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Post by MsKayLander on Sept 14, 2007 16:21:50 GMT -5
Aint pastors just people with a nice shirt and a collar  LOL... you know what I mean bro.. Don't make me get misskay on ya homie.. |
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Post by anointed on Sept 14, 2007 16:22:41 GMT -5
Miss Kay, don't worry. I will make sure to mention to Obama to make the crime of hijacking one of his priorities to combat... somebody got to put a stop to it  Okay, since you all are mentioning the rapture, I'll give you pgs. 135-137 of Eberle and Trench's book. It is the first segment of the rapture view as it relates to Victorious Eschatology: The Victorious View of the Second Coming
As we explained earlier, teachers of victorious eschatology believe Daniel's seventieth week happened during the First Century, immediately following the 69 weeks revealed in Daniel chapter nine. Therefore, they do not envision any special seven-year period in the future. They do not see two parts to the second coming of Jesus, separated by seven years. Rather, they see it all happening in one grand event.
Victorious eschatology depicts the rapture in the following way.
Jesus will continue to build His Church, and though Christians will face many trials and setbacks, they will experience more successes than failures. This progressive building will continue until the "Last Day," a day which only God knows. On that day, without any warning signs, Jesus Christ will return in the clouds and every eye will see Him. All believers -living and dead- will be caught up to meet Him as He returns. As they ascend to Jesus, believers will be transformed, their bodies being changed into glorified bodies. Then Jesus will purge the Earth of evil and send the unrighteous to their eternal destiny. He will reward the righteous according to their deeds. This will be the Final Judgement, after which Jesus will defend to the New Earth with all of the Christians to rule and reign forever.
Notice that in this rapture, Christians will not be taken away to heaven for seven years. They will be "caught up," much as a hen would gather her chicks under her wings. Jesus will protect His people while He purges the Earth of evil, then bring the believers down to Earth with Him. For this reason we made the distinction earlier, that the Greek word harpazo is more accurately translated "caught up" rather than "caught away." Christians will not be taken away into heaven but they will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and then descend to Earth to rule and reign with Jesus.
*At this point readers trained in eschatology may wonder where we fit the millenial reign of Jesus, and although we do not deal with that subject in this book, there are several good books recommended in Bibliography II, including Harold R. Eberle's Bringing the Future into Focus.
When Jesus appears in the sky, His presence will bring an end to sin and an end to history as we know it. The heavens and Earth will go through a metamorphosis, becoming the New Heavens and New Earth. All these things -the resurrection of the dead, the catching up of believers, the return of Christ, the final judgment, and the New Creation- all will happen at the one time, on the same day, the Great and Awesome Day of the Lord.
Please allow us to show you why the victorious view of the rapture is more Scriptural than the popular endtime view.TO BE CONTINUED... |
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Post by Beck on Sept 14, 2007 16:42:59 GMT -5
LOL... you know what I mean bro.. Don't make me get misskay on ya homie.. |
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Post by MsKayLander on Sept 14, 2007 16:50:59 GMT -5
See, I'm here minding my own business and now you trying to get me started with Giants... Okay, just in case you don't know... his name is GIANTS!!!! That means something to me.... you better not tell him I am coming... BECK: You gonna get me fired.... I am sitting here HOLLERING!!!! You are too funny!!!!!! |
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Post by anointed on Sept 14, 2007 16:57:24 GMT -5
 I am mad that this post is being hijacked ... like really.
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Post by MsKayLander on Sept 14, 2007 17:09:11 GMT -5
Again, my apologies Anointed... the information you have presented is excellent and I am going to do my best to stay on point.....
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Post by anointed on Sept 14, 2007 17:27:15 GMT -5
You cool.  |
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Post by Jasmine on Sept 14, 2007 18:03:27 GMT -5
I am mad that this post is being hijacked ... like really. LOLOLOLOL...my recommendation would be to ..umm. like the glad lock commercial. Get Glad! Welcome to the Board! |
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Post by giantsdodie on Sept 14, 2007 19:03:59 GMT -5
hmmm completely and utterly disagree with their assumptions for what I read on this page. This is simply another version of the post tribulation rapture meeting which is erroneous in its assumptions.
In my study of end time events the only thing I find that lines up with ALL bible doctrine ( not just a part ) is the pre-tribulation rapture.
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Post by anointed on Sept 14, 2007 19:15:39 GMT -5
hmmm completely and utterly disagree with their assumptions for what I read on this page. This is simply another version of the post tribulation rapture meeting which is erroneous in its assumptions. In my study of end time events the only thing I find that lines up with ALL bible doctrine ( not just a part ) is the pre-tribulation rapture. Not all is rapture in view concerning this view of eschatology. I'll come back to rapture in a moment. Again, I'm not saying I agree with all as I've been trained in the pre-tribulation view as well. It's just something to go back and see if these things be true so to speak. I'll add some more excerpts... |
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Post by anointed on Sept 14, 2007 19:45:52 GMT -5
The Victorious View of the Endtimes
Teachers holding to victorious eschatology do not jump back and forth between two different definitions of endtimes. They believe the words of the New Testament writers literally. Peter, Paul, James and John were not wrong. The apostles were living in the last days. We do not live in the endtimes.
Please, allow us to explain.
First, we need to define what the Bible meant by endtimes or last days.
