Are we ready for this???

[Nikkol]

This was a post by someone on another thread in reference to Obama's new Attorney General:

Furthermore, I love how articles about blacks being appointed or doing something always point out, "Oh yeah, and he's black." I would hope that blacks, whites, etc. can get over all this racist crap and themselves. Then we can get rid of affirmative action, Black History Month (unless we want to have a White History Month celebrating all the wonderful things that white people have done for the world), etc. and get on with making the country and the world a better place.

AND:

If we learned anything during the primaries, it is OK for black's to play the race card, even when there is none to play. I don't object to Holder's skin color. I object to the way voters were played by the black community. I was particularly ashamed of a group of people who failed to go to the polls in elections past, to vote for people who were on the front lines of the civil rights fight in this country because they were white. Race has become a smoke screen used by people who can't compete otherwise. I'd vote for the repeal of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and 2005 and every affirmative action law in the country. Whether intended or not, we as a nation, have created a second class society that believe government owes them something. Make them whole, make them compete like the rest of us and watch their plight fade away. It is not the fault of white folks that black families have taught their children to hate. It is not the fault of white folks that black folks can't keep their children in school. It is not the fault of white folks that black families have lost the respect of their children. It is the fault of the black community for teaching their children to hate, period. I left the Democratic Party because of Obama's slick talk and willingly holding himself to a lower standard than others.

This does begin to bring up interesting questions regarding:

1) voting for someone solely based on color
2) Affirmative Action
3) Black History Month
4) Racist blacks vs racist whites....

What are your thoughts?

[kitty]

Why would we get rid of Black History month?

It's no secret that most history books used in school are really just european history and doesn not contain the history of all people so why is that even an question?

Secondly... I wish that people would get what affirmative action is really about. It is for giving people that are QUALIFIED a shot at a job as well... This has included Asians and Latinos as well. Not to mention that the number one people that have benefited from it were WHITE WOMEN not Black men...

Repeal Civil Rights?

Whatever?


Kitty

[anointedteacher]

Whoever wrote those thread are racist... period!!!

1. Black have been voting Dem. for decades, so why it is an issue now? Many Rep. voted Dem. this year because of economy and VP pick... and most of them are white. I am pretty sure, if Obama acted like a jerk many black would not have voted for him... it was more than just his race.... It was more of his character and his policies and his desire to unify and not divide.

2. Affirmative Action need to stay in place... Racism in this country is alive and well

3. Black History month... it should be all year long... It is the major part of American History that have been deleted.... There are no true American History without Black History... Because we are the one who actually built this country and may it great.

4. True racist are white racist.

[kanyon]

Nov 18, 2008 15:47:03 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

This was a post by someone on another thread in reference to Obama's new Attorney General:

Furthermore, I love how articles about blacks being appointed or doing something always point out, "Oh yeah, and he's black." I would hope that blacks, whites, etc. can get over all this racist crap and themselves. Then we can get rid of affirmative action, Black History Month (unless we want to have a White History Month celebrating all the wonderful things that white people have done for the world), etc. and get on with making the country and the world a better place.

AND:

If we learned anything during the primaries, it is OK for black's to play the race card, even when there is none to play. I don't object to Holder's skin color. I object to the way voters were played by the black community. I was particularly ashamed of a group of people who failed to go to the polls in elections past, to vote for people who were on the front lines of the civil rights fight in this country because they were white. Race has become a smoke screen used by people who can't compete otherwise. I'd vote for the repeal of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and 2005 and every affirmative action law in the country. Whether intended or not, we as a nation, have created a second class society that believe government owes them something. Make them whole, make them compete like the rest of us and watch their plight fade away. It is not the fault of white folks that black families have taught their children to hate. It is not the fault of white folks that black folks can't keep their children in school. It is not the fault of white folks that black families have lost the respect of their children. It is the fault of the black community for teaching their children to hate, period. I left the Democratic Party because of Obama's slick talk and willingly holding himself to a lower standard than others.

This does begin to bring up interesting questions regarding:

1) voting for someone solely based on color
2) Affirmative Action
3) Black History Month
4) Racist blacks vs racist whites....

What are your thoughts?

Nikkol,does this come the forum I was banned from? FFF?

