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Post by zelica on Mar 10, 2008 21:57:18 GMT -5
Yes the church that I attend now we started out in the living room of one of the Saints house, then we ended up having services at the YWCA for a little while then God blessed us with a church building, our services where no different then anywhere else. plus I dont think its the building that makes the church anyway its the people inside of the building. Plus the Bible says when two or three are gathered in my name the Lord said that He will be in the Midst of them( just paraphrasing)......I love my church we are still small but we are very family oriented.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Mar 11, 2008 5:53:35 GMT -5
Yes the church that I attend now we started out in the living room of one of the Saints house, then we ended up having services at the YWCA for a little while then God blessed us with a church building, our services where no different then anywhere else. plus I dont think its the building that makes the church anyway its the people inside of the building. Plus the Bible says when two or three are gathered in my name the Lord said that He will be in the Midst of them( just paraphrasing)......I love my church we are still small but we are very family oriented. as I stated before - what you experienced is different from what I am talking about. Also, I am not talking about the building - House Church is the name of the movement. |
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Post by Beck on Mar 11, 2008 6:13:36 GMT -5
wasnt most of the churches in the N.T in houses? LOL
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Post by zelica on Mar 11, 2008 6:51:13 GMT -5
ooops im sorry aswsou I miss understood what you was talking about....
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Mar 11, 2008 9:10:28 GMT -5
wasnt most of the churches in the N.T in houses? LOL Bro Beck! Whereya been? To answer your question, yes most of them were held in houses. Many use that as proof that we should hold church in houses but that is not what I am using. I am not really speaking of WHERE church is held but moreso HOW it is held. Am I making sense? |
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Post by stillfocused on Mar 11, 2008 10:37:32 GMT -5
Yeah Beck !! Where you been ?!! How have you been ??!!
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Post by giantsdodie on Mar 11, 2008 10:53:35 GMT -5
Now I have to ask myself a question... and i am not saying whether this is a good or bad thing.. Do we need another " movement "  It seems to me that we as the church get caught up in this movement and that movement. Kind of like we are looking for the magical formula... And when the effects of that potion wear off we look for another magical potion to fulfill and suit our needs but we never quite seem to be able to go back to the fountain who Is JESUS to be filled... Yes there were many house churches in the first century.. but there was a reason for that.. and there still may be a need today.. yet every church was not a house church..... I dont belive the church at Jerusalem was and I am pretty confident that the church at Antioch was not and that was the church where people were first called Christians... What I feel is prudent is instead of going to a place we like or a place we feel is comfortable to go to the place GOD has directed us to go... that is where the blessing will occur.. Whether its small.. whether its big.. whether is Mega.. whether its house.. or whatever... as long as it is the place where GOD has told us to be thats where the blessing will be... whether its on target or whether its a complete mess... |
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Mar 11, 2008 11:50:17 GMT -5
Now I have to ask myself a question... and i am not saying whether this is a good or bad thing.. Do we need another " movement " It seems to me that we as the church get caught up in this movement and that movement. Kind of like we are looking for the magical formula... And when the effects of that potion wear off we look for another magical potion to fulfill and suit our needs but we never quite seem to be able to go back to the fountain who Is JESUS to be filled... Yes there were many house churches in the first century.. but there was a reason for that.. and there still may be a need today.. yet every church was not a house church..... I dont belive the church at Jerusalem was and I am pretty confident that the church at Antioch was not and that was the church where people were first called Christians... What I feel is prudent is instead of going to a place we like or a place we feel is comfortable to go to the place GOD has directed us to go... that is where the blessing will occur.. Whether its small.. whether its big.. whether is Mega.. whether its house.. or whatever... as long as it is the place where GOD has told us to be thats where the blessing will be... whether its on target or whether its a complete mess... this totally misses the point but I understand what you are saying and because I cannot seem to communicate exactly what I am saying, then the post is locked. Thanks! Bee, I will speak to you off line about this. |
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Mar 13, 2008 6:34:02 GMT -5
I had a request via PM to re-open this thread. I will honor the request, however I will ask that the thread stays on topic. If you feel that you cannot stay on topic then I ask that you please NOT participate in this thread.
