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Post by livinganewlife on Jul 24, 2008 12:58:12 GMT -5
Hi guys,
I have been really struggling lately and decided to watch a movie on Saturday with some of my girlfriends….
Well we decided to see COVER on this past Saturday and after watching that movie I was really deeply disturbed….
The movie is about brothers on the down low (let me explain something first…..and that is you can ONLY be on the Down Low if you are a man in a serious relationship (marriage, engaged, steady girlfriend) and sleep secretly with other men… You can not be a single brother all loosey goosey sleeping with both men and women and consider yourself down low (no you are just bi sexual)…..
What really got me in the movie are the lengths these brothers went to in order to cover for each other…. And another thing that got me in the movie (that God gave me revelation on) was that in order to really be on the {down low} you really have to have some money or power to keep that lifestyle a secret….. In this movie these brother’s helped each other to achieve wealth, success and various accomplishments….all in the name of friendship and I mean they really covered each other….
Of course after the movie the “girls” and I got to talking and one lady brought up a very interesting question…..
What if your husband enjoyed the sexual activity he received from his down low sessions? Would you as a wife be willing to please him?
And as saintly women are we suppose to help our husbands overcome this {down low} demon…would you stop loving your husband if he was an alcoholic? If your husband was a (drunkard) would you rather he go out and drink and endanger several lives or stay home and drink?
And the same thing with the down low; if your husband enjoys sexual activity (that only a man can give) would you rather for him to get it at home from you or out in the street...
And another question was if you submit to your husband and your husband has this demonic spirit within him are you as a woman of God submitting to that spirit too?
I am going to move this to another thread……. Please respond to the thread named (Loving a Down Low Man)
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Post by Jasmine on Jul 24, 2008 13:56:55 GMT -5
Wow those are some interesting questions.
However my first observation of the questions are, How is it possible for a woman to give a man this type of sexual activity? We all know that the woman's anatomy is different from the males anatomy, so are you asking if the woman will wear a strap on to please her husband, versus him getting from men in the street?
Secondly, I can only speculate as to what I would do in such a situation, however, if I was a christian wife who's husband was "downlow" I geniunely believe that sex would cease altogether. why, because I would separate. It is remotely disgusting to think of my husband with a man, so any contact whatsoever would cause me to puke. I am being very straight forward and honest. I can not see myself, staying in a house with a man who enjoys the company of other men. I can not see that.
Now, the only way I could even think about staying in a relationship as such is if God came down from heaven, stepped in my room, and said I will deliver him, clean him up, and you will see the turn around swiftly, please don't leave him. Even after all that, I would believe that I'd be on my knees everyday asking the Lord..why should I stay, why would I stay, Why do I need to stay.
I also think we need to clarify somethings, just as with an acholic, drug abuser, sex finatic, and etc. Just because those individuals are dealing with those areas, and you as a wife choose to separate, this does not mean that you do not love the individual. If you've been married to someone for 18 years, and you've found out they like men, that love you have is not going to automatically turn off. However, we assume that because a person chooses to separate themselves from that individual, that love is lost. Thats not the case, all the time.
I'd rather separate, pray for you, and let GOD do the fixing. Otherwise, there will be no peace, and sanity in the house.
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Post by vin on Jul 24, 2008 14:16:54 GMT -5
For HEALTH REASONS a woman should leave. The reason that Black women are among the highest numbers of HIV infections is due to down low brothers. So it would not be a matter of love and patience. Once she finds out that the man is living a dangerous lifestlye, it becomes a matter of life and death. The same is true even if he's laying with other women because you don't know what kinds of infections and diseases they have. Anytime someone steps outside the marriage bed and comes back to it after laying with someone else there ought to be tests done.
Anytime your life, health, or safety is threatened you have a right and really an obligation to get out of the situation. Especially if children are involved. You don't have to divorce the person and I would question depending on the situation why you say you love them, but you should leave for safety sake.
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Post by livinganewlife on Jul 24, 2008 14:36:12 GMT -5
Wow those are some interesting questions. However my first observation of the questions are, How is it possible for a woman to give a man this type of sexual activity? We all know that the woman's anatomy is different from the males anatomy, so are you asking if the woman will wear a strap on to please her husband, versus him getting from men in the street? Jasmine thanks for the honesty in your posts...however I wanted to elaborate on this particular point... That YES we are definitely talking about pleasing your husband with a "strap on"! I was floored too.........as I have never thought of that  However after talking with my girls (who are saved and married)....seriously talking this issue over with my friends we had to ask ourselves what is it that God is calling women of God to do when we (general) are faced with situations like this..... We (general) understand that sin is sin and that we all struggle with being delivered from something....so what is the difference between staying and persevering with your alcoholic husband as opposed to staying and persevering with your "down low" husband? Now for me.....I think personally that if I don't kill my husband first..............that I would honestly have my husband detained and will press charges against him for attempted murder....and I am not playing about that  ... |
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Post by kitty on Jul 24, 2008 14:57:42 GMT -5
Living...
