|
|
Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 8, 2006 13:01:03 GMT -5
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Where did we ever get that these two scriptures deals with binding/loosing satan/demons? What does it mean (in contexxt)to be bound or loosed?
Again, I am in a process of getting to the "truth" of all things that are being taught in the church. We as a people seem to just take on anything that we are taught and continue to use it, yet we wonder why we are not successful in it.
What is true spiritual warfare?
|
|
|
|
Post by krazeeboi on Aug 8, 2006 13:06:32 GMT -5
That last question deserves a thread in and of itself. But as far as binding and loosing goes, here's a great article on the subject. |
|
|
|
Post by ybrown on Aug 8, 2006 14:22:04 GMT -5
I have to admit, I used to love Bishop Bloomer’s teachings on curses and spiritual warfare and such. It sounded interesting and it seemed to address some questions that I had about my family history. But now when I put it up against the Word, it doesn’t hold up.
Everything nowadays is based on story upon story, experience upon experience, incident upon incident, and what has happened is that we’ve created all types of doctrines that are based solely on those things.
That’s how we get false teachings that say Christians can become demon possessed; inherit curses from parents (my baby’s flat feet ends here – that made me holla’ LANL) Christians need deliverance before attaining salvation; saints need to speak the demonic out of their lives; Christians bossing Satan around by rebuking, binding, taking authority over him, or running him out of town, usually by sundown, all in the name of Jesus; demonic strongholds even after the forgiveness of sins, etc.
These kinds of beliefs are just superstition, wives tales, and traditions - the result of false mystical experiences which when held up, do not match up with the teaching of Holy Writ.
A common misconception within the church is that the mystical and the supernatural are synonymous, and they most certainly are not. I’m observing that we’re really dabbling more and more into pagan mysticism. We’re at a point now that the typical Christian can easily be persuaded by the pragmatic and magnetisms of men (i.e., sincerity of the teacher and "it seems to help people") rather than Biblical doctrine.
At what point did the Word start riding shotgun to people’s experiences?
|
|
|
|
Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 8, 2006 15:16:40 GMT -5
I have to admit, I used to love Bishop Bloomer’s teachings on curses and spiritual warfare and such. It sounded interesting and it seemed to address some questions that I had about my family history. But now when I put it up against the Word, it doesn’t hold up. Amen! Yes, and it just grieves me how we have come so far away from the Word of God. Preach preacha!  again, amen! A question I have been asking for some time now.  |
|
|
|
Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 8, 2006 15:17:27 GMT -5
That last question deserves a thread in and of itself. yeah I thought of that. I read that article before, and you are correct - very good article. The questions I asked regarding binding and loosing (in the initial post, I asked in hope to cause one to think. I know what it means according to scripture. |
|
|
|
Post by livinganewlife on Aug 8, 2006 16:36:59 GMT -5
I?m observing that we?re really dabbling more and more into pagan mysticism. You said something right there!!!! I feel that all down in me...... Especially in Pentecostal churches (because that's ALL I know) some of our practices are borderline witchcraft and no one wants to talk about it........ lemme just |
|
|
|
Post by krazeeboi on Aug 9, 2006 0:59:52 GMT -5
Actually, our chief apostle has long held that a lot of what is passing as the "excercising of spiritual gifts," particularly the words of knowledge and wisdom, is nothing more than witchcraft.
|
|
|
|
Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 9, 2006 5:16:58 GMT -5
Actually, our chief apostle has long held that a lot of what is passing as the "excercising of spiritual gifts," particularly the words of knowledge and wisdom, is nothing more than witchcraft. Interesting, please explain. |
|
|
|
Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 9, 2006 5:43:58 GMT -5
Revelation 20:1-3 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
I don't pretend to be an expert on this subject at all - I am simply trying to put together what the bible says first about binding and loosing and secondly about "spiritual warfare". I am sure that there are many who are knowledgeable in this subject and I hope they jump on board to bring some clarity.
Ok, my question is this, we do not read about satan being bound until Revelation 20 and then it is only for a season. We do not read anywhere in the Epistles where demons/satan were bound, so where do we get it from?
Before I continue allow me to say that I do believe that satan and demons exist. I believe that there are times when a demon has to be cast out of individuals (though some things we try to cast out are simply works of the flesh - which cannot be cast out!). I often go back to the ministry of Jesus Christ when dealing with such matters, for he is our true mentor. However, there are many many many books out there with this information but I have not read one in which they can relate the "binding and loosing" to demonic activity. I also believe that some of these "deliverance" ministries focus too much on satan and his demons and not enough on the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
I believe B5 is very knowledgeable in this area - can you help out, sis?
|
|
|
|
Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 9, 2006 6:57:55 GMT -5
Okay before I start work, I just thought of something...