Blessings,
Monica
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Post by Beck on Mar 13, 2008 6:40:11 GMT -5
wasnt most of the churches in the N.T in houses? LOL Bro Beck! Whereya been? To answer your question, yes most of them were held in houses. Many use that as proof that we should hold church in houses but that is not what I am using. I am not really speaking of WHERE church is held but moreso HOW it is held. Am I making sense? I have been busy doing things with the church and just doing a bunch of soul searching...just making sure I am in the will of God. As for the house church thing... I think its more of a personal setting..Everyone plays a part and the burden doesnt just fall on one. I kinda like it when I first saw it.. It kinda reminds me of my bible classes I have at my home.. We all share on a certain scripture eat and sing songs... Bro GGD its not another movement...its been happening in the mid west for YEARS... |
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Mar 13, 2008 6:49:35 GMT -5
Bro Beck! Whereya been? To answer your question, yes most of them were held in houses. Many use that as proof that we should hold church in houses but that is not what I am using. I am not really speaking of WHERE church is held but moreso HOW it is held. Am I making sense? I have been busy doing things with the church and just doing a bunch of soul searching...just making sure I am in the will of God. As for the house church thing... I think its more of a personal setting..Everyone plays a part and the burden doesnt just fall on one. I kinda like it when I first saw it.. It kinda reminds me of my bible classes I have at my home.. We all share on a certain scripture eat and sing songs... Bro GGD its not another movement...its been happening in the mid west for YEARS... Thanks Bro Beck, Do you mind sharing more details of your experience? The greatest aspect of this that is drawing me is discipleship! |
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Post by Beulah5 on Mar 13, 2008 6:53:18 GMT -5
I believe that this is an issue of discipleship. Church is church whether it is a storefront or a mega church that is not the issue. House churches are not a new movement per se but actually is what christian discipleship should look like.
Whether you attend a big or small church we are told to disciple the nations. Not get them saved but actually disciple folks.
The reason why this discussion is crucial is the fact that statistics show that less than half of those that make decisions for Christ go on to mature and grow into Him many fall aside and drift away.
Now there are various reasons for that but for me personally the main one is the issue of discipleship-that we may be like trees planted by the waters unmoveable and bearing fruit in our season.
Secondly there are many believers that Hebrews 6 tells us about who are still in church and yet after many years are still as infantile as the first day they got saved. Tossed about with every wind, still sensitive to everything and lacking in vision and purpose.
We know the church as ecclesia-called out ones. The lord added to that definition for me: called out ones that we may live no longer for ourselves.
That is the church now the second part of that is where we need the help the issue is not the calling in this case. God calls us into Christ yes we have that eternal security but to grow rooted and grounded in Him, etc has been designed by God that we do it in the context of other believers in other words the church, mentorship, new converts class etc
May i be so bold to say that a believer cannot grow and will not grow except he or she has other believers round him or her who can affirm, encourage, rebuke. mentor, speak into, support and teach the word of God to-obviously if u live in a country where christians live underground or u are in jail this does not apply to u.
We are a body and we derive life not just from the head but from the other cells in the body that is how the Lord has designed it.
Jesus Christ is called The Great Shepherd and shepherding is one of the five fold ministries and one of the most important offices. Without a shepherd the wolves get in as in the natural so in the spiritual.
Now there is corporate shepherding but let us be real how many of us will get to know our pastors intimately or our elders particularly if u attend a very big church.
It is interesting that when the crowds had left Jesus took the 12 and spoke to them. seoncly from time to time we see him taking the 3 and doing and sharing things with them that He did not share with the others.
There is something about small settings which enables intimacy be it a house group, mentorship, bible study with other believers, prayer partners etc cause how many of us will receive individual encouragement or admonishment or prophecy sitting in the building of church.