That is an interesting question... But I think I would have to say that my answer would be no... doubley no because my husband would have a desire for something that i simply can not provide. I am not a man... I think it is one thing for a couple to be in a situation where maybe she was refrainig from having sex with her husband and he started to have sex with another woman.... But the desire to have sex with a man is simply that... the desire for a man.
I know and have heard about cases where women think they can please their husband's and they would stop if they would perform certain sexual acts... again that answer is no. Yes I knw that there are plenty of couples out there that participate in that activity.
But being a person in the medical and health professions let me tell you it is not a safe activity and can cause plenty of health problems in the long term that people don't know about because it isn't discussed.
Also... I would say this... In general although many may want to compare this situation to a husband that is on drugs or drinking it clearly not the same.... A man that is on drugs and drinking is not breaking his marriage vows as bad as those activities may be. But a man that is having sex with other has indeed broken the marriage covenant. So I wouldn't compare those activites in the same vein.
Ultimately in cases like this... I would really just take some time out to pray and ask God what His will is... I mean really ask.... I know there are plenty women that would want to bombard heaven with prayer for God to change their husband. And God may honor those prayers... But the majority He may not. So just like anything else I would want to seek God regardless of what my own personal desires are...
Because if God tell me that I'm free then good riddence! God has freed me up to do better and experience love and marriage they way He intended. Some women may try to hold on... But the may not realize that God is doing them a favor by letting out of a marriage scott free where they can go on for the real deal!
Kitty
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Post by Jasmine on Jul 24, 2008 14:59:43 GMT -5
Living... That is an interesting question... But I think I would have to say that my answer would be no... doubley no because my husband would have a desire for something that i simply can not provide. I am not a man... I think it is one thing for a couple to be in a situation where maybe she was refrainig from having sex with her husband and he started to have sex with another woman.... But the desire to have sex with a man is simply that... the desire for a man. I know and have heard about cases where women think they can please their husband's and they would stop if they would perform certain sexual acts... again that answer is no. Yes I knw that there are plenty of couples out there that participate in that activity. But being a person in the medical and health professions let me tell you it is not a safe activity and can cause plenty of health problems in the long term that people don't know about because it isn't discussed. Also... I would say this... In general although many may want to compare this situation to a husband that is on drugs or drinking it clearly not the same.... A man that is on drugs and drinking is not breaking his marriage vows as bad as those activities may be. But a man that is having sex with other has indeed broken the marriage covenant. So I wouldn't compare those activites in the same vein. Ultimately in cases like this... I would really just take some time out to pray and ask God what His will is... I mean really ask.... I know there are plenty women that would want to bombard heaven with prayer for God to change their husband. And God may honor those prayers... But the majority He may not. So just like anything else I would want to seek God regardless of what my own personal desires are... Because if God tell me that I'm free then good riddence! God has freed me up to do better and experience love and marriage they way He intended. Some women may try to hold on... But the may not realize that God is doing them a favor by letting out of a marriage scott free where they can go on for the real deal! Kitty amen! |
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Post by Jasmine on Jul 24, 2008 15:16:20 GMT -5
Wow those are some interesting questions. However my first observation of the questions are, How is it possible for a woman to give a man this type of sexual activity? We all know that the woman's anatomy is different from the males anatomy, so are you asking if the woman will wear a strap on to please her husband, versus him getting from men in the street? Jasmine thanks for the honesty in your posts...however I wanted to elaborate on this particular point... That YES we are definitely talking about pleasing your husband with a "strap on"! I was floored too.........as I have never thought of that However after talking with my girls (who are saved and married)....seriously talking this issue over with my friends we had to ask ourselves what is it that God is calling women of God to do when we (general) are faced with situations like this..... We (general) understand that sin is sin and that we all struggle with being delivered from something....so what is the difference between staying and persevering with your alcoholic husband as opposed to staying and persevering with your "down low" husband? Now for me.....I think personally that if I don't kill my husband first..............that I would honestly have my husband detained and will press charges against him for attempted murder....and I am not playing about that ... How can you stay and persevere with a downlow husband? Seriously. If you stay, then you risk you own life being in danger. You don't know if he's used protection with the men he's been with, and as his wife using protection wouldn't have crossed your mind until now. (std, HIV/AIDS, ecoli) So say a woman stays. She now needs to decide, if she's to engage in intercourse, he must wear a condom. What if he refuses? Being that he, first off, is dealing with a demonic spirit, when she refuses to have sex because he won't wear a condom, what if he slaps her up and take it anyway. (rape) What if she stays, and he so perverted by this demonic spirit, that he starts messing with their sons. (molestation) These are things that women need to think about. Oh he would never do that, he loves little johnny to much, ok, but that demonic spirit thats on him, don't care anything about lil johnny. As a woman, wife, these types of questions and scenarios would run through my head, and I am not sure if I would be willing to continually place myself in that situation/environment. |
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Post by vin on Jul 24, 2008 15:34:36 GMT -5
The first word that comes to mind when I read about a woman using a strap on to "please" her man is perversion. So that alone is a no brainer as far as whether a woman should consider it.
