]

andsuchweresomeofu said:

who ISN'T praying?

EDITED TO ADD: Please let's keep this thread on the topic at hand (myself included ) as I really feel that this is a thread that is needed. Many times a thread is "hijacked" and what was originally being discussed is lost through the several conversations that is going on within the posts.

Isn't..I would say some of "zion" aint.

Also, I believe that I am in order with the post. I didn't come with an intent to hijack

[And Such Were Some Of You]

jasmine said:

andsuchweresomeofu said:

who ISN'T praying?

EDITED TO ADD: Please let's keep this thread on the topic at hand (myself included ) as I really feel that this is a thread that is needed. Many times a thread is "hijacked" and what was originally being discussed is lost through the several conversations that is going on within the posts.

Isn't..I would say some of "zion" aint.

Also, I believe that I am in order with the post. I didn't come with an intent to hijack

That comment wasn't meant for you specifically - it was meant for ALL, myself included.

[Jasmine]

ASWSOY,
I gathered that.

Ybrown,

If you hold up your doctrine unto the Lord and ask Him to purge that which is not of Him, there will be a loud crash. That crash will be a powerful toppling of what you thought you knew, as it comes crashing down. But that loudness will also be that of God rocking your world with His truths. You'll never be able to go back to those doctrines of men who don't speak His heart and mind.

This is a profound statement, however why stop at doctrine? Our Ism's and Sism's, should be purged of whats not of Him. Our Perceptions, opinions, and preconceived notions should be purged of whats not of God. I find that when we let go of ourselves period, we will never be the same. Our mind can then be renewed and we can take on the mind of Christ. Not only will we turn away from doctrines that appease the flesh, we will turn away from everything including a doctrine thats not Like God in its entirety.

God has given us His SPIRIT. Its His spirit that should leads us. God does not slack in his blessings, so I believe that when Jesus said that the Comforter, whom my father shall send after I leave, shall guide you into all truth. I believe He did just that.

If we have Truth on the inside, how can one continuously be deceived?

[And Such Were Some Of You]

Matthew Henry Commentary

Romans 16: 17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

The apostle having endeavoured by his endearing salutations to unite them together, it was not improper to subjoin a caution to take heed of those whose principles and practices were destructive to Christian love. And we may observe,

I. The caution itself, which is given in the most obliging manner that could be: I beseech you, brethren. He does not will and command, as one that lorded it over God's heritage, but for love's sake beseeches. How earnest, how endearing, are Paul's exhortations! He teaches them,

1. To see their danger: Mark those who cause divisions and offences. Our Master had himself foretold that divisions and offences would come, but had entailed a woe on those by whom they come (Matt. xviii. 7), and against such we are here cautioned. Those who burden the church with dividing and offending impositions, who uphold and enforce those impositions, who introduce and propagate dividing and offending notions, which are erroneous or justly suspected, who out of pride, ambition, affectation of novelty, or the like, causelessly separate from their brethren, and by perverse disputes, censures, and evil surmisings, alienate the affections of Christians one from another--these cause divisions and offences, contrary to, or different from (for that also is implied, it is para ten didachen), the doctrine which we have learned. Whatever varies from the form of sound doctrine which we have in the scriptures opens a door to divisions and offences. If truth be once deserted, unity and peace will not last long. Now, mark those that thus cause divisions, skopein. Observe them, the method they take, the end they drive at. There is need of a piercing watchful eye to discern the danger we are in from such people; for commonly the pretences are plausible, when the projects are very pernicious. Do not look only at the divisions and offences, but run up those streams to the fountain, and mark those that cause them, and especially that in them which causes these divisions and offences, those lusts on each side whence come these wars and fightings. A danger discovered is half prevented.

2. To shun it: "Avoid them. Shun all necessary communion and communication with them, lest you be leavened and infected by them. Do not strike in with any dividing interests, nor embrace any of those principles or practices which are destructive to Christian love and charity, or to the truth which is according to godliness.--Their word will eat as doth a canker." Some think he especially warns them to take heed of the judaizing teachers, who, under convert of the Christian name, kept up the Mosaical ceremonies, and preached the necessity of them, who were industrious in all places to draw disciples after them, and whom Paul in most of his epistles cautions the churches to take heed of.

[And Such Were Some Of You]

When we are born again, we receive the Spirit of God, yes, this is true. However, there is what one would call "a babe in Christ" and then there is the "mature Christian (one who knows the meat of the Word)". Paul, as well as Peter makes this distinction in the Word. As long as one is on milk - they are unskilled in the things of the Lord and therefore it would be difficult for them to discern between the good and evil that may be presented from the man/woman of God.

It is for this reason that Paul is telling us to "mark" and "avoid", - because of the hearts of the simple (gullible, babes, etc.). They are so trusting and willing to believe anything. Just like an infant - they trust those that are to be in authority and expect nothing less than the truth to come from them. As one matures then no, they should not continuously be deceived. But until that time...................................

[And Such Were Some Of You]

You know G3, as I continue to read your initial post in this thread - I see that the problem is not just with the man/woman of God who is delivering the Word but the one viewing this man/woman of God and then begin to idolize them.

[anointedteacher]

The most dangerous people are not those in the pulpit, but in the pews.... that sow discord. There are a few leaders that should be mark, but it is mostly those who sit among the people, who goes from person to person gossiping about their Brothers and Sisters in Christ, the leaders and the church that do more harm to God's people.

People who come against leaderships openly and to individuals causes great harm.... 99.9% of the time.... the leaders they usually come against are not false teachers, false prophet, false pastor etc., but are true men or women of God who may have some issues, faults and not completely perfect.....

True False Apostles, False Prophets, False Evangelists, False Pastors and False Teachers need to be Marked.... Mr. & Mrs, Busybody that goes from house to house with foolishness need to be Marked. There is a different between false ministers, and those who are immature and those who have issues.

AT

[ybrown]

andsuchweresomeofu said:

When we are born again, we receive the Spirit of God, yes, this is true. However, there is what one would call "a babe in Christ" and then there is the "mature Christian (one who knows the meat of the Word)". Paul, as well as Peter makes this distinction in the Word. As long as one is on milk - they are unskilled in the things of the Lord and therefore it would be difficult for them to discern between the good and evil that may be presented from the man/woman of God.

It is for this reason that Paul is telling us to "mark" and "avoid", - because of the hearts of the simple (gullible, babes, etc.). They are so trusting and willing to believe anything. Just like an infant - they trust those that are to be in authority and expect nothing less than the truth to come from them. As one matures then no, they should not continuously be deceived. But until that time...................................

ASWSOY, excellent. This is God's thought process. You revealed the spirit behind His words to us. Thank you.

[And Such Were Some Of You]

anointedteacher said:

The most dangerous people are not those in the pulpit, but in the pews.... that sow discord. There are a few leaders that should be mark, but it is mostly those who sit among the people, who goes from person to person gossiping about their Brothers and Sisters in Christ, the leaders and the church that do more harm to God's people.

People who come against leaderships openly and to individuals causes great harm.... 99.9% of the time.... the leaders they usually come against are not false teachers, false prophet, false pastor etc., but are true men or women of God who may have some issues, faults and not completely perfect.....

True False Apostles, False Prophets, False Evangelists, False Pastors and False Teachers need to be Marked.... Mr. & Mrs, Busybody that goes from house to house with foolishness need to be Marked. There is a different between false ministers, and those who are immature and those who have issues.

AT

True indeed, however...

Paul is specifically talking of those that cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned;

Therefore, this would go beyond "gossip" and "backbiting".