Yes we can get a corporate word or even a personal prophecy but i am talking about that day to day accountability, encouragement, teaching etc particularly for young believers who do not have families etc
What church u belong to is irrelevant we all need this. Looking forward to more dialogue
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Post by zelica on Mar 13, 2008 22:12:40 GMT -5
I found this website and thought it was very interesting. www.hccentral.com here is something that was on the website: HCC is non-denominational and an effort is made to accommodate Christians of many backgrounds. The house church movement is an attempt to get away from the institutional church, seeking instead to return to the small gatherings of peoples that constituted all of the churches of the New Testament era. The emphasis at this site is not to criticize the institutional church, but rather to lift up its alternative. Many house churches start among people who first meet in an institutional setting, and regular attendance at a good institutional church is encouraged as a source of Christian teaching. But can one really worship at an institutional church? The fellowship pictured in Mt. 18:20 (the source of the house church doctrine of church) is "two or three gathered together." Even "church growth" expert Lyle Schaller says that the "glue" that is necessary to unite worshippers cannot be achieved as a church grows beyond a limit of about 40 people. Other experts point out that an assembly larger than a mere dozen people creates an environment in which some of the people often back away from full participation. And there is the concern so well articulated by that the institutional church tends toward viewing its members as an "audience" and the worship experience as a "show." It is better, he said, to view God as the audience and all the people equally accountable for the "performance" of worshipping in Spirit and in Truth. Why the House Church? Here are just a few of the reasons: Historical. The house church is the biblical church. All of the churches in the New Testament era were small assemblies that met in homes. While setting up institutional forms of "church" may or may not provide a way to honor God, the movement toward the institution and the human authority that tends to accompany hierarchical institutional structure are not theologically neutral. Growth. The most explosive growth of Christianity in our own time has taken place in the likes of the People's Republic of China where its only expression has been the illegal, underground house church (more recently the PRC has installed a government-licensed "Three Self" church in an effort to control a movement that decades of political repression has failed to contain). Historian Del Birkey's studies have led him to conclude that the house church is our best hope for the renewal in our times. Resisting the Culture. Our culture desperately wants to change our doctrines so that it might Christianity to conform to its notion of "civil religion" and "political correctness." The house church has always been for this reason, just as Jesus said that his disciples should be in the Sermon on the Mount. That sermon outlines how the powerless disciple can be salt and light in a dark world (Mt. 5:13-14), how to withstand evildoers (Mt. 5:39) by showing God's love to the world through suffering at the hands of persecution from bullies (Mt. 5:39), foreclosing landlords (Mt. 5:40), and occupying Roman authorities (Mt. 5:41). It speaks of giving and lending to the most hopeless credit risks (Mt. 5:42). It speaks of a praying community ("Our Father, who art in heaven ..." Mt. 6:9) that fasts (Mt. 6:16), gives of itself (Mt. 6: 21), and depends completely on God (Mt. 25ff). It speaks of the non-judgment of individuals (Mt. 7:1), just as it speaks of the need to judge those who would be authorities in spiritual matters (Mt. 7:15ff). Mission. There are several opportunities in our communities that are especially suited for the house church. An invitation offered to a work-place acquaintance to a home is much less threatening than one to a church, just as one example. Another is the unique value of the house church as a ministry to "the damaged" and the possibility of learning the joy of giving by elevating that practice to a personal level. Of course there are objections to the independent house church that the reader will need to consider carefully: Authority. House church advocates reject any human authority other than the very real and present rule of Christ, who was inaugurated the king of his church at the first Pentecost (Acts 2). The house church assembles to know the will of its king through the Holy Spirit and to be obedient to that will. Many in the professional clergy, however, understand their role as a "priestly" one in which they are to be intermediaries between the Lord and His flock, being thus trusted through the process with a certain degree of authority. While they seek the benefits of the vibrant Christianity that manifests itself in small groups, and work hard to make small groups a part of the ministry of their churches, many harbor a concern that the groups might become a threat to their own relevance and livelihood. Heresy. Others argue that house churches, due to their lack of seminary trained clergy, might follow the examples of Jonestown and Waco. In this they have a point, as the New Testament is full of epistles that attempt to correct a legion of heresies in various churches--and all of the New Testament churches were, in fact, house churches. It is hoped that these pages can help house churches avoid this pitfall, taking over the seminary's role to the extent possible in a mere web site. It is the hope of House Church Central that this site can help nurture the growth of the movement and also mitigate the concerns of house church nay-sayers. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Mar 13, 2008 23:13:56 GMT -5
