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Post by livinganewlife on Dec 4, 2008 11:48:54 GMT -5
Greetings BB members,
On December 1, 2008 around 8:00PM something “revolutionary” happened to me…..
I was at home (alone) getting ready to watch TV and all of a sudden my TV cable box went out and started to reset itself….. Well I lay in bed in the dark for a minute as I decided not to turn on any light because the cable network was only resetting which takes only a few minutes…..
I have cathedral windows in my bedroom and don’t have any blinds or curtains on the top part of the windows so I can see the clear sky….
I looked up and saw the most amazing site ever…….I saw the brightest star ever in my life and this star had me in a trance for at least 20 minutes…..
Of course I thought it was the enemy trying to get me to “star gaze” and I tried to look away and just couldn’t….. The spirit dealt with me and the passage of scriptures that kept coming to my mind about how the wise men followed a star to get to Jesus….. of course the more I thought about it the more I begin to receive revelation about what this night really meant and trust me my spirit was truly blessed…..
I was concerned about the star situation and did some research as to what went on Monday night, well at any rate the planets lined up with the moon (Jupiter and Venus)….I also studied again the story of the wise men and was shocked to learn that they were astrologers and that when the stars lined up that was their sign to look for Jesus……… All that night as I was star gazing I kept hearing over and over in my spirit was What did the Wise Men Find by following the star ….following the star they found deliverance, salvation, peace, love and all things good on the Earth in this baby born in Bethlehem…….
Also for me the star represented that a birthing was taking place……
Well not to get to deep into this…..I begin to wonder are we as saints of God living beneath our privileges because we have allowed the enemy to come and pervert creation and the things God will use as signs to us through erroneous teachings…..
I say that because we (especially in my Pentecostal background) we were told always not to believe in astronomy or astrology as it was from the devil…..and also the belief in numbers (but the Bible has an entire book of Numbers)…….
On December 1, 2008 because of my teaching I was to afraid to “gaze at the stars for to long” because I felt that this was evil (as that’s what I had been taught) ….but God was trying to give me revelation and I had to struggle with my “tradition teachings” in order to get a breakthrough……
Now in no way am I advocating worshipping stars, numbers, science or any of the such but hopefully we can have a discussion about how these studies have their place in Biblical beliefs and that God does use astronomy, astrology and numbers for his purposes….
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Post by krazeeboi on Dec 4, 2008 14:52:56 GMT -5
I've heard that the signs of the Zodiac were historically biblically based and that it was "perverted" so to speak, but each sign actually points to Christ in some way. I know that Marilyn Hickey teaches this.
Let's also not forget that the Bible talks about signs and wonders in the heavens.
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Post by giantsdodie on Dec 4, 2008 17:07:37 GMT -5
I have something to share on this later when I can get home and post some notes....
First there is a HUGE difference between ASTRONOMY and ASTROLOGY... people often confuse the two..
This is the definition of Astronomy...
The science which teaches the knowledge of the celestial bodies, their magnitudes, motions, distances, periods of revolution, aspects, eclipses, order, &c. This science depends on observations, made chiefly with instruments, and upon mathematical calculations.
Can God use astronomical things in nature to point to his glory.. OF COURSE... He uses nature to point to his glory all the time...
Will God use astrology.. NO.. Astrology is defined as "A system of divination using the positions of stars, planets, and the moon, in the twelve Zodiac signs, as a means to predict the future. One's birth date falls into a Zodiac sign and this is used in determining predictive events in relation to the astral body positions. "
GOD does not use divination to reveal anything. The Bible has always taken a stance against diviners and astrologers.
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Post by Jasmine on Dec 5, 2008 0:11:00 GMT -5
I can't remember on what thread its located on, but nina provided a lengthy post on astronomy. I believe about a year ago.
The thread has a similar name..There was great information provided by both nina2 and giants.
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Post by giantsdodie on Dec 5, 2008 8:47:57 GMT -5
Ok
One thing I would like to say. I dont believe it is the will of God for HIS people to look for signs. I believe that GOD wants to declare HIS WILL. I believe we in many ways have reduced GOD to giving us signs...
However one thing about the wise men that we need to be aware of. Lets look at the scripture...
Matthew 2:1-16
1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.
The Wise Men got a sign, traveled for more than a year and still didn’t have the right spot (stopped in Jerusalem not Bethlehem) and did they completely understand who they were coming to worship (they knew he was a king but did they know he was the Messiah the savior of the World?)
We have this picture in our mind of the Wise men seeing baby Jesus in a manger from the Christmas manger scenes and the Little Drummer Boy cartoon. But when they got there Jesus was NOT a baby. He was a YOUNG CHILD.. as the scripture say...
Now lets examine the people of COVENANT...
Luke 2:1-17
1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.
2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
18 And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
The shepherds’ got an angel. A messenger from God who told them exactlywhere to go, who they would be seeing and they arrived the same DAY that Jesus was born.
The shepherds were Jews. The wise men were not. They were people of COVENANT. God declared HIS WILL unto them. He made it known exactly what He was doing in the earth.
This is what the Word of GOD says about God declaring HIS WILL to HIS people...
Psalm 25:14
The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will show them his covenant.
Amos 3:7 AMP
Surely the Lord God will do nothing without revealing His secret to His servants the prophets.
Ephesians 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Daniel 2:22
22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him
John 15:15 (King James Version)
15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
1 Corinthians 2:9,10
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Luke 8:10
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
James 1:5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
This is the level we should be on as saints of God. Seeking GOD for HIS WILL.. not signs...
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Post by livinganewlife on Dec 5, 2008 9:04:11 GMT -5
What really got me to thinking is that as I searched and studied this story found in Matthew 2 there is a (biblical) translation that clearly describe the wise men as astrologers.... Check this out: I copied this from Biblegateway.com Matthew 2 (Amplified Bible) Matthew 2 1NOW WHEN Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men [astrologers] from the east came to Jerusalem, asking, 2Where is He Who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the east at its rising and have come to worship Him.(A)
3When Herod the king heard this, he was disturbed and troubled, and the whole of Jerusalem with him.
4So he called together all the chief priests and learned men (scribes) of the people and anxiously asked them where the Christ was to be born.