I am banned for life from the political forum and am standing on a bannana peel for the rest of the forum. LOL

[stillfocused]

I still says it's the sins of the Fathers(founding) repeating itself. I find it quite interesting that noone has a problem with Europeans entering a land that was already inhibited by the Indians; and lack of knowing the true history of our country...are Blacks entitled..No. Yet, does the African American deserve the breaks as others..yes, because they are the one race that has a lineage of African, European, and Indian..all rolled up in one

[And Such Were Some Of You]

Wow!

I will have to respond to this at a later time.

[krazeeboi]

1) First of all, anyone can vote for anyone for whatever reason. That will continue to happen. Let's not act like identity politics isn't a real phenomenon. However, as it was stated before, Obama is a Democrat. Black folks have voted solidly for Democrats since the mid-60's/early-70's. If Obama was a Republican and McCain was a Democrat, THEN we'd have something to talk about.

2) I'm not entirely sure how I feel about affirmative action. Part of me says that due to our emphasis on diversity as a virtue in this day and age, it's not quite as needed as it may have been. This isn't to say, however, that barriers don't exist anymore. I think I lean more towards a socioeconomic form of affirmative action, rather than one based on just race and gender.

3) I see Black History Month relevant from a public education standpoint more than anything. In that regard, I still see its relevance. This opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, though.

4) Depends on what one means by "racist." If you mean "prejudiced," then yes, there are prejudiced Black folks, no doubt. However, if you take more of a systematic, institutional view, then Blacks cannot be racist because we're not part of the dominant power structure in America.

I don't know who the person is who initially said those things in Nikkol's post, but they sound quite angry.

In part, I actually believe that much of the dysfunction we see, sadly, among Black families is America reaping what it has sown. You think you can oppress and discriminate an entire race of people and not have that sin visited upon your head? These Republicans/ultra-conservatives are apparently ignorant of scriptural principles.

[Nikkol]

Here was one comment on the "other side of the argument"

I love listening to all of the scared ignorant white people who live in fear. Be AFRAID!!! Be VERY AFRAID!!! HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

This is why I start wondering about a lot of things that we are seeing occurring nowadays. For sake of discussion, I'm going to point out some things based on what you've stated already. This is to give another perspective of the same situation.

1. Would Black History Month no longer be important if the history books in school contained history of blacks as well as every other race?

2. Does Affirmative Action always give qualified ppl a shot? Or is it a way of dealing with certain quotas by which someone (of the "majority"....although I would almost go as far to say that the Latino population is the majority...or at least close to it....but that's a different topic) who may not be as qualified gets a job over someone who may be a white male who is more qualified?

3. Is it that ONLY black ppl made this country great? Or was it based on ppl of different nationalities?

4. Is it possible that in being "pro-black" that we've become anti - everything else? How many times have we or other black ppl you know walked down the street and had some type of "snide remark" against someone of a different race (mainly white) which all goes back to what they did to our ancestors? When honestly, most of the ppl that we come in contact with had nothing to do with segregation as much as most of us were enslaved. Yet, if a white person uses the n word, we go up in flames and yet when a black person says the SAME word, it's seen as just "slang". Is it possible that in being so "pro-black" (or I would say somewhat racist) that we (general) have enslaved ourselves?

5. Kanyon: It wasn't from there but I may check out the political corner to see if they're talking about anything....

I just think that this race has really let ppl see how other ppl truly feel. You have the one side of ppl who are happy just because the person is black and as Shirley Caesar said in the pulpit.

"Too long we've been at the bottom of the totem pole, but he has vindicated us, hallelujah," she cried. "I don't know about you, but I don't have nothing to put my head down for, praise God. Because when I look toward Washington, D.C., we got a new family coming in. We got a new family coming in. And you know what? They look like us. Amen, amen. They look like us."

Now granted this is a time when we're seeing a "change"....but should our happiness be because they're black? I was just thinking on yesterday....what if the new president of the NAACP was white, how would we (general) feel if someone came up and said "we have now made it into an area that we thought we never could. We have one of "us" there." This is not to say that we should be proud of what has been accomplished, but should the focus (which most have been harping on) be based on his skin color. Are we going backwards? For those who held onto MLK's dream, would he be happy with the attitudes of the ppl?