I found this website and thought it was very interesting. www.hccentral.com here is something that was on the website: HCC is non-denominational and an effort is made to accommodate Christians of many backgrounds. The house church movement is an attempt to get away from the institutional church, seeking instead to return to the small gatherings of peoples that constituted all of the churches of the New Testament era. The emphasis at this site is not to criticize the institutional church, but rather to lift up its alternative. Many house churches start among people who first meet in an institutional setting, and regular attendance at a good institutional church is encouraged as a source of Christian teaching. But can one really worship at an institutional church? The fellowship pictured in Mt. 18:20 (the source of the house church doctrine of church) is "two or three gathered together." Even "church growth" expert Lyle Schaller says that the "glue" that is necessary to unite worshippers cannot be achieved as a church grows beyond a limit of about 40 people. Other experts point out that an assembly larger than a mere dozen people creates an environment in which some of the people often back away from full participation. And there is the concern so well articulated by that the institutional church tends toward viewing its members as an "audience" and the worship experience as a "show." It is better, he said, to view God as the audience and all the people equally accountable for the "performance" of worshipping in Spirit and in Truth. Why the House Church? Here are just a few of the reasons: Historical. The house church is the biblical church. All of the churches in the New Testament era were small assemblies that met in homes. While setting up institutional forms of "church" may or may not provide a way to honor God, the movement toward the institution and the human authority that tends to accompany hierarchical institutional structure are not theologically neutral. Growth. The most explosive growth of Christianity in our own time has taken place in the likes of the People's Republic of China where its only expression has been the illegal, underground house church (more recently the PRC has installed a government-licensed "Three Self" church in an effort to control a movement that decades of political repression has failed to contain). Historian Del Birkey's studies have led him to conclude that the house church is our best hope for the renewal in our times. Resisting the Culture. Our culture desperately wants to change our doctrines so that it might Christianity to conform to its notion of "civil religion" and "political correctness." The house church has always been for this reason, just as Jesus said that his disciples should be in the Sermon on the Mount. That sermon outlines how the powerless disciple can be salt and light in a dark world (Mt. 5:13-14), how to withstand evildoers (Mt. 5:39) by showing God's love to the world through suffering at the hands of persecution from bullies (Mt. 5:39), foreclosing landlords (Mt. 5:40), and occupying Roman authorities (Mt. 5:41). It speaks of giving and lending to the most hopeless credit risks (Mt. 5:42). It speaks of a praying community ("Our Father, who art in heaven ..." Mt. 6:9) that fasts (Mt. 6:16), gives of itself (Mt. 6: 21), and depends completely on God (Mt. 25ff). It speaks of the non-judgment of individuals (Mt. 7:1), just as it speaks of the need to judge those who would be authorities in spiritual matters (Mt. 7:15ff). Mission. There are several opportunities in our communities that are especially suited for the house church. An invitation offered to a work-place acquaintance to a home is much less threatening than one to a church, just as one example. Another is the unique value of the house church as a ministry to "the damaged" and the possibility of learning the joy of giving by elevating that practice to a personal level. Of course there are objections to the independent house church that the reader will need to consider carefully: Authority. House church advocates reject any human authority other than the very real and present rule of Christ, who was inaugurated the king of his church at the first Pentecost (Acts 2). The house church assembles to know the will of its king through the Holy Spirit and to be obedient to that will. Many in the professional clergy, however, understand their role as a "priestly" one in which they are to be intermediaries between the Lord and His flock, being thus trusted through the process with a certain degree of authority. While they seek the benefits of the vibrant Christianity that manifests itself in small groups, and work hard to make small groups a part of the ministry of their churches, many harbor a concern that the groups might become a threat to their own relevance and livelihood. Heresy. Others argue that house churches, due to their lack of seminary trained clergy, might follow the examples of Jonestown and Waco. In this they have a point, as the New Testament is full of epistles that attempt to correct a legion of heresies in various churches--and all of the New Testament churches were, in fact, house churches. It is hoped that these pages can help house churches avoid this pitfall, taking over the seminary's role to the extent possible in a mere web site. It is the hope of House Church Central that this site can help nurture the growth of the movement and also mitigate the concerns of house church nay-sayers. I do not agree with the assumption that ALL churches in the NT were house churches... I agree that there were some.. probably a great many... but ALL ??!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont know about that... |
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Post by zelica on Mar 13, 2008 23:15:37 GMT -5