5They replied to him, In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:
6And you Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, you are not in any way least or insignificant among the [c]chief cities of Judah; for from you shall come a Ruler ([d]Leader) Who will govern and [e]shepherd My people Israel.(B)
7Then Herod sent for the wise men [astrologers] secretly, and [f]accurately to the last point ascertained from them the time of the appearing of the star [that is, [g]how long the star had made itself visible since its rising in the east].
8Then he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, Go and search for the Child carefully and diligently, and when you have found [h]Him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship Him.
9When they had listened to the king, they went their way, and behold, the star which had been seen in the east in its rising went before them until it came and stood over the place where the young Child was.
10When they saw the star, they were thrilled with ecstatic joy.
11And on going into the house, they saw the Child with Mary His mother, and they fell down and worshiped Him. Then opening their treasure bags, they presented to Him gifts--gold and frankincense and myrrh.
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Post by keita on Dec 5, 2008 10:46:26 GMT -5
I can't remember on what thread its located on, but nina provided a lengthy post on astronomy. I believe about a year ago.
The thread has a similar name..There was great information provided by both nina2 and giants. Sis jas, I agree that it was a good one and.... HERE it is.  |
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Post by keita on Dec 5, 2008 11:47:12 GMT -5
I dont believe it is the will of God for HIS people to look for signs. Bro giants, I would agree with you about GOD's will and that pursuit. But I also think our "seeking" signs (which Jesus condemned) is very different from paying (right(eous)) attention to them. And I believe that the latter was fully intended, and is both taught and advised by GOD as wisdom in His Word. First there is a HUGE difference between ASTRONOMY and ASTROLOGY... people often confuse the two.. I absolutely agree with you about that. But I disagree that understanding the distinction rightly results in the overly simplistic conclusion of: "astronomy"= "good" and "astrology"= "bad" . That's because when it comes to the things of GOD, I'm big on original intent and I have learned that what astrology originally was and what it has become are two very different things.... Just like everything else Satan has stolen from God's people and perverted for his use. Well, as I said above, as well as on the "other thread", I don't think the distinction you're making is actually or quite that cut and dried: Btw, there are no "astronomers", per se, in the bible. "Astrology" was the only term given to the science of measuring the heavens from ancient/biblical times. So folks like the Magi and the Issacharites were "astrologers".
The distinction between "astrology" and "astronomy" did not come about until later, and much more recently, in order to determine a science and extract it from the mythical system that had been developed around "astrology".
In doing so, imho, the perfect, beautiful baby (God's Wisdom and Truth) got thrown out with the dirty bathwater (Satan's perversion). |
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Post by giantsdodie on Dec 5, 2008 14:50:59 GMT -5
What really got me to thinking is that as I searched and studied this story found in Matthew 2 there is a (biblical) translation that clearly describe the wise men as astrologers.... Check this out: I copied this from Biblegateway.com Matthew 2 (Amplified Bible) Matthew 2 1NOW WHEN Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men [astrologers] from the east came to Jerusalem, asking, 2Where is He Who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the east at its rising and have come to worship Him.(A)
3When Herod the king heard this, he was disturbed and troubled, and the whole of Jerusalem with him.
4So he called together all the chief priests and learned men (scribes) of the people and anxiously asked them where the Christ was to be born.
5They replied to him, In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:
6And you Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, you are not in any way least or insignificant among the [c]chief cities of Judah; for from you shall come a Ruler ([d]Leader) Who will govern and [e]shepherd My people Israel.(B)
7Then Herod sent for the wise men [astrologers] secretly, and [f]accurately to the last point ascertained from them the time of the appearing of the star [that is, [g]how long the star had made itself visible since its rising in the east].
8Then he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, Go and search for the Child carefully and diligently, and when you have found [h]Him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship Him.
9When they had listened to the king, they went their way, and behold, the star which had been seen in the east in its rising went before them until it came and stood over the place where the young Child was.
10When they saw the star, they were thrilled with ecstatic joy.
11And on going into the house, they saw the Child with Mary His mother, and they fell down and worshiped Him. Then opening their treasure bags, they presented to Him gifts--gold and frankincense and myrrh.
This is true however you have to recognize the distinction from those that that followed a sign.. and those that knew the WILL... The Wise Men got a sign, traveled for more than a year and still didn’t have the right spot (stopped in Jerusalem not Bethlehem) and did they completely understand who they were coming to worship (they knew he was a king but did they know he was the Messiah the savior of the World?) We have this picture in our mind of the Wise men seeing baby Jesus in a manger from the Christmas manger scenes and the Little Drummer Boy cartoon. But when they got there Jesus was NOT a baby. He was a YOUNG CHILD.. as the scripture say... Compare that to the shepards... The shepherds’ got an angel. A messenger from God who told them exactly where to go, who they would be seeing and they arrived the same DAY that Jesus was born. The shepherds were Jews. The wise men were not. They were people of COVENANT. God declared HIS WILL unto them. He made it known exactly what He was doing in the earth. There is not doubt that GOD has used the heavens to show his glory.. CREATION shows His glory.. However if we are asking the question whether we should view ASTROLOGY as a method God uses I would have to say no. While I can agree that we have a clearer distinction today between the science of examining the stars and fortune telling we have to also understand that the practice of atrology in biblical times was a little bit of both depending on the individual involved. We cant make a case for biblical astrology. In fact the bible speaks expressly against it. The Bible warns people against relying on astrologers and astrology: You are wearied with your many counsels; let now the astrologers, those who prophesy by the stars, those who predict by the new moons, stand up and save you from what will come upon you. Behold, they have become like stubble, fire bums them; they cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame... there is none to save you (Isaiah 47: 13-15, NASB). Other warnings can be found in such verses as Jeremiah 10:2: "Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of Heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them." Elsewhere, the Scripture says, "And beware, lest you lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them" (Deuteronomy 4:19, NASB). The Book of Daniel gives us a comparison between the astrologers and those dedicated to the true and living God. Chapter 1:20 reveals that Daniel and his three friends would be ten times better in matters of wisdom and understanding than the astrologers because they served the living and true God rather than the stars. When the king had a dream, the astrologers could not give an explanation for it, but rather God alone had the answer, for it is only He who can reveal the future (see Daniel 2: 27, 28). So while I agree that GOD can and has and will continue to use signs and wonders to point to HIS glory I cannot m make any case for " biblical " astrology or for astrology being OK because the wise men shows up two years late in the wrong place with an audience with an evil king, not knowing WHO they were worshipping. Especially when the shepards got a visitation from an angel a direct messenger from God telling them EXACTLY who was born, amd exactly what day and exactly where. |