Joel defined the last days as the period in which the Holy Spirit would be poured out on the world. Peter accepted Joel's definition and believed that it was fulfilled on Pentecost Day (Acts 2:16-17).
Peter also identified the last days as the period during which Jesus walked on Earth (Acts 2:16-17).
Peter also identified the last days to be in his life-time, when destruction was about to come upon his generation (James 5:3).
John defined the last hour as the period during which antichrists were active, and John believed those antichrists were active then (I John 2:18).
The writer of Hebrews used the terminology last days to refer to the period in which God spoke to humanity through Jesus Christ while Jesus was alive on Earth 2,000 years ago (Heb. 1:1-2).
According to every one of these definitions of "endtimes," the apostles did live in the endtimes.
If we believe that the Bible writers were inspired by God to write what they wrote, then we cannot say that they missed it. For example, John emphatically said, "it is the last hour" (I John 2:18). Since we believe that God inspired John, we have to conclude that God believed -knew- it was the last hour 2,000 years ago.
Teachers of victorious eschatology agree with what the Bible clearly says. The endtimes took place during the First Century.
How could it be possible that the period called the endtimes was in the First Century?
Put yourselves in the shoes of the Jewish people in the days of Jesus. Those who knew their scriptures -the Old Testament- knew the promises of God. The most hopeful promises centered on a coming Messiah, a New Kingdom, and God making a New Covenant with His people. Devout Jews centered their lives around these problems. So important were these promises that that they were always looking for the days promised to them by the Old-Testament prophets.
When Jesus came, He brought in the new Kingdom. He established the New Covenant. The temple was destroyed. The old religious system ended. The end of the old came in the First Century. That was the endtimes. It ended the old. The endtimes was the period in which God abolished the old by establishing the new. It went from the day Jesus revealed Himself as Messiah to the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. The apostles were not wrong. They did live in the endtimes.
We live in new times! In a new covenant and in a new kingdom!
This understanding can be shocking and unsettling when first heard by Christians trained under popular endtime teaching. They have heard the terms endtimes and last days used so many times in reference to the end of the world that they cannot conceive of so great an error in their thinking. Yet, there is no Scripture which supports the view that the endtimes are in our future. Every place the terminology is used in the Bible, it refers to the time in the First Century when the old was put away and God fulfilled His promises to establish a New Covenant.
TO BE CONTINUED...
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Post by giantsdodie on Sept 14, 2007 20:58:44 GMT -5
i agree with one points.. we have been in the last days for quite some time... However I dont agree with what they have proposed so far..
Being trained pre trib is one thing... and I understand that... Many people are.. and MANY people are not..
Studying the scriptures for yourself is another...
Exactly what is their synopsis..
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Post by anointed on Sept 14, 2007 22:45:26 GMT -5
But sometimes we study scriptures in light of what we've been taught instead of what's really there. I want to point out that my issue is not that they don't believe the bible but how they view the bible. However, some things said actually makes you think.
Giants, do you agree with the Tim LaHaye or John Hagee's (Jerusalem Countdown) synopsis on the end? Wondering, because I have their books as well (and they're closer to what I believe for the most part).
It's alot that's talked about in the victorious view of the future but basically this their main point:
Basically, they don't hold a negative view of the future. The Church's focus shouldn't be the rapture but rather being about the Kingdom of God advancing in all the world and arising as a glorious Church who brings in the harvest of souls. This is where the Church should be functioning. Jesus Christ will ultimately reign victoriously. Again, there is more that I'll post to consider (not necessarily admonishing one to accept without contextual study for his or her self.)
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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 14, 2007 23:30:43 GMT -5
hmmm completely and utterly disagree with their assumptions for what I read on this page. This is simply another version of the post tribulation rapture meeting which is erroneous in its assumptions. In my study of end time events the only thing I find that lines up with ALL bible doctrine ( not just a part ) is the pre-tribulation rapture. I don't think it's a version of the post-tribulation rapture. It appears as though they are approaching the subject of the tribulation from a different vantage point altogether. So we may actually need to back up a bit and discuss the tribulation. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Sept 15, 2007 7:31:59 GMT -5
To tell you the truth I dont know what their synposis is because I have never read any of the Tim LaHaya books and I dont watch John Hagee much nor have I read any of his books.
Neither do I. I believe the latter time are one of the most exciting for the church. While the scripture does say that things will get worse, we will see the Power of God operate in and through people in ways we have never seen before. We are being prepared to be a powerful awesome Bride.
With this I agree 100%. Many of us have become far to rapture focused waiting to be rescued from the cruel wicked world rather than being the vehicle through which JESUS reveals Himself THROUGH and IMPACTS the world. While I know completely there will be a rapture.. I also never focus on it because as long as I am doing the will of God.. I'll be gone when He comes to receive his bride.
KrazeeBoi...
From what i read in the earlier passage it lines up with post tribulation rapture and it makes the mistake of combining the events of the rapture and the second coming ( which many post tribulation theorists do )
End time scipture has always fascinated me since I was a small child. Ive read about it and studied it off an on for about 25+ years or so. Its very interesting and every in depth but I will say this.. One thing that has to be done is to keep ALL the various scrptures in context with one another which can be very challenging. I believe thats why a lot of people believe the rapture is found in Matthew 24, when its not.
Totally keep reading and keep studying.. I believe it will bless you..
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