I found this website and thought it was very interesting. www.hccentral.com here is something that was on the website: HCC is non-denominational and an effort is made to accommodate Christians of many backgrounds. The house church movement is an attempt to get away from the institutional church, seeking instead to return to the small gatherings of peoples that constituted all of the churches of the New Testament era. The emphasis at this site is not to criticize the institutional church, but rather to lift up its alternative. Many house churches start among people who first meet in an institutional setting, and regular attendance at a good institutional church is encouraged as a source of Christian teaching. But can one really worship at an institutional church? The fellowship pictured in Mt. 18:20 (the source of the house church doctrine of church) is "two or three gathered together." Even "church growth" expert Lyle Schaller says that the "glue" that is necessary to unite worshippers cannot be achieved as a church grows beyond a limit of about 40 people. Other experts point out that an assembly larger than a mere dozen people creates an environment in which some of the people often back away from full participation. And there is the concern so well articulated by that the institutional church tends toward viewing its members as an "audience" and the worship experience as a "show." It is better, he said, to view God as the audience and all the people equally accountable for the "performance" of worshipping in Spirit and in Truth. Why the House Church? Here are just a few of the reasons: Historical. The house church is the biblical church. All of the churches in the New Testament era were small assemblies that met in homes. While setting up institutional forms of "church" may or may not provide a way to honor God, the movement toward the institution and the human authority that tends to accompany hierarchical institutional structure are not theologically neutral. Growth. The most explosive growth of Christianity in our own time has taken place in the likes of the People's Republic of China where its only expression has been the illegal, underground house church (more recently the PRC has installed a government-licensed "Three Self" church in an effort to control a movement that decades of political repression has failed to contain). Historian Del Birkey's studies have led him to conclude that the house church is our best hope for the renewal in our times. Resisting the Culture. Our culture desperately wants to change our doctrines so that it might Christianity to conform to its notion of "civil religion" and "political correctness." The house church has always been for this reason, just as Jesus said that his disciples should be in the Sermon on the Mount. That sermon outlines how the powerless disciple can be salt and light in a dark world (Mt. 5:13-14), how to withstand evildoers (Mt. 5:39) by showing God's love to the world through suffering at the hands of persecution from bullies (Mt. 5:39), foreclosing landlords (Mt. 5:40), and occupying Roman authorities (Mt. 5:41). It speaks of giving and lending to the most hopeless credit risks (Mt. 5:42). It speaks of a praying community ("Our Father, who art in heaven ..." Mt. 6:9) that fasts (Mt. 6:16), gives of itself (Mt. 6: 21), and depends completely on God (Mt. 25ff). It speaks of the non-judgment of individuals (Mt. 7:1), just as it speaks of the need to judge those who would be authorities in spiritual matters (Mt. 7:15ff). Mission. There are several opportunities in our communities that are especially suited for the house church. An invitation offered to a work-place acquaintance to a home is much less threatening than one to a church, just as one example. Another is the unique value of the house church as a ministry to "the damaged" and the possibility of learning the joy of giving by elevating that practice to a personal level. Of course there are objections to the independent house church that the reader will need to consider carefully: Authority. House church advocates reject any human authority other than the very real and present rule of Christ, who was inaugurated the king of his church at the first Pentecost (Acts 2). The house church assembles to know the will of its king through the Holy Spirit and to be obedient to that will. Many in the professional clergy, however, understand their role as a "priestly" one in which they are to be intermediaries between the Lord and His flock, being thus trusted through the process with a certain degree of authority. While they seek the benefits of the vibrant Christianity that manifests itself in small groups, and work hard to make small groups a part of the ministry of their churches, many harbor a concern that the groups might become a threat to their own relevance and livelihood. Heresy. Others argue that house churches, due to their lack of seminary trained clergy, might follow the examples of Jonestown and Waco. In this they have a point, as the New Testament is full of epistles that attempt to correct a legion of heresies in various churches--and all of the New Testament churches were, in fact, house churches. It is hoped that these pages can help house churches avoid this pitfall, taking over the seminary's role to the extent possible in a mere web site. It is the hope of House Church Central that this site can help nurture the growth of the movement and also mitigate the concerns of house church nay-sayers. I do not agree with the assumption that ALL churches in the NT were house churches... I agree that there were some.. probably a great many... but ALL ??!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont know about that... I really dont know much about it Bro Giant, I just found this website about House Church so I thought I would share the info...This is the first I ever heard if this movement to be honest. |
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