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Post by keita on Dec 5, 2008 15:58:15 GMT -5
I'm really feeling something of another "semantics" issue here, but anywho... No one will get ANY argument from me refuting that the most common present day definition, understanding and use of astrology is anything less than an utter abomination to GOD.So I agree with bro giants that GOD most certainly does and would not use any of that. But my point is that astrology was not always or originally what it has become. For me, that makes the subject grounds for the often difficult and tiresome work of right recovery and proper restoration. To me, there is no question that astrology, as God intended, gave and continues to use it, both was and is good. Problem is, because of Satan's perversion, ALL use and types of astrology, whether then or now, are not of or from GOD, or even the same as each other. Now, I understand that the easiest and perhaps even "safest" way to address that problem would be just to reject and avoid all astrology and simply teach others to do the same. And, as GOD's people, I think we take that approach to this and (far too) many things that the enemy has stolen. But imho, doing so is never GOD's will for His people nor His best. Soooo... if we are asking the question whether we should view
ASTROLOGY as a method God uses I would have to say no. And I would have to say yes... in the way GOD originally intended and gave it to His people I do believe that we most certainly can but really don't have to. Because I contend that GOD, in His Word, has already done precisely that. I would totally disagree with your statement that as I see no rightly translated, interpreted scripture which prohibits GOD's people from the use of astrology, as He gave and intended it. But I FULLY agree that which is a different matter ( relying upon astrology). Your statement is truth and is the truth supported by the scriptures you cited. Throughout the entirety of scripture, GOD emphatically warns His people about the danger of relying on ANYTHING or ANYONE, more than or above HIMSELF, even when it/they are HIS, . That truth, understanding and wisdom would certainly apply to the proper use of astrology by GOD's people, but it in no way prohibits their righteous (scripturally speaking) use of it. Now, regarding the wise men and the shepherds ... Although "it took a while" for "the magi" to come from the east", they clearly knew they were seeking "Israel's" newborn king. What the magi actually knew/believed about Jesus, and why they went to such lengths to honor Him, has long been the subject of much discussion. And it is certainly entirely possible that the magi were (at least in their minds and understanding) merely performing the government protocol of an ordinary state visit. But, it has been written that these "wise men" represented some of Abraham's descendants who had actually, from, at least, the time of King Solomon and Queen of Sheba, long been watching and waiting for that particular "star sign" announcing Messiah's arrival . For me, that added a whole 'nother aspect to the magi's long journey and expressed desire to pay homage to this king. And that makes it at least, and especially, interesting to me just how actively and directly engaged I believe the GOD of "Israel" actually was in the entire journey of those particular astrologers. Because astrologers they most definitely were. And "foreigners" at that. As for the "Jewish" shepherds, they were of a people who had long been watching and waiting for their promised Messiah and King at that time. But simply their being "Jews" (and btw, many would say that not all of them were) apparently didn't mean much in terms of their understanding. Because most "Jews" were, and in fact remained, completely baffled by, and ultimately rejected, the whole Messiah/King-born poor-in a lowly manger arrival of Christ on the earth. Which is precisely (and among even greater and more divine reasons) why, despite signs, wonders, and prophetic fulfillments galore, so many "Jews" are still waiting. "He came unto His own but His own received Him not..."So it seems highly and most likely to me that neither the "(native) shepherds" nor the "(foreign) wise men" fully understood the who and what of Messiah. Yet, nevertheless, seeking and waiting, both were led, whether by a long-awaited word from GOD or an even longer-anticipated (star)sign from GOD, to the place of Messiah, ... and THEY WORSHIPPED HIM!!!But that's probably another thread, lolol!  |
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Post by nina2 on Dec 12, 2008 11:37:19 GMT -5
It's really difficult to find a starting point for this topic, because there is so much going into it.
The most important - to me - is to go to the source, the beginning, and that's God and the word of God.
We are told to seek wisdom, but not just wisdom. With wisdom, we are told to seek understanding, not just knowledge. Knowledge without understanding is sterile>
Whatever we "get", as believers, has to be brought in line with and in light of God's word and what he wills to reveals to us.
It is said that "science is the wisdom of the nations", not that it is useless or to be ignored. it is not, however, divine wisdom....
(I might repeat some things that have already been said, and I apologize for it. And, this might take me a while so, again, forgive me...)
When it comes to astrology and astronomy..... In the beginning, there was no such thing as astronomy as we have come to know it in modern times (even though it started also way back....)
There has always been a "fascination" for the heavens, from the beginning of time(s). Even in the Bible, it is mentioned in more than one place.
However, when the Torah was given at Sinai, there were specific instructions given to the Jews as to how to keep time properly in order to obey God's commandments regarding the sabbath, festivals, etc...
How did they do that? By observing with their naked eyes. The Jewish calendar is still a lunar calendar...
So, on one hand, they were commanded to observe the moon and stars.
On the other, they were forbidden to fall into worshipping them, the creation, instead of the creator.
I have some information about that, and I am just giving it here.
It would be great to have a discussion about all that so, this might help keep it going.
First, astronomy and astrology, what came first? Astrology. Not what we call astrology today, which is divination and an abomination to God.
Here is some of what I found:
History of Astrology:
"How, where, when, did astrology originate? How, where, when, why did man first begin to believe that the Sun, Moon and visible planets influence his character and life, the health of his beasts, the quality of his crops, the weather - indeed, every aspect of life on earth?
The answer must be, almost as soon as he was capable of intelligent thought, for he then realized that the Sun as a source of warmth and light ruled all living things; that with the Moon the tides swelled and sank, that it affected other natural cycles, that it had an effect upon emotional stability. Here was the basis of an astrological theory. Interestingly, some of the earliest astrological artefacts to have survived come from the Middle East where, in about 15,000 BC, the earliest agricultural systems evolved - gardeners have always recognized that there is a difference between the quality of morning and afternoon light, and that the times at which plants are planted, herbs picked, seem to affect their growth and virtue.