There was an article about how some blacks feel they can be something now because of what Obama accomplished. While others are saying that his story is "too different" and therefore doesn't really understand the plight of the black man. Either way, it shows that we have definitely gone backwards. When you live in a predominantly black area and the only corner stores are owned by Asians or Latinos, when there use to be black owned stores. When ppl don't like shopping "black" because it's too expensive. When talking properly is looked upon as a bad thing. Not wearing name brand clothes is seen as bad. Having a 2 family household is seen as weird. When making fast money is seen as better and more productive than an education. When ebonics, and sagging pants, shorter skirts, cleavage and midriffs is seen as what we should be wearing....when we get to the place that rappers think that it's good to call our women all types of names and yet ppl buy their music....we've done a bad disservice. Even in talking to young ladies/men it's a LOT to try to retrain their way of thinking

BTW, KRAZEE, very good points....

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

nikkol, i understand what you are saying and as i read your last post, i found myself vigorously nodding my head in agreement. just wanted you to know that. will come back and share more later. gap/pat

[krazeeboi]

Nov 19, 2008 14:51:24 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

1. Would Black History Month no longer be important if the history books in school contained history of blacks as well as every other race?

Well, the textbooks do contain Black history; the problem is that many relegate the role that Blacks have played in our nation's history to a chapter or two (or at least that's how it was when I was growing up). Once our narrative is successfully and seamlessly weaved into the overall narrative (which is how it is in reality), then Black History Month will become more of a relic.

2. Does Affirmative Action always give qualified ppl a shot? Or is it a way of dealing with certain quotas by which someone (of the "majority"....although I would almost go as far to say that the Latino population is the majority...or at least close to it....but that's a different topic) who may not be as qualified gets a job over someone who may be a white male who is more qualified?

I spelled out my feelings about affirmative action in my last post, but I think that author Dr. Beverly Daniel Tatum does a good job in addressing this concern in her national bestseller "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria"? And Other Conversations About Race:

In a well-conceived and implemented affirmative action program, the first thing that should be done is to establish clear and meaningful selection criteria. What skills does the person need to function effectively in this environment? How will we assess whether the candidates have these required skills? Will it be on the basis of demonstrated past performance, scores on an appropriate test, the completion of certain educational requirements? Once the criteria has been established, anyone who meets the criteria is considered qualified.

Now we can consider who among these qualified candidates will best help us achieve our organizational goals for diversifying our institution. If one candidate meets the criteria but also has some additional education or experience, it may be tempting to say this candidate is the "best," but this one may not be the one who moves us toward our diversity goal. Because of the systematic advantages that members of the dominant group receive, it is often the case that the person with the extra experience or educational attainment is a person from the majority group. If our eyes are on our organizational goal, we are not distracted by these unasked-for extras. If we need someone who has toured Europe or had a special internship, it should already be part of our criteria. If it is not part of the criteria, it shouldn't be considered.

3. Is it that ONLY black ppl made this country great? Or was it based on ppl of different nationalities?

Depends on what is meant by "great." However, no one can deny that African Americans, in several respects, literally built this country. That's nothing to hang over anyone's head, but it's just a fact.

4. Is it possible that in being "pro-black" that we've become anti - everything else? How many times have we or other black ppl you know walked down the street and had some type of "snide remark" against someone of a different race (mainly white) which all goes back to what they did to our ancestors?

This is certainly possible and is something to guard against. Even in the Civil Rights Movement, there have been Whites on the side of justice.

Now granted this is a time when we're seeing a "change"....but should our happiness be because they're black?

To a large extent, I would say yes. November 4, 2008 was a dramatic watershed moment in our nation's history.

I was just thinking on yesterday....what if the new president of the NAACP was white, how would we (general) feel if someone came up and said "we have now made it into an area that we thought we never could. We have one of "us" there."

If I remember correctly, the NAACP actually has at least one White person as a founder. And secondly, a lot of Black folk don't have the highest regard for the organization anyway, so I don't even know if many of us would even care, LOL.

There was an article about how some blacks feel they can be something now because of what Obama accomplished. While others are saying that his story is "too different" and therefore doesn't really understand the plight of the black man. Either way, it shows that we have definitely gone backwards.

