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Post by Nikkol on Jul 25, 2008 12:58:18 GMT -5
Question: Have any of you talked with people that have found themselves in a relationship with someone that is "DL"?
Maybe if we could get some insight. based on that it would really help a lot of people.... I have a freind that is in this situation...I'll get her input.
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Post by nina2 on Jul 25, 2008 13:23:15 GMT -5
1 What if your husband enjoyed the sexual activity he received from his down low sessions? Would you as a wife be willing to please him?
2 And as saintly women are we suppose to help our husbands overcome this {down low} demon…would you stop loving your husband if he was an alcoholic? If your husband was a (drunkard) would you rather he go out and drink and endanger several lives or stay home and drink?
3 And the same thing with the down low; if your husband enjoys sexual activity (that only a man can give) would you rather for him to get it at home from you or out in the street...
4 And another question was if you submit to your husband and your husband has this demonic spirit within him are you as a woman of God submitting to that spirit too?
1- NO. If he enjoys it that much, he is free to keep doing that, I am free to not follow him in what I know to be a perversion
2- NO. I would not “help” to overcome if it means keep living under the same roof, share the same bed. If it happened and I found out, I would walk away and not look back. Simply because that man would have deliberately, first and foremost, regardless of with whom and how, broken the marriage covenant, and then, knowingly, put my life in danger for a moment of self gratification. By the way, I would call that a demon, it is just and only utter selfishness.
I would separate myself from this situation, from him, I would pray for him. It was his choice...
3- I may not stop loving him, we can’t turn our deepest feelings on and off at will, but I would definitely not allow it at “home”, let alone participate in it.
God made me Woman, I’ve been a woman all my life, and I happen to like it like that. If he does not, if it is not “good enough” for him, again, regardless of whom and how he prefers it with, he can go.
4- NO. Submission has nothing to do with it. Why would you, as a woman of God, deliberately choose to participate in something that you know is a sin and not anywhere in God’s will for a marriage relationship?
And by the way, for that too the “if you really loved me, you would...” ? Wrong! Because, for sure, “If I really love God - and I do -, I won’t!”
My bottom line, since we are really getting personal here, is that also, we need to stop giving credit to the devil for a lot of things re finding excuses where there is none.
Because we like to put labels on everything, like LD, now it becomes something that people can “fiddle” with, analyse, rationalise, put big words on when talking about it, and soon it will be, like most other sins, a medical condition, an addiction, or whatever else the Dr Phil’s of this world can think about.
There is no need for that. It’s cheating, it’s adultery, even more twisted, but that’s what it is. And it has the potential to destroy a life, both physically and spiritually. It’s sin....
1 Corinthians 6
Flee Sexual Immorality
6:12 “All things are lawful for me” – but not everything is beneficial. “All things are lawful for me” – but I will not be controlled by anything.
6:13 “Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, but God will do away with both.” The body is not for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
6:14 Now God indeed raised the Lord and he will raise us by his power.
6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Should I take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never!
6:16 Or do you not know that anyone who is united with a prostitute is one body with her? 13 For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”
6:17 But the one united with the Lord is one spirit with him.
6:18 Flee sexual immorality! “Every sin a person commits is outside of the body”– but the immoral person sins against his own body.
6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
6:20 For you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.
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For those who are interested, here are also some powerful study including awesome knowledge re sex, sexuality and God's way for and about it:
"The Sexual Component in Love and Marriage"
"The Power of Sex"
"Sex is the most powerful, all-pervasive force in human experience. It may be intensely personal, meaningful, and creative at one moment, and depersonalized, meaningless, and careless the next.
Much of its glory is that it can bring us as close as we may get in life to experiencing the mystery of our mortality, and because of this it is sanctified.
Yet it can also be a blind, nearly irresistible force seeking wanton release on the biological level, and in this way its sanctity is perverted.
Human Sexuality Has Meaning Only in the Context of Relationship.
Perhaps our greatest fear is that our lives will be meaningless. If sex, the most powerful and sensitive area of our lives is to have meaning, it must be used as an expression of love or affection for another person.
If we depersonalize the act by relating to another person only on a biological level, we dehumanize our partner and rob ourselves of our own integrity.
To be successful, the act of sex requires the sensitive involvement of both partners. Noninvolvement results in a mechanical orgasm that is ultimately meaningless and demeaning.
If simply sleeping together would produce happiness, then the prostitute would be the happiest person in society.
According to Helmut Thielicke, what is an ethical deficiency for the person who seeks the prostitute—the need for the physiological function rather than the person—is for the prostitute a positive element of moral self-defense. She saves her sense of self-worth by with-holding her "self" during sex.
It is this distinction that determines whether the act is merely another sensation, or a true step toward relationship.