And I would also bet that if a man has a spirit on him that causes him to desire another man, a woman with a strap on ain't gonna cut it. Men feel different from women all the way around. To hold/hug a man feels a world different from a woman. Men smell different from women. The physical strength and muscular build of a man is different from a woman so I doubt very seriously a woman with a strap on could substitute for a man.
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Post by livinganewlife on Jul 24, 2008 15:46:23 GMT -5
Hi guys, And another question was if you submit to your husband and your husband has this demonic spirit within him are you as a woman of God submitting to that spirit too? Also ladies and gents.....I really want to touch on this subject especially since marriages are really consummated through sex..... We as wives are to submit to our husbands. Period Point Blank! So if your husband is dealing with a sexual perversion spirit and you know it are you as a wife submitting to that same spirit also…. And what about the two shall become one….So if your husband is struggling with it aren't you as a woman struggling with it too? On so many levels….for example we women (in general) always cry his money is my money and his house is my house (blah blah blah)….. Yall know the (what's his is mines and what's hers is mines philosophy) But what about his struggles and his demons aren’t those your demons too once you are married? And how does one handle that? |
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Post by vin on Jul 24, 2008 15:54:04 GMT -5
Don't commit sin. Do not sin against the Word of God.
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Post by Jasmine on Jul 24, 2008 16:16:17 GMT -5
Hi guys, And another question was if you submit to your husband and your husband has this demonic spirit within him are you as a woman of God submitting to that spirit too? Also ladies and gents.....I really want to touch on this subject especially since marriages are really consummated through sex..... We as wives are to submit to our husbands. Period Point Blank! So if your husband is dealing with a sexual perversion spirit and you know it are you as a wife submitting to that same spirit also…. And what about the two shall become one….So if your husband is struggling with it aren't you as a woman struggling with it too? On so many levels….for example we women (in general) always cry his money is my money and his house is my house (blah blah blah)….. Yall know the (what's his is mines and what's hers is mines philosophy) But what about his struggles and his demons aren’t those your demons too once you are married? And how does one handle that? Is it really period, point, blank, with regards to submitting? I don't think so. A woman generally has no problem submitting to a man who follows Christ. A woman will also submit to her unsaved mate, as long as, he is not requesting that she does anything that goes against her personal belief, relationship and walk with Christ. I don't agree with the latter part, and I will explain, later. |
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Post by anointedteacher on Jul 24, 2008 16:48:12 GMT -5
I had a friend who husband was on crack.... He would disappear and go prosecute on the street to get money to support his habit.... When she left her church, and return to my, ... my former pastor sent them both to get tested for AIDS... The guy ghad big demons, you know like The Exorcise... . They lost their apartment .. She stay with me for while (NOT HIM) he stay with his sister. Everywhere she go she see demons... She was processed too!!! saved and full with the Spirit. The both of them suppose to be ministers... I didn't let her pray for me, but I was up many night praying for the couple.... You, know you can not tell a person to leave their bi-sexual crack head husband. She finally divorced him a few years after she moved from me. She still find herself into sexual sin with other men, so the demon attacked itself to her.... I am not going to submit to a demon..... divorce is not a four letter word.... and delivered from the soul-tie, demons, and that one flesh will become two again...  |
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Post by Jasmine on Jul 24, 2008 18:00:26 GMT -5
AT,
who's to say that she wasn't already battling that spirit? Who's to say that a person who see's demons is possessed. Come on let us reason and be reasonable. I see a lot of things in that story that I can pick and pull apart, however I truly believe she was already battleing with that demon.
For a hypothetical, if my husband had a drug problem, and I didn't, why would satan tempt me with drugs? Satan is going to use what he believes is going to draw me into sin. Ultimately, its going to be through my own lust, that I am led astray.
My husband's walk is not my walk, and my walk is not his, HOWEVER what we do in our walk, affects each others walk. That is the power of being ONE. As husband and wife, we are one, and we do have to walk together, yet we still have our own individual walk.
