Ear Piercings......

[Hischild]

What is acceptable in the church world?

[And Such Were Some Of You]

I don't understand your question.

[Hischild]

Can you have 2 holes in each ear without it being contriversial?

[stillfocused]

What is acceptable in the church world ??!! From that perspective nothing is acceptable..because what one maybe able to do; another maybe not be able to do. What has the HOLY SPIRIT spoken to you concerning ths matter ? The Holy Spirit will bring conviction..and if it's anything other than that, the Word of God, or the Spirit of Truth..the door then opens for condemnation to creep in..

It just reminds of the rules of no pants, no lipstick, and on and on and on.....

[krazeeboi]

Two things to think about here:

1) How does this affect your relationship with the saints?

2) How does this affect your witness?

I realize the first question can get sticky, depending on the circles you run in, but the second is a bit more to the point.

One thing we need to realize is that we are not accountable to ourselves.

[Hischild]

Thanks for you input guys!!

[keita]

For those who choose (and/or dare ) to go "deeper" on this question, I submit this article for your consideration:

Did Our Lord Yeshua Wear Earrings?

Interesting read...

[krazeeboi]

Most certainly an interesting read. However, I see three disconnects.

From the article:

I recall mentioning (during a sermon I gave one pagan Sunday morning service) that the Messiah wore earrings.

Here is the scriptural basis given for that:

"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears have you pierced" (Ps 40.6). "The Lord God has pierced my ear, and I was not rebellious" (Isa 50.5 Hebrew).

Therein lies the first disconnect. Since when was having one's ear pierced the same as wearing earrings in that pierced ear???

The second qualm I have is with the interpretation of the Messianic Psalm. It is obvious that in those Psalms that have prophetic Messianic references that everything in the entire Psalm does not apply to the Messiah. We can look at Psalms 40 for proof of that, which the writer has cited. Verse 12 says, "For innumerable dangers surround me. My sins overtake me so I am unable to see; they outnumber the hairs of my head so my strength fails me." Now we know that this does not pertain to the Messiah at all, since it speaks of the subject as having sins. Therefore, I do not see how the reference to pierced ears (or as the KJV reads, "mine ears hast thou opened") is warranted as being applicable to the Messiah here, and this would be even more specifically so since the NT writer of Hebrews applied a portion of Psalms 40 to the Messiah, and the reference to pierced ears is left out (Hebrews 10:5). One would think that if that part was also applicable to the Messiah that it would have been cited as well.

The third disconnect I have is with the translations of the verses given to support the notion that Jesus wore earrings. While they may be faithful to the original language, it's obvious that the piercing of the ear is figurative in nature. For instance, Isaiah 50:5 (which was cited as scriptural support) says, "The sovereign Lord has spoken to me clearly; I have not rebelled, I have not turned back" (NET). The NIV says, "The Sovereign LORD has opened my ears, and I have not been rebellious; I have not drawn back." It's obviously that this verse is speaking spiritually, that is, in terms of the Messiah hearing clearly from YHWH: "...all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you" (John 15:15). If we take Isaiah 50:5 literally, I suppose we would be forced to conclude that anyone with their ears pierced are hearing from God.

[keita]

GREAT (and thorough) work, bro kb!

krazeeboi said:

Most certainly an interesting read.

"Interesting" is really about as far as I went with the article, so I'm glad we agree about that assessment of it.

But to this question,

Since when was having one's ear pierced the same as wearing earrings in that pierced ear???

I would offer the observation that while having a pierced ear and wearing earrings are not the same thing, a pierced ear with no earring tends to eventually close up. Perhaps that is "figuratively/spiritually" true as well?

On a more general note, frankly, I don't think God is even remotely concerned one way or the other about whether or not church folks pierce their ears, at least not literally/naturally/fashionably. And, imho, at and in a time such as this, it's a subject that belongs under the category of "straining out gnats".

Only my opinion.

[keita]

LOL!

I just remembered this song (telling my age) which was often sung in a church I once attended...


"Pierce my ear, O Lord my God.
Take me to your door this day.
I will serve no other god.
Lord, I’m here to stay.
For you have paid the price for me.
With your blood you have ransomed me.
I will serve you eternally.
A free man I’ll never be."

[auneeqsol]

Whoa.....now i thought that I had heard it all!!!

LOL that's a new one for me, does it have a shoutin music tune to it? LOL Just kiddin

But yeah that sounds like one of the back in the day ones...

[krazeeboi]

keita said:

But to this question,

Since when was having one's ear pierced the same as wearing earrings in that pierced ear???

I would offer the observation that while having a pierced ear and wearing earrings are not the same thing, a pierced ear with no earring tends to eventually close up. Perhaps that is "figuratively/spiritually" true as well?

Interesting. I haven't been wearing an earring in my left ear for a few years now, but I do know that the hole is still open.

I just don't think we can go beyond what the text tells us.

On a more general note, frankly, I don't think God is even remotely concerned one way or the other about whether or not church folks pierce their ears, at least not literally/naturally/fashionably. And, imho, at and in a time such as this, it's a subject that belongs under the category of "straining out gnats".

I do think that God is concerned about the messages we convey in a convoluted culture such as ours. It's not about, "What can I do and get away with?" but "What am I willing to give up for the sake of the Kingdom?" It's not a salvational issue, but it's definitely an issue of maturity.