It is becoming characteristic of our society that old as well as young people seek experiences rather than relationships, episodes rather than the continuous growth toward greater love.
The sexual union of two people on a primitive, impersonal, casual, biological level is a gross misfortune. If it is by mutual consent, it is simply mutual exploitation. It has met the test of liberty in that it is not coerced, but it has failed the test of meaning, sensitivity, decency, and responsibility to the future.
Value in human sexuality comes only when the relationship involves two people who have committed themselves to one another and have made that commitment in a binding covenant recognized by God and by society. The act of sexual union, the deepest personal statement that any human being can make, must be reserved for the moment of total oneness.
The test of a good marriage is not compatibility in bed, but compatibility in life. Given love and respect, sexual technique can be learned. Engaging in sex to "test it out" de-sanctifies the act. It is not a rehearsal for marriage, it is a rehearsal for divorce.
Sexuality Needs to Be Sanctified.
If sexuality is that deepest personal statement, filled with ecstasy and informed by knowledge, it follows that even within marriage sex is not considered simply a legitimated biological function.
On a basic level, sanctity means separating oneself consciously from immorality and illicit thoughts.
Leviticus "Be you holy" (19:2): "Sanctify yourself even with that permitted you" is a call to those who strive to a higher level of spirituality and sensitivity to separate themselves from gross acts and uncouth behavior, even that which is technically permitted.
The contemporary writer I. Lewald says:
"In the consciousness of belonging together, in the sense of constancy, resides the sanctity, the beauty of matrimony, which helps us to endure pain more easily, to enjoy happiness doubly, and to give rise to the fullest and finest development of our nature."
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Post by livinganewlife on Jul 25, 2008 14:27:54 GMT -5
Thanks Nina...... love your input!
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Post by livinganewlife on Jul 25, 2008 14:35:42 GMT -5
Question: Have any of you talked with people that have found themselves in a relationship with someone that is "DL"? Maybe if we could get some insight. based on that it would really help a lot of people.... I have a freind that is in this situation...I'll get her input. Nikkol, I have and the reason why this movie and topic was chosen was because of the situation one of my friends is in..... I know that ultimately for me; I would chose not to be with a man on the DL as I personally think the act is deplorable... However after speaking with my friend and really understanding where here husband is coming from it is really a sad situation that is more involved than just the physical act of sex between two men. What I found interesting was the molestation that occurred with the man and to find out that most men who deal with this issue was molested as little boys and most men and parents don’t talk about that...or the boys are told that it is OK, especially if the perpetrator was a woman…. And what we found out that was interesting is that most DL men were molested by older women…. Therefore the sexual perversion started in childhood and escalated into this phenomenon now known as the DL. See it is OK, in society for a young teenage child to have sex with an older woman... As many times it is seems as some sort of conquest for the young man; however no one talks about the emotional confusion and sexual perversion that these men have; they are usually left to deal with these demons alone and as a result we women (general) suffer. I'll be back with more! |
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Post by kitty on Jul 25, 2008 16:07:25 GMT -5
Hey Guys,
There is something that I want to share here...... One... that it is truly my belief that homosexuality is tied to a demonic spirit... Secondly... That I didn't always think that was the case.
Here is the reasons why I know Believe and KNOW in my heart personally that it is...
A while back there was a very popular cable tv series about gay men and their lives. It was like a soap opera. I wish I could recall the name of the show... But it was a very entertaining show! My ex and I used to watch it every week.
Then one time we hadn't watched it for a while and he had recorded several episodes of the show. Each one was like an hour long at least... So we got some chinese food and processed to watch these shows back to back for about 3 hours...
Thean around the 3rd hour... My spirit was just disturbed... I couldn't say exactly why, it wasn't that the show hadn't been entertaining, or it had gotten especially graphic or anything like that.... But my spirit was definitely disturbed. Then what was amazing to me was that my ex who isn;t saved was the one to speak up... He said... "You know what? I don't think we should watch this show anymore." He continued on to say this... " I don't know why... but it just doesn't feel right."
I agreed! He amy not have known but I suspected that it was God speaking to the both of us... Saved and unsaved alike... We, well at least I... never watched that show again.
BUT>>>>BUT>>>BUT>>>
Then a few years later... Show Time cam out with their verison of the show for women called the " L-Word". I was even more surprised to hear that Jennifer Beals and another top Black female actor played leads in the show!
But since I didn't have cable... I didn't waych it until... A relative that I "suspect" is gay brought the dvd's of the show to my home one day. Since this relative had never admitted to being gay..... and seemed to be trying to hide that they had the dvd's I simply brought it up calmly saying that I had heard that the show was pretty good and wanted to see it.