On the whole, it must have been man's natural reverence for the magical, strange moving lights in the sky, regarded as gods, that led to the development of astrology. Out of the thick mists that conceal the earliest history of the subject have come down to us a number of cuneiform tablets - brick and stone slabs inscribed with triangular or wedge-shaped characters - recording the very simplest astronomical phenomena: eclipses of the Moon, certain planetary movements, interpreted as predicting famine or war or peace or plenty.
Babylonia during the 18th-17th centuries BC was riddled with superstition, and many omens were used and recorded - the bites of certain animals, dreams, patterns of bird flight, the appearance of new-born babies ('When a woman bears a child with small ears, the house will fall into ruin'), and such eccentricities as the appearance in one's house of a pig with palm fibres in its mouth. Astronomical phenomena were only one aspect of man's attempts to predict the future, but a very widespread one: an interest in the earliest form of astrology was common to several early civilizations, not only in the Middle East, from Anatolia to Persia, but in the Far East and in the Incan, Mayan and Mexican civilizations, where those planets that could be seen by the naked eye - Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn - were identified as gods with various names and personalities, and where their movements against the background pattern of the stars were regarded as obviously significant.
Astronomer-astrologers slowly acquired more and more knowledge about the planets, and began not only to observe eclipses but the way in which the planets moved - sometimes hesitating, sometimes appearing to move backwards, sometimes seeming to meet each other, then part; as they did so, they elaborated the predictions they based on the movements. Only the roughest forecasts were being made in the time of Ammisaduqa, tenth king of the First Dynasty, in the 17th century BC, but royal libraries of the Assyrian kings at Nineveh, Calah (Nimrud) and Ashur in the 8th-7th centuries BC, and the temple libraries of the chief cities of Babylon, had on their shelves a collection of over 7000 astrological omens recorded on 70 tablets (now known, after the opening words of the first omen, as Enuma Anu Enlil).
The reason why this elaboration of the astrological theory took place in the Middle East rather than, say, among the American Indians of Wisconsin or among the Aztecs, who certainly had an equally keen early interest in the subject, was that the Babylonians were better astronomers and mathematicians; they evolved a calendar, and by 500 BC were already moving towards the invention of the zodiac, that essential element in the personalization of astrology.
The Babylonians puzzled for centuries over the patterns in the night sky before producing a calendar reliable enough to enable them to predict eclipses and to work 'backwards' in order to figure out the celestial events of the past. They seem to have started by simply working out the duration of day and night, then of the rising and setting of the Moon and the appearance and disappearance of Venus. The very earliest calendars date a new month from the first appearance of a new Moon. But the fact that the interval between new Moons is irregular - on average, 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes and 3 seconds - meant that it was extremely difficult to devise a calendar in which each month began with the new Moon, but each year began at the spring equinox. (To do so, you have to declare an extra month every two or three years - and even then you will be one and a half days out every eight years.)
The details of early calendars and their evolution are complex; suffice to say that the problem was solved with reasonable accuracy (and, let us remember, without the aid of mechanical clocks) by the Babylonians. Since then, there have been additional complications and evolutions. Julius Caesar had to summon an astronomer from Alexandria to sort out the muddle into which the Roman calendar degenerated, and his Julian calendar eventually fell out of phase by no less than eleven days, so that in 1752 Britain was forced to adopt the Gregorian calendar (established in the rest of Europe by Pope Gregory in 1582), cutting eleven days from the year. At midnight on 2 September came 14 September, and people rioted in the streets because they thought the civil servants were doing them out of eleven days of life.
Once a calendar had been devised, observation and the application of mathematics meant that planetary movements could be predicted. The next step was the invention of the zodiac.
In the first place this was devised as a means of measuring time. It is a circle around which twelve constellations are set, each marking a segment of thirty degrees of the ecliptic, the imaginary path the Sun seems to follow on its journey round the earth. Because that journey takes more or less 365 days, astronomers in Babylon, Egypt and China independently arrived at the idea of dividing the ecliptic into 360 degrees, easily divisible into twelve sections.
The circle, for practical purposes, had to start somewhere. In ancient times it started variously from certain fixed stars - from Aldebaran or the Bull's Eye, for instance, or from Regulus, the brightest star in Leo. In modern astrology it starts from the vernal equinox - the point at which the Sun seems to cross the equator from south to north at the spring equinox of the northern hemisphere on 20, 21 or 22 March each year.
But the equinox not only never occurs in the same spot for two years running, but its place slowly seems to rotate around the sky, taking about 28,800 years to complete the circuit (a phenomenon known as Precession of the Equinox). This is because the Earth, as it rotates, wobbles like a top slowing down; the Pole thus describes a circle, moving backwards through the zodiac. Similarly, if the zodiac is measured from a fixed point (say the first degree of Aries), it moves slowly backwards. However, this is the system used by most modern astrologers; it is known as the tropical zodiac. Some astrologers, like the ancients, use the fixed or sidereal zodiac, measured from the stars (not as fixed as all that, however, for it too moves - by one day in every 72 years!).
For some time it was believed that the zodiac as we know it originated in Babylon. More recently, it has become clear that it is the product of Babylonian, Egyptian and Assyrian astronomy. The Ram, for instance, the symbol of Aries, is of Egyptian origin; Taurus, the Bull, originated in Babylon, where it was called Gud.anna. Leo, the Lion, is Egyptian (in Babylon the same constellation figure was called the Great Dog). Some signs sprang to symbolic life in two countries: the Geminian Twins were the Babylonian Mastabba.galgal, but also very probably the Two Stars of Egypt; and the Crab of Cancer was Babylonian, but also existed as the Egyptian Two Turtles, and later became the Tortoise of Greek and Chinese astrology. The symbols attached to the constellations have a long history: the Bull and Scorpion can be found, signifying spring and autumn, on a stele (commemorative stone) of Nebuchadnezzar I, who reigned during the 12th century BC.