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Post by anointedteacher on Jul 24, 2008 18:25:34 GMT -5
AT, who's to say that she wasn't already battling that spirit? Who's to say that a person who see's demons is possessed. Come on let us reason and be reasonable. I see a lot of things in that story that I can pick and pull apart, however I truly believe she was already battleing with that demon. I knew her way before she met her husband... The demon follow her everywhere she go... Plu she told me when she was with her husband at night after he came in off the street, the demon would actually pull him off the bed and attack both of them. You probably right, because she was born in Hatti and was delicated when she was three. Her father is a witch doctor, but she have nothing to do with him. The couple was being tormented by demons. . If you never used drugs or had a desire, he is not going to tempt you... but there is a transference of spirits when you have sex... most soul tie are develope through sex... true... My friend was an example of being marry to a down low man... he picked up men off the street... he would leave and stay away for a month or two... living on the street. |
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Post by leadinglady on Jul 25, 2008 11:29:51 GMT -5
LANL said: "What if your husband enjoyed the sexual activity he received from his down low sessions? Would you as a wife be willing to please him"?
"And the same thing with the down low; if your husband enjoys sexual activity (that only a man can give) would you rather for him to get it at home from you or out in the street..."
No, I wouldn't be willing to please him this way. I read DL king's book on the subject "on the down low" (I think that's the title) and saw him on an episode of Oprah a while back. A group of women and myself, whom I didn't know, were discussing this on the train one day. (Don't you just love this when women open up and talk)? We were so shocked at this man's story, and were well aware of the shocking rate of HIV/AIDS among Black women. At the time, the Center for Disease Control could not pin point the reason why this was occuring at such alarming rates.
DL King really broke this down by EMPHATICALLY mentioning (I'm para-phrasing here) "a women can't compete with a down low man this way, because there is NOTHING she could do sexually that would even remotely satisfy a man when he wants to indulge in this manner with another man" (hope I'm not being too explicit here). Some women think that "if I perform better", or "give him what he wants", then I can help him overcome. What I got from this is that you are dealing with a SPIRIT. He even went as far to say that a DL brother even goes through physical changes and takes on a completely different persona while performing with another DL brother, operating outside his normal character. He said that when performing the act with another man, he was aware that his performace was tied to demonic spirits which heightens the act (again, sorry for being so explicit).
To me, his use of the term "brother" carried some significance, because it implied comradery among men who operate this way. What was so astonishing about the DL lifestyle is that men who engaged in this behavior don't consider themselves bi-sexual or homosexuals, because to define themselves in this matter implied they were gay, and DL men take great pride in their masculinity, and eskew effeminate and homosexual men, avoiding these types, because it would blow their DL cover. Some are single and date various women, while many are married, or in exclusive relationship with a woman. Despite loving the DL lifestyle, these men were very much sexually attracted to women. What is surprising to me, was that some of these men are often fraternity brothers, (not all fraternity brothers are DL), and look out for each other's success, and like you said LANL, they cover for each other.
LANL said, "We (general) understand that sin is sin and that we all struggle with being delivered from something....so what is the difference between staying and persevering with your alcoholic husband as opposed to staying and persevering with your "down low" husband?"
My questions would be, did the husband struggle with this lifestyle before marriage, and was it confessed to the wife prior to marriage? Did he forsake this lifestyle at some point? At what point did he fall back into the DL lifestyle?. The answer to these questions could seriously determine what I would consider.
Because the DL lifestyle is cloistered in secrecy, it would be commendable if the husband had communicated to his wife when he felt those urges coming back (of course, assuming that he even told her of his prior history in the first place). I would feel quite betrayed if I found out my husband kept this part of his past from me, and this fact alone would be my grounds for divorce, and I don't know if I would want to trust him again.
However, if I had prior knowledge of his struggle, yet he failed to communicate that his addiction had once again overtaken him, I would still be devastated, however, I'm not sure that I would divorce him, but a legal separation may be in order, because the trust issues need to be resolved. I would refrain from sexual relations with him until I was certain that this addiction was broken, and the issue of trust was restored. I would walk him through this, praying and fasting, waiting and watching for his deliverance, all the while, listening for God's instruction. I would not willingly put my life in danger and stay if he continued this lifestyle, or refused to allow God to deliver him.
Over the years, I have experienced four friends, (one whom I met many years ago on my first day of college) die from AIDS, all infected by their husbands, who were either cheating with other women, or on the DL. What was heartbreaking about this, was that in two cases, each friend was conflicted about continuing sexual relations with their husbands, even after being confronted with the cheating, or DL behavior, and their decision cost them their lives.
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