In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Basically he granted authority to either "forbid" or "permit" something to be (although people still take this out in left field as I believe that even with that, it is all according to the will of God). Is this where it comes from as it relates to demonic activity? Thus, "forbiding" a demon to manifest and "permiting" something, such as the "fruit of the spirit" to manifest in its place?
|
|
|
|
Post by krazeeboi on Aug 9, 2006 14:10:25 GMT -5
Actually, our chief apostle has long held that a lot of what is passing as the "excercising of spiritual gifts," particularly the words of knowledge and wisdom, is nothing more than witchcraft. Interesting, please explain. He explained it in a book that I have since long lost. If I come across the info again, I'll make sure to post it here. |
|
|
|
Post by krazeeboi on Aug 9, 2006 14:11:54 GMT -5
Okay before I start work, I just thought of something... In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Basically he granted authority to either "forbid" or "permit" something to be (although people still take this out in left field as I believe that even with that, it is all according to the will of God). Is this where it comes from as it relates to demonic activity? Thus, "forbiding" a demon to manifest and "permiting" something, such as the "fruit of the spirit" to manifest in its place? I think the article I gave the link to gave a pretty good answer. |
|
|
|
Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 9, 2006 15:11:55 GMT -5
Okay before I start work, I just thought of something... In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom. Basically he granted authority to either "forbid" or "permit" something to be (although people still take this out in left field as I believe that even with that, it is all according to the will of God). Is this where it comes from as it relates to demonic activity? Thus, "forbiding" a demon to manifest and "permiting" something, such as the "fruit of the spirit" to manifest in its place? I think the article I gave the link to gave a pretty good answer. But how is the article relating to binding and loosing demons? |
|
|
|
Post by ybrown on Aug 9, 2006 15:27:48 GMT -5
I don't see Matthew 16:19 having to do with spiritual warfare.
This passage is specific to Peter regarding his authority in making decisions in establishing the church. Jesus was telling him that the decisions he made would be honored by God. The church was a new entity and Peter was charged with making decisions regarding situations not covered in scriptures.
I think a lot of us come from backgrounds that really emphasized spiritual warfare and deliverance. While that type of ministry can be helpful, for some for a season, eventually it can also became very frustrating, as the devil is prayed against way too much, has way too many songs sung about him, and is glorified in an excessive way by having things attributed to him that he probably wasn't even involved with at all! It really can cause people to become downright superstitious about getting in his territory!
We complicate things so much; however, I do recognize that warfare really is against anything that has people in bondage. But what we must keep in mind is that our wars are not fought in the flesh; they are fought in the spirit.
2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Jesus battled principalities and strongholds both in life and on the cross and He won. His was a war; ours are mere battles in comparison. I hope it doesn’t seem like I’m minimizing them because I’m not. I just recognize that the hardest work has already been done. We just have to walk in it.
Even in our battles, shouldn’t we follow in the footsteps of our Elder Brother? He submitted to the Father AND bore the Cross. Shouldn't we do the same?
We have to face strongholds, dilemmas, principalities, whatever, squarely, and offer ourselves as living sacrifices. Whether it’s fear, anxiety, indecisiveness, lust, smoking, I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God.
This is spiritual warfare. This is what kills the carnal, and as you succeed in the battle (or battles), you will climb off the Tree of Death and approach the Tree of Life. This is also the process of holiness and sanctification.
As we move further away from that which separates us from God, we actually move closer to Him and become more like Him.
|
|
|
|
Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 9, 2006 17:36:47 GMT -5
I don't see Matthew 16:19 having to do with spiritual warfare. This passage is specific to Peter regarding his authority in making decisions in establishing the church. Jesus was telling him that the decisions he made would be honored by God. The church was a new entity and Peter was charged with making decisions regarding situations not covered in scriptures. I think a lot of us come from backgrounds that really emphasized spiritual warfare and deliverance. While that type of ministry can be helpful, for some for a season, eventually it can also became very frustrating, as the devil is prayed against way too much, has way too many songs sung about him, and is glorified in an excessive way by having things attributed to him that he probably wasn't even involved with at all! It really can cause people to become downright superstitious about getting in his territory! We complicate things so much; however, I do recognize that warfare really is against anything that has people in bondage. But what we must keep in mind is that our wars are not fought in the flesh; they are fought in the spirit. 2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.Jesus battled principalities and strongholds both in life and on the cross and He won. His was a war; ours are mere battles in comparison. I hope it doesn’t seem like I’m minimizing them because I’m not. I just recognize that the hardest work has already been done. We just have to walk in it. Even in our battles, shouldn’t we follow in the footsteps of our Elder Brother? He submitted to the Father AND bore the Cross. Shouldn't we do the same? We have to face strongholds, dilemmas, principalities, whatever, squarely, and offer ourselves as living sacrifices. Whether it’s fear, anxiety, indecisiveness, lust, smoking, I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God. This is spiritual warfare. This is what kills the carnal, and as you succeed in the battle (or battles), you will climb off the Tree of Death and approach the Tree of Life. This is also the process of holiness and sanctification. As we move further away from that which separates us from God, we actually move closer to Him and become more like Him. Amen, this is exactly what I believe |
|