How did the constellations get their names? Clearly, most of them were not instantly recognizable in the pictorial sense. Who could possibly claim that shown the pattern of stars which makes up, say, Taurus, they would automatically connect them into the shape of a bull? On the other hand it seems very possible that Gemini became the sign of the twins because of the bright twin stars in the constellation; Scorpio's pattern does seem to suggest a tail like that of a scorpion; and it seems similarly likely that the pattern of stars in Leo did remind someone of the silhouette of a lion.
Other connectlons arose for other reasons, perhaps agricultural (when the Moon was full in Virgo, for instance, the Babylonians could expect the fruition of the young standing corn), perhaps growing from the dark realms of the collective unconscious; and one or two of the signs may simply have been named as the result of some early astronomer imposing his own pattern upon a constellation for no other reason than that he needed to call it something, and the most memorable way of naming it was to connect it with a myth.
The earliest Babylonian zodiac of which we know had eighteen constellations: ten of the twelve we still use, and in addition the Pleiades, Hyades, Orion, Perseus, Auriga, Praesepe and the southern and northern fish. These are described in the mul.APIN tablets from the royal libraries of Assyria as 'constellations which stand in the path of the Moon, and into the region of which the moons pass monthly, and which they touch.'
As early as about 1000 BC a zodiac of a kind existed, even if not the one we know today. The eighteen-sign zodiac was still in use between the 6th and 3rd centuries BC. We cannot know with any certainty when the twelve-sign zodiac came into being; all we can say is that it did so very slowly and uncertainly, for even as late as the beginning of the Christian era the zodiac as we know it was not settled, although the earliest record we have of its being used for astrological prediction is from the 5th century in Babylon, and the 3rd century in Egypt.
But what of astrology outside the Middle East? Its development in India is if anything more difficult to trace than in Babylon, for the early history of astronomy and astrology in India is not only obscure but often falsified: at least we can assume that this is so when we read the still commonly asserted statement that the first Indian astronomical textbook, the Surya Siddhanta, was published in the year 2,163,I02 BC.
If the origins of astrology are obscure, the influences on Indian astrologers are clearer. Alexandria, for instance, had a great influence during the 6th century AD, when many Greek terms found their way into Indian astrological terminology during the lifetimes of the most famous ancient Indian astronomers, Aryabhata, Varaha Mihira and Brahmagupta. And it seems likely that the concept of the zodiac reached India via Alexandria, for Indian astrologers for some time used two sets of names for the constellations - one a straight transliteration of the Greek, the other a translation into Sanskrit; so the Greek Tauros became Taurusi, and then in Sanskrit Vrisha (the Bull), while the Greek Leon became Leya and was then translated as Simha (the Lion).
It is strange that astrology did not make its way to India via Persia, just east of Babylonia - the gateway to Samarkand and China. But the Persian interest in the planets was quite different, in early centuries, from that of the Babylonians; its only contribution to the history of the zodiac seems to be the 'invention' of the four elements, Fire, Earth, Air and Water, later brought into the astrological scheme by Ptolemy. It was in Persia, however, that Mithraism arose - a religion that flourished between 100 BC and AD 400, and was to be responsible in large measure for the spread of astrology through the Roman empire, when as a military faith it carried belief in the influence of the planets to the furthest outposts, including Londinium. The signs of the zodiac were found in every mithraeum, often surrounding a carved representation of Bull sacrifice.
Neither in Persian nor in Arabic was there ever any distinction between the terms for astrology and astronomy; when the classical texts refer to munajjimun, it almost always means both (and this is true throughout the world). Islamic astronomy derived from Greek, Indian and Persian sources - from Dorotheus of Sidon, Ptolemy, Antiochos of Athens, Vettius Valens and Teukros, along with Sassanid works which were often translations of Greek and Indian texts into Pahlavi, the main language of Persia in the 3rd to 7th centuries AD. Obviously Islamic astrology was a relatively late development.
The Muslims were naturally attracted to the subject, however. (The Koran seems to have encouraged them, with its various astrological references - for instance, 'He it is Who hath set for you the stars that ye may guide your course by them amid the darkness of the land and the sea.') Muslim astrologers drew up individual horoscopes and wrote astrological world histories (the best known being by Masha'allah and Abu Ma'shar al'Balkhi), but their chief interest was in cosmological symbolism - in astrology as it provided a means through which man could discover his own place in the cosmos and become aware of the 'reality' lying outside his own earthly life.
The Chinese have a list of twelve animals which mark their years: a child is born in the year of the boar, the rat, the ox, the tiger, the rabbit, the dragon, the snake, the horse, the sheep, the monkey, the rooster or the dog - alternatively 'positive' or 'negative' signs (the boar is 'negative'), and with the first three signs being 'water' signs, the next three 'wood', the next three 'fire' and the last three 'metal'. They are often represented in a circle (a 'zodiac' of 28 constellations was said to have originated in 2317 BC), but although there are certain very faint connections between the Western signs and the Chinese animals, these are hardly worth detailed examination. The Western zodiac was known in China by the 17th century AD, having been taken there by the Jesuits - but perhaps even earlier by travellers along the central Asian caravan routes.
.../...
Once the signs and planets had begun to assume their characteristics, the zodiac was formed and a reliable calendar devised, the last ingredient was available for the development of the horoscope as we know it, and of modern astrology. The simple omens of early times were about to give way to more elaborate predictions: at first still relatively simple, but becoming more and more complex until far from such simple statements as 'If a child is born when the Moon is come forth, his life will be bright, excellent, regular and long', astrologers would be able to write many thousands of words about the personality, character, potential, health and motivations of a new-born child.
And what about astronomy?....
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Post by nina2 on Dec 12, 2008 11:47:06 GMT -5
History of astronomy:
"History of the science that studies all the celestial bodies in the universe. Astronomy includes the study of planets and their satellites, comets and meteors, stars and interstellar matter, star systems known as galaxies, and clusters of galaxies. The field of astronomy has developed from simple observations about the movement of the Sun and Moon into sophisticated theories about the nature of the universe.
II Overview
Advances in astronomy over the centuries have depended to a great extent on developments in technology. Initially, ancient peoples could only view the sky with their eyes. With careful attention to the changing positions of the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars, they were able to develop calendars and ultimately predictions of rare events, including eclipses. Instruments that allowed the measurement of the precise positions of celestial objects were the first major technological development, and those measurements formed the basis of models of the solar system.