Originally my goal was to see if I could make this relative feel comfortable "coming out of the closet" so that we could have a discussion about it. But what happened was really quite different.
Again... I got swept up in watching this very well written soap opera of a show about gay women in California that contained to Black actors that I really liked. In fact at some point even Ossie Davis has a small role on the show!
But this was going against God... And one day He made it perfectly clear to me!!!
I was in Blockbuster and a new season had come out on dvd. I was curious about what happened with the story line and the characters so I rented one dvd of L-Word.
On each dvd there are 4 episodes... Well I want to tell you guys... thre was something really odd and strange about this season that I was watching..... I think it was something that God was pointing out to me... In the begining of each show it did a small historical "skit" of supposedly how "lesbianism" was spread... It was based on a board of literally like one person spread it to another..... I was like Wow?! Are the writters of this show aware that they are suggesting that lesbianism is like a virus? I mean it was set up like how you would think that HIV was spread!
After watching 2 show off the dvd I got that feeling again. That my spirit was disturbed. So I turned the dvd off...
NOW GET THIS!!!!!!!
A close friend of mine... some of guys may know her she was on the JBM board. Julia gives me a call right after i turn off the dvd. I had watched 2 shows... WELL in the middle of our conversation she has a word for me from God. She says, "GOD SAID THAT YOU WATCHED 2 EPISODES OF SOMETHING THAT YOU HAD NO BUSINESS WATCHING!!!"
Guys I was floored!
But after that... I have NEVER questioned that homosexuality is not just something that is displeasing to God... But something demonic... But it was truly dsipleasing to my spirit in the same way thst watching something gothic would be...
Kitty
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Post by vin on Jul 25, 2008 16:49:32 GMT -5
That other show is Noah's Arc. And the main character is that delicate little pretty fellow who's very valley girlish. What's that handsome, handsome black actor's name who used to wear long locks? He says he's straight but he has/had a role in it too. He said he was glad to be working. There is at least one other actor in the show who says he's straight. But these men locked more lips and tongue and had bedroom scenes. I was shocked that Black actors NOT gay were playing such roles. They justify it and say it's just acting. I respond by saying , so you just 'acting like' your tongue is in that man's mouth? okay.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Jul 25, 2008 17:37:47 GMT -5
NO - ABSOLUTELY NOT!
That is to the question "should a woman use a strap on to prevent her husband from going elsewhere for his desires for men".
The homosexual act is an abomination to God - why in the world would someone want to partake of something that is an abomination to our God?
Remember, to the husband - it really wouldn't be his wife that he is with but the man that he is imagining his wife to be while she is pounding away with a strap on!
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Jul 25, 2008 17:47:47 GMT -5
I thought the show that Kitty was referring to was "Queer as Folk". I could be wrong but that is the one that was like a soap opera.
I don't believe that homosexuality is a demon, per se. I believe that it starts as a work of the flesh and is a manifestation of a deeper issue that can in fact be demonic. However, if not set free from the act, yes it can in fact become demonic.
Because of my past, I will not watch anything that has a hint of the homosexual lifestyle as something that is accepted - especially shows like "Queer as Folk" and "The L-Word."
That lifestyle is very seductive, and truly plays on the flesh and emotions. That is why those shows draw people. Yes, the story lines are great - that is how they catch you - and then you find yourself partaking (by viewing) something that God states is an abomination.
Now before someone jumps all over me and tell me how deep I am or that I am a hypocrite - I try not to watch anything that have a strong sexual content to it. Not just because of my past with both men and women, but also because of my past with porn and because I am in a ministry that promotes purity on all levels but mainly dealing with sexual issues. I cannot preach that it is wrong to view yet sit at home and watch them myself.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Jul 25, 2008 17:54:16 GMT -5
I was shocked that Black actors NOT gay were playing such roles. They justify it and say it's just acting. I respond by saying , so you just 'acting like' your tongue is in that man's mouth? okay. Vin, that was just too funny to me! LOL  |
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Post by kitty on Jul 25, 2008 19:38:18 GMT -5
Hey Guys,
I have seen Noah's arc... that was way out there too... made me clear that just because a man look thuggish he can still very well be playing for the 'other team'. But the story line that I have been following was Queer as Folk...
And Such... I don't think that there is anything wrong with not looking at things that of a strong sexual content. I started to feel God leading me that way too... along with not looking that those types of shows... I feel that God is limiting me from reading certain books and I also stay away from romance novels. Not because those things happen to be a sin for people to watch but because I call feel God calling me to a higher level of purity as well.