[keita]

Bro kb,

First, I feel the need to be absolutely clear that I truly honor and respect (though presently do not share) what I see as your (and anyone else's) obviously very strong personal conviction on this matter. I am, in no way, arguing for or against ear piercing amongst the saints. And while, like you, I certainly found that article I shared to be interesting, I'm most definitely not tripping over or trying to debate whether Jesus wore one or more earrings either. I'm merely participating in the conversation simply because it moved in a direction that is indeed edifying to me.

Now having said that...

When I wrote:

keita said:

But to this question,

Since when was having one's ear pierced the same as wearing earrings in that pierced ear???

I would offer the observation that while having a pierced ear and wearing earrings are not the same thing, a pierced ear with no earring tends to eventually close up. Perhaps that is "figuratively/spiritually" true as well?

the question I posed was actually responding to (and quite excitedly!) following YOUR (imho, far more fruitful) lead from the natural to the spiritual on this matter when you wrote:

While they may be faithful to the original language, it's obvious that the piercing of the ear is figurative in nature.

[/b][/quote]

It was, in fact, that very "shift" which piqued any interest I might have in continued discussion of this subject. And that's still where I am as I read your words:

I haven't been wearing an earring in my left ear for a few years now, but I do know that the hole is still open.

and say "Amen!" to them. That's because, without getting all biological about it, (but keeping in mind that scripture surely does say something important about "first the natural") how long it will be before, and even whether or not that hole in your ear ever closes up, has much to do with factors like how long it was there before the earring was removed, how much scar tissue developed, etc.

So, and again figuratively/spiritually speaking, maybe it really is all about "the piercing" itself and not so much the earring(s)?

krazeeboi said:

I just don't think we can go beyond what the text tells us.

Now, I'm assuming you're referring to the texts cited in the article we read, since those are the only scripture references I see in this thread. If that's the case, I agree with you that the brother was truly stretching with a lot of that. I also agree that "beyond" God's word and Word is truly and always the wrong direction.
But as both that author, and you, with your work on this thread, have shown (at least to me), "beyond" need and is not to be confused with "deeper" or "higher".

krazeeboi said:

I do think that God is concerned about the messages we convey in a convoluted culture such as ours. It's not about, "What can I do and get away with?" but "What am I willing to give up for the sake of the Kingdom?"

Indeed! However, imho, the liberty which is found in Christ is a BIG and often seriously missing part of our effectively conveying God's message in true integrity. Certainly, we don't want to be found creating bondage for anyone or adding burdens which have no scriptural basis. Therefore, we must also be especially careful about preaching, teaching or confusing that which is often deeply held, even perfectly legitimate personal/doctrinal/denominational conviction as or with "GOD said..." That's just one of the many things I most appreciate about our brother Paul.

krazeeboi said:

It's not a salvational issue, but it's definitely an issue of maturity.

LOL! Now, I'm not quite sure what the "it" is that you're referring to. I can only hope that "it" is not whether or not saints pierce their ears and that you are not even remotely implying that those who do/have are exhibiting some kind of spiritual immaturity....

On the other hand, if you are, as I do believe, speaking of us as saints choosing to subjugate our liberty for the sake of the gospel, esteeming others more highly than ourselves, and/or not desiring to offend or stumble anyone, then I (along with Paul) am in complete agreement with you.

[keita]

auneeqsol said:

Whoa.....now i thought that I had heard it all!!!

LOL that's a new one for me, does it have a shoutin music tune to it? LOL Just kiddin

But yeah that sounds like one of the back in the day ones...

LOLOL!

Naw, sis, there definitely wasn't no shoutin' even thinking about looking like it might be trying to be going on up on that house! In fact, doing so might have gotten a saint committed to a psychiatric hospital...and still would today. And, believe me it was/is sho' nuff' "back in the day", especially for this now shouting, dancing keita, lol! But I truly learned a lot there...

As I recall, that song was in a hymn book. But what's most relevant to me about remembering it is that, until this thread, I never even had a thought or a clue about where the (scriptural) inspiration for that song might have come from or if it even had any, and truly wouldn't have cared. Now, and again as a result of this thread, I'm seeing that it probably came from some combination of Exodus 21:1-6/Psalms 40:6-7/Isa. 50:5-6.

(Btw, God has really been dealing with me for some time about more closely examining and better judging the words of what I/we sing...especially in praise and worship. So I receive that particular 'flashback' as just one more blessing I got from participating in this thread.

Shabbat Shalom, y'all!

[krazeeboi]

Indeed! However, imho, the liberty which is found in Christ is a BIG and often seriously missing part of our effectively conveying God's message in true integrity. Certainly, we don't want to be found creating bondage for anyone or adding burdens which have no scriptural basis. Therefore, we must also be especially careful about preaching, teaching or confusing that which is often deeply held, even perfectly legitimate personal/doctrinal/denominational conviction as or with "GOD said..." That's just one of the many things I most appreciate about our brother Paul.

This can be just such a sticky subject altogether. However, I will say that for me, I wouldn't want to invoke my liberties at the expense of a rift in fellowship with the saints or to the point of legitimately compromising my testimonty among sinners. Firstly, I should know the "house rules" of the church/denomination I choose to affiliate with to begin with, and if I choose to affiliate with that church/denomination, to abide by what has been established.

LOL! Now, I'm not quite sure what the "it" is that you're referring to. I can only hope that "it" is not whether or not saints pierce their ears and that you are not even remotely implying that those who do/have are exhibiting some kind of spiritual immaturity....

On the other hand, if you are, as I do believe, speaking of us as saints choosing to subjugate our liberty for the sake of the gospel, esteeming others more highly than ourselves, and/or not desiring to offend or stumble anyone, then I (along with Paul) am in complete agreement with you.

Most definitely the latter.