I'm not understanding; how do both views shown that we've gone backwards? If anything, I'd say that the former view is a cause for great hope in America. Truth be told, we have known this for some time, but we've never seen it manifested in such a dramatic fashion. We've known and seen that Black folks can be astronauts, star athletes, gifted musicians, millionaires and billionaires, etc. But the President of the United States is seen as the pinnacle of achievement in this country, and for a Black man to occupy that office is seen as absolutely shattering the glass ceiling. I had conversations with Black folks a few days after the election, and we all agreed that this moment now means that we, as a people, have to do our part and cut out the excuses. I don't see how that be constructed as anything BUT good.

When you live in a predominantly black area and the only corner stores are owned by Asians or Latinos, when there use to be black owned stores. When ppl don't like shopping "black" because it's too expensive.

That's because we bought into the mentality that "White is right" during the Civil Rights movement. But that's another subject.

When talking properly is looked upon as a bad thing. Not wearing name brand clothes is seen as bad. Having a 2 family household is seen as weird. When making fast money is seen as better and more productive than an education. When ebonics, and sagging pants, shorter skirts, cleavage and midriffs is seen as what we should be wearing....when we get to the place that rappers think that it's good to call our women all types of names and yet ppl buy their music....we've done a bad disservice. Even in talking to young ladies/men it's a LOT to try to retrain their way of thinking.

A lot of this is endemic to our (American) culture in general, and Black subculture in particular. Great points though.

[Jasmine]

Not to be funny or anything, but there is something Chris Rock said that is so true, but was hilarious when he made the statement. He joked about how in his neighborhood. there were about 3 blacks. I believe Mary J Blidge, and a basketball superstar. Now, his nextdoor neighbor is white, his occupation, he's a dentist. What he was trying to say was..to live in his neighborhood and be black, you either had to be a Movie star, a professional athlete, a world renowned R & B singer,...but you definitely couldn't be a dentist. If you were black, and a dentist, and lived in his neighbor, then you probably would have had to invent teeth or something to that extent.

So, For the next President of the USA to be black, is very huge ordeal in my opinion. We have long told our kids, that they can be what they want, and acheive anything. We hoped it, we said it to encourage our little peoples to never give up, but lets be honest, that statement stopped short with the President of USA.

Until now...The fact that black people finally got up off the " I don't vote bench", should be praised, because the former was attacked by dogs, drenched with firehoses, and completely stripped of such rights.

With as much hope that lies within me, I hope that we are moving forward as a people, and as a nation by seeing a black face, where it has never been seen before.

We've seen black faces there before, but its not parking cars, standing watch guard, cooking, cleaning, or singing. Its in a position of power.

[Nikkol]

Didn't know where to put it and I got tired of "looking"...lol


Italy Not Cool With Obama Nativity Figures

Police in Naples shut down vendors of nativity scenes featuring the Prez-elect alongside Jesus. Why so touchy?
By Elizabeth Bougerol

Updated 9:15 AM EST, Wed, Dec 17, 2008

Police shut down a vendor for offering Barack Obama nativity figures in Italy.

Thank your stars you don't live in Italy, where you can get shut down for selling Barack Obama nativity figures.

According to UPI, police in Naples -- birthplace of pizza! -- closed a shopping area pimping its nativity figurines of Barack and Michelle Obama, alongside the usual suspects (Mary, Jesus, donkeys, etc.).

All this would make one think Italians have no sense of humor, which is totally untrue - after all, socialist party leader, media mogul, football-team owner, Economist whipping boy, and (in his spare time) prime minister Silvio Berlusconi is famous for his wit.


He's the one who commented on our President-elect's "suntan" after Obama swept the election last month.


And if anyone knows his way around UV rays, it's Silvio "Leatherface" Berlusconi. Need more proof Italians are usually totally hilarious? Noted Italian, hottie model, and purry singer Carla Bruni married France's Nicolas Sarkozy. They love a good joke over there.

Besides, the Italians we know aren't nearly so touchy. We once saw a house in Howard Beach, Brooklyn, that was rocking a nativity made up of Mickey Mouse, George W. and Laura Bush, and Bruce Springsteen, life-sized and animatronic.

Plus, it's not like they were insinuating Obama was actually the son of God -- and we can't say the same for some people on this side of the pond. <cough>Jon Stewart<cough>

We think Naples is just envious of our awesome new President. Or it could also have something to do with sacrilege. Maybe that.

Copyright NBC Local Media / NBC Philadelphia