The invention of the telescope in the early 1600s completely changed scientists’ ideas about the structure of the solar system and led to the discovery of new planets around our own sun. The telescope was also key to the measurement of distances to nearby stars and thereby provided the first clues to just how vast the universe is. The invention of the spectroscope combined with photography led to the discovery that the stars are made of the same elements found here on Earth.
Astronomy is different from most other sciences in that, apart from the planets we have visited by spacecraft, researchers cannot do experiments in the laboratory with the objects that they want to study. Instead, astronomers must learn about these distant objects by relying entirely on the visible light and other forms of energy—electromagnetic radiation—that are given off by them. The great breakthroughs of the 20th century were the development of spacecraft that allowed scientists to observe the universe from outside the distorting effects of Earth’s atmosphere, and the development of new sensors sensitive to forms of energy our eyes cannot detect. Examples are X rays , gamma rays, infrared or heat energy, and radio waves. These new windows on the universe have greatly expanded astronomical knowledge. See also Space Exploration.
III Ancient Origins
Ancient astronomers had only their eyes with which to view the sky, but they had a very practical reason for studying the skies. Thousands of years ago, changes in the heavens were the only available clocks and calendars. The stars could also be used for navigation.
Ancient Babylonian, Assyrian, and Egyptian astronomers all knew the approximate length of the year. The Egyptians of 3,000 years ago adopted a calendar with a year that was 365 days long, very near the modern value of 365.242 days. The Egyptians also used the rising of the star Sirius in the pre-dawn sky to mark the time when the Nile River could be expected to flood. The Chinese determined the approximate length of the year at about the same time as the Egyptians. The Maya of Central America kept a continuous record of days from day zero, which occurred on our equivalent of August 13, 3114 bc. They also kept track of years, eclipses, and the motions of the visible planets. Their year consisted of 18 months, each 20 days long, plus one 5-day month to total 365 days. Occasional adjustments were made to allow for the extra quarter of a day.
The adjustments required in the Maya calendar illustrate a common problem faced by ancient astronomers. Neither an entire month nor an entire year contains an exact whole number of days; to keep calendar years in step with the seasons, which were important for planting crops, the calendar makers assigned different numbers of days to successive months or years. Even though individual months or years were not the same length, they averaged out to approximately the true value. See also Calendar.
In the British Isles, ancient people used stone circles to keep track of the motions of the Sun and Moon. The best-known example is Stonehenge, a complex array of massive stones, ditches, and holes laid out in concentric circles. Stonehenge was built over an extended period of time lasting from about 2800 to 1500 bc. Some of the stones are aligned with the directions in which the Sun rises and sets at critical times of the year, such as when it reaches its most northerly and southerly points in the sky (the summer and winter solstices).
Ancient astronomers also observed five bright planets (the ones we call Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn). These bodies, together with the Sun and Moon, move relative to the stars within a narrow band called the zodiac. The Moon moves around the zodiac quickly, overtaking the Sun about once every 29.5 days. The Sun and Moon always move along the zodiac from west to east. The five bright planets—Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn—also have a generally eastward motion against the background of the stars. However, ancient astronomers in many different places around the globe noted that Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn sometimes move westward, in a backwards or retrograde direction. These planets, therefore, appear to have an erratic eastward course, with periodic loops in their paths.
In ancient times, people imagined that celestial events, especially the planetary motions, were connected with their own fortunes. This belief, called astrology, encouraged the development of mathematical schemes for predicting the planetary motions and thus furthered the early progress of astronomy. However, none of the systems of astrology has been shown to be at all effective in making verifiable predictions.
Stars provide the background against which the motions of the planets are measured. Ancient Chinese, Egyptians, Greeks, and others gave names to patterns of stars. We call these patterns constellations. Some are very familiar, such as the Big Dipper, the Pleiades, and Orion. Few constellations look like their namesakes. Rather, ancient astronomers probably simply named areas of the sky with prominent groupings of stars after important characters in their mythology.
IV Greek Astronomy
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Modern astronomy can trace its heritage directly back to the ancient Greeks, who began to develop explanations for their observations of the sky. The writings of Aristotle summarize the knowledge of that era. He attributed the phases of the Moon—that is, the changes in its apparent shape—to the fact that we see different portions of its sunlit surface during the month. He also knew that the Sun is farther away from the Earth than the Moon because the Moon occasionally passes between the Sun and Earth and blocks the Sun’s light (a solar eclipse).
Aristotle cited two observations to show that Earth is a sphere. The first is that the shadow of Earth, which is seen during an eclipse of the Moon (when Earth is directly between the Sun and Moon), is always round. Only a sphere always has a round shadow no matter how it is viewed. If the Earth were a disk, we would sometimes see the shadow edge-on, and it would look like a straight line. The second observation was that travelers who journeyed a long distance south reported seeing stars not visible from Greece. If Earth were flat, all travelers anywhere would see the same stars. On a spherical Earth, travelers at different latitudes (different distances north or south) view the sky from different angles and see different constellations.
The Greek astronomer and mathematician Eratosthenes measured the size of the spherical Earth in about 200 bc. He noticed that on the first day of summer in Syene, Egypt, the Sun was directly overhead at noon. On the same date and time in Alexandria, Egypt, the Sun was about 7 degrees south of zenith. With simple geometry and knowledge of the distance between the two cities, he estimated the circumference of the Earth to be 250,000 stadia. (The stadium was a unit of length, derived from the length of the racetrack in an ancient Greek stadium. We have an approximate idea of how big an ancient Greek stadium was, and based on that approximation Eratosthenes was within 20 percent, and possibly within 1 percent, of the correct answer.)
Probably the most original ancient observer of the heavens was Aristarchus of Sámos, a Greek. He believed that motions in the sky could be explained by the hypothesis that Earth turns around on its axis once every 24 hours and, along with the other planets, revolves around the Sun. This theory, however, makes an important prediction that ancient Greeks could not verify. If Earth moves in an orbit around the Sun, then we look at the stars from different directions at different times of the year. As Earth moves along, nearby stars should shift their positions in the sky relative to more distant ones. The Greeks tried to measure this effect for the stars but were unsuccessful. It was only in 1838 that astronomers’ equipment could make measurements with the accuracy required to measure the very small shift of the stars, which turn out to be much, much farther away than the Greeks could imagine.