Kitty
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Jul 25, 2008 19:54:56 GMT -5
Hey Guys, I have seen Noah's arc... that was way out there too... made me clear that just because a man look thuggish he can still very well be playing for the 'other team'. But the story line that I have been following was Queer as Folk... And Such... I don't think that there is anything wrong with not looking at things that of a strong sexual content. I started to feel God leading me that way too... along with not looking that those types of shows... I feel that God is limiting me from reading certain books and I also stay away from romance novels. Not because those things happen to be a sin for people to watch but because I call feel God calling me to a higher level of purity as well. Kitty I am reading a book called "Technical Virgin" by Hayley DiMarco. It is a book about the question that most youth ask: "how far is too far?" In other words, how far can I go and still be a virgin. I plan on teaching it to the youth one day. Anyways, in the book she talks about those romance novels and how they are not good for the mind because of where it can take you (the imagination). Don't mean to hijack the thread - just thought of it when kitty mentioned the romance novels. Okay, back to your regularly scheduled program. |
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Post by nina2 on Jul 25, 2008 19:58:04 GMT -5
I also wanted to add something, and I hope that you won't mind me bringing this up:
When it comes to a wife submitting to a husband, it is a matter often brought into the picture that would make a wife "feel bad" or almost responsible for things going sour in a marriage relationship.
So, and especially in a situation like this one, I think that it is vital to remember that - and we are talking about this situation in a christian marriage - the husband is the high priest.
A lot of things, still today, are used literally against women to - for lack a better expression - force them into submission to something that God does not intend in the first place.
So, it is accurate to say that the man is the high priest, but it still comes with a lot for the man to be and do, or not be and not do.
Here are some of them (under the Law... of God)
The High Priest (Kohen Gadol)
- The Kohen Gadol is special; he is holier than the other Kohanim.
- The Kohen Gadol has more commandments than the other Kohanim.
- The Kohen Gadol is more restricted than the other Kohanim.
- The Kohen Gadol is an even more chosen, exclusive, and therefore restricted symbol.
- The Kohen Gadol symbolizes the most chosen and holy.
- The Kohen Gadol is also the quintessential Kohen and must represent the essence of their closeness.
- A High Priest must always keep himself in a state of purity.
- All Kohanim are restricted from associating with death.
- The Kohanim represent life with all its opportunities for willfully serving God.
- There is an ongoing atonement process on behalf of the people that can only come about because of the spiritual dimension of the Kohen Gadol.
If the Kohen Gadol should be disqualified from his service- through the contamination of the dead or for any reason, the ongoing process of atonement and link to God through him is disrupted.
So, if anybody tries to say that a woman should still submit to a husband under these circumstances, it is not true. The man, by allowing himself to sin in that way has forfeited his position, and everything that it defines in the marriage, period.
Just in case the objection comes, I am very aware of the fact that we are NOT under the law. However, our priesthood still stands under the new covenant.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Jul 25, 2008 20:00:10 GMT -5
nina,
that was good!
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Post by vin on Jul 26, 2008 18:55:46 GMT -5
I watched Cover last night. Nice little twist at the end. I wasn't expecting the Christian theme but it worked well. I'm glad it ended the way it did. Nina mentioned in her last post about women being made to feel guilty or at fault when the marriage goes sour or bad and that is so true. I sat under that kind of teaching most of my life. So I can definitely relate to that.
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Post by Nikkol on Oct 1, 2008 7:28:11 GMT -5
This was the latest "Steve Harvey" question:
Date: 10/01/2008
Subject: Mr. Down Low
Good morning to Steve and Shirley, I have a girlfriend and everything is cool with us, but I am not completely happy. There is this gentleman that I have an attraction for. I prayed that our paths would never cross. Well one day our paths cross and somehow we had an in depth conversation and come to find out that we both had the same feelings. Now here is the problem, we both have significant others and we make arrangements to do what we do and you know that song by escape, "You're My Little Secret" that is exactly what we are. I don't want to be just his little secret anymore. I want to be his other half. Every time I leave his residence I feel like Shirley Murdock's and Kelly Price song, "As we Lay." When it all comes down to it, I don't want to be with a woman and I don't want to suffer and deprive myself any longer. I want a man!!!! Yes a Man!!! I have played the Down Low brother too long. I want to live my life as a gay man, but not a flaming gay man. A woman is great and I have an attraction for the ladies, but a man is more of my style. There are some things a man can do that my female counter parts just can?t do for me. I know with my reputation in society and all the things I am involved in which I won't name; will look at me differently, but at this point I don't care anymore. I know I can't have my cake and eat it too, but I don't know what to do. Please help me out Steve and Shirley. Signed Mr. Down Low
Thoughts? This is getting more discussed than before (I thnk that it's just as bad but that it was more hidden)
Which brings up another question..... if you had a homosexual relationship in your past (you are no longer still practicing), or if you even had thoughts/desires to want to in the past, is this information that should be shared with your "intended"?
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