Perhaps the greatest of the ancient astronomers was Hipparchus, who lived around 150 bc and did most of his work at an observatory he built in Rhodes. There he recorded accurate positions of about 850 bright stars and classified them according to their brightness. The brightest stars he said were of the first magnitude, a term astronomers still use today. Because our planet is not an exact sphere, but bulges at the equator, the gravitational pulls of the Sun and Moon cause it to wobble like a top. It takes about 26,000 years for Earth’s axis to complete one full circle. Hipparchus estimated that the Earth’s axis shifts its position relative to the stars by 46 seconds of arc per year, which is very close to the modern value of 50.26 seconds of arc per year. This is known as the precession of the Earth.
The last of the great ancient astronomers was Ptolemy, who worked in Alexandria in about the year ad 140. Ptolemy’s greatest contribution was a geometrical model of the solar system that made it possible to predict the positions of the planets at any date and time. His model was used for about 1,400 years, until the time of Copernicus. Ptolemy’s challenge was to explain the complex motions of the planets, including the fact that they sometimes appear to move westward or backward in their orbits. In order to explain the observation, he assumed that each planet revolved in a small orbit called an epicycle. The center of the epicycle then revolved about the Earth on a much larger circle. At the time, circles were thought to be the perfect shape. It was assumed that the heavenly bodies would follow the most perfect shape."
And the Bible.......>>>>>>>>>
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Post by nina2 on Dec 12, 2008 12:21:14 GMT -5
The story brought up in this topic includes the one about the Magi who came to worship Jesus.
If it is recorded in the Bible, then God wanted it there. To me, the other important part of the scriptures where astrology is mentioned is the book of Daniel.
Dan 1:3 And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring [certain] of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed, and of the princes;
Dan 1:4 Children in whom [was] no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as [had] ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.
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Dan 1:6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:
Dan 1:7 Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel [the name] of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.
What happened later on:
Daniel - Chapter 4
1 I, Nebuchadnezzar, was at home in my palace, content and prosperous.
2 I had a terrifying dream as I lay in bed, and the images and the visions of my mind frightened me.
3 So I issued a decree that all the wise men of Babylon should be brought before me to give the interpretation of the dream.
4 When the magicians, enchanters, Chaldeans, and astrologers had come in, I related the dream before them; but none of them could tell me its meaning.
5 Finally there came before me Daniel, whose name is Belteshazzar after the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy God. I repeated the dream to him:
6 "Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, I know that the spirit of the holy God is in you and no mystery is too difficult for you; tell me the meaning of the visions that I saw in my dream.
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15 "This is the dream that I, King Nebuchadnezzar, had. Now, Belteshazzar, tell me its meaning. Although none of the wise men in my kingdom can tell me the meaning, you can, because the spirit of the holy God is in you."
Daniel - Chapter 5
1 King Belshazzar gave a great banquet for a thousand of his lords, with whom he drank.
2 Under the influence of the wine, he ordered the gold and silver vessels which Nebuchadnezzar, his father, had taken from the temple in Jerusalem, to be brought in so that the king, his lords, his wives and his entertainers might drink from them.
3 When the gold and silver vessels taken from the house of God in Jerusalem had been brought in, and while the king, his lords, his wives and his entertainers were drinking
4 wine from them, they praised their gods of gold and silver, bronze and iron, wood and stone.
5 Suddenly, opposite the lampstand, the fingers of a human hand appeared, writing on the plaster of the wall in the king's palace. When the king saw the wrist and hand that wrote,
6 his face blanched; his thoughts terrified him, his hip joints shook, and his knees knocked.
7 The king shouted for the enchanters, Chaldeans, and astrologers to be brought in. "Whoever reads this writing and tells me what it means," he said to the wise men of Babylon, "shall be clothed in purple, wear a golden collar about his neck, and be third in the government of the kingdom."
8 But though all the king's wise men came in, none of them could either read the writing or tell the king what it meant.
9 Then King Belshazzar was greatly terrified; his face went ashen, and his lords were thrown into confusion.
10 When the queen heard of the discussion between the king and his lords, she entered the banquet hall and said, "O king, live forever! Be not troubled in mind, nor look so pale!
11 There is a man in your kingdom in whom is the spirit of the holy God; during the lifetime of your father he was seen to have brilliant knowledge and god-like wisdom. In fact, King Nebuchadnezzar, your father, made him chief of the magicians, enchanters, Chaldeans, and astrologers,
12 because of the extraordinary mind possessed by this Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar. He knew and understood how to interpret dreams, explain enigmas, and solve difficulties. Now therefore, summon Daniel to tell you what this means."
13 Then Daniel was brought into the presence of the king. The king asked him, "Are you the Daniel, the Jewish exile, whom my father, the king, brought from Judah?
14 I have heard that the spirit of God is in you, that you possess brilliant knowledge and extraordinary wisdom.
15 Now, the wise men and enchanters were brought in to me to read this writing and tell me its meaning, but they could not say what the words meant.
16 But I have heard that you can interpret dreams and solve difficulties; if you are able to read the writing and tell me what it means, you shall be clothed in purple, wear a gold collar about your neck, and be third in the government of the kingdom."
17 Daniel answered the king: "You may keep your gifts, or give your presents to someone else; but the writing I will read for you, O king, and tell you what it means.
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30 The same night Belshazzar, the Chaldean king, was slain:
History note:
When the Chaldean empire was absorbed into the Achaemenid, the name Chaldean lost its meaning as the name of an ethnic group, and came to be applied to a class. The Persians found the Chaldeans masters of reading and writing, and especially versed in all forms of incantation, in sorcery, witchcraft, and the magical arts. Thus, in Greek, "Chaldean" came to acquire the meaning of "astrologer" (e.g. in Strabo). In this sense it is also used in the Book of Daniel (Dan. 1:4, 2:2ff.).
In the New Testament, there we have them, the Magi..... What about them???
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Post by nina2 on Dec 12, 2008 12:35:28 GMT -5
About the Magi, not the pageantry and silly tradition they have become, again, just information:
THE MAGI - A SHORT HISTORY
"In ancient times, throughout the Middle East, the term 'magi' was not necessarily associated with a particular worship, but rather with a priestly occupation. Originally the title was 'magoi', meaning 'bearers of the gift'. This ritual function was usually, but not always, performed by Chaldees.
The Chaldees are also called 'kasdiym' in the Bible -meaning 'arpakhsadiym' or descendants of Arpachsad, son of Shem, son of Noah. This association is maintained by the first century historian Josephus, in his Jewish Antiquities (1.6.4)
Since 'Chaldee' means 'servant of God' it was probably the Arpachsadite priests who were Chaldees. David Skelly points out that Chaldees are mentioned in Job 1:17, which indicates that Job did not live in antediluvian times.
Job lived in the land of Uz, who was a son of Aram, Arpachsad's brother. Ur of the Chaldees was probably not at the site of the Mesopotamian ruins known today as 'Ur', for the word merely means 'city'. But as Abraham was an Arpachsadite, it is not surprising that he set out on his travels from a Chaldee city, wherever it was.
The Catholic Encyclopedia states that the 'chaldaea' worshipped Bel while the (pre-Zoroastrian) magi worshipped Mithra, but this information is specific to the Jewish Captivity in Babylon.
In general the title was not applied to priests of any one particular religion. Diodorus Siculus bears this out, for he says that magi controlled the temple of Bel in Babylon. (Bibliotheca Historica, II, 31; Ephraem Syrus II, 48) after the Medes had stormed the city.
And priests of Inanna in northern Europe were called 'magi'. They had separated from the southern Chaldees in the time of Peleg, after the sixth millennium flood.
Obviously the title of 'mage' has been bestowed upon priests of different religions.
Nowhere is Zoroaster Spitama, the founder of Zoroastrianism, ever described as a mage. After he experienced revelations from heaven, he was assassinated. It is believed that this crime was ordered by (Mithraic) magi, resistant to a change of religion and threatened by Spitama's doctrine of non-intervention which rendered them obsolete. After Zoroaster Spitama's death magi created the religion called Zoroastrianism, based upon his revelations but retaining their position as priests. Les Gosling writes of the Zoroastrian magi:
"They were astrologers of the first rank, and their influence was known over the ancient world. Providing occult information to the Medo-Persians and Babylonians at a kingly level (Strabo, XVI, 762; Cicero, De Divin., 1, 41) the magi even made inroads into areas of Kashmir where ancient Israelites had established a colony.
By the sixth century B.C.E. they had acquired power to overturn governments (Herodotus, III, 61 sq.)."
I recently wrote a letter to a man named Olaf Hage who has a website called 'The Chapel Perilous'. He was planning to open a page on the Zoroastrian magi, and I was struck by his announcement that they were Ephraimites. I received the following response from Mr. Hage:
"The ancient 'G'KIM' of Daniel's and Joseph's times (the Biblical 'Magi') are hardly Persian in origin. The Persians captured them when they took Babylon, as Daniel relates. Babylon had taken them from Assyria in 612 B.C.E. Assyria had captured them from Israel, as they report on their tablets. Israel traced them back to Ephraim, the heir of Joseph, who was made their chief in Egypt, as Genesis states."
When the Medes stormed Babylon, as related in the Book of Daniel, they incorporated the Bel worshipping Ephraimite Chaldees into their culture.
These Chaldees became Zoroastrian magi, and thus the Israelites became associated with Zoroastrianism.
Martin Haug writes in 'The Sacred Language, Writings, and Religions of the Parsis' (pp. 16): "The Magi are said to have called their religion Kesh-i-Ibrahim. They traced their religious books to Abraham, who was believed to have brought them from heaven"
The Israelite association explains the existence of a Jewish sect called the Essenes and Zoroastrian magi were deeply involved in the establishment of Christianity.
It is very likely that the magi who converted to Christianity were those of Ephraimite descent. Certainly the magian establishment in Persia remained Zoroastrian, and did not approve of them.
The magian Christians were Manichaeans with ideas that contradi cted both Zoroastrians and Christians. 'Before the Burning Times', a history of medieval magian culture, relates:
"Many of the more stubborn adherents were persecuted and executed in Sassania. That was until they banded together and retaliated against the magian hierarchy, launched military attacks against them, then migrated westward, out of Persia and Iran. The only problem is that once they arrived in Christian Byzantium's outer provinces, they found themselves assailed by Christian forces....
"Wherever they went to escape the violence of their many persecutors (whether Zoroastrians or Christians), the magian Christians were progressively exterminated, as at Anatolia where 100,000 were crucified in reprisals by Byzantine Christian troops. On top of that a further 200,000 were repatriated into the Balkans, into a plague city, where it was hoped that the last of them would die. But the plague lifted and these 200,000 extremely anti-Catholic, anti-Orthodox 'heretics' had found a new home.
"To traditional Church authorities the Balkan Peninsula was akin to the mouth of Hades from which belched the pestilential teachings that gnawed away at the body of the Church. That was until Emperor Alexius decided to wipe them from the face of the earth in the 12th Century. But this 'religious cleansing' of the Balkans backfired. Not too far away, in Germany, dazed Catholic priests watched on helplessly as streams of these war refugees started walking into the Holy Roman Empire en-masse, escaping Alexius' dragnet. Their bewilderment was caused by the rapturous welcome these refugees received from the German people who clapped and cheered them on as they passed by."
A propaganda campaign was launched declaring that the refugees were 'black magi' (Satanists). Their association with the Kabbalah suggests that they were Israelites, descendants of the Ephraimite G'KIM.
'Before the Burning Times' speaks also of the magi who took refuge in Russia when Persia was invaded by Muslims:
"It took a mere 20 years for the Muslims to go on the war path after the death of their prophet Mohammed. Between 642 and the first decade of the 8th century A.D. Arab Islamic forces pierced the vulnerable underbelly of magian Iran, and across the Oxus river into the lands of the nomadic Turkic tribes." In 712 A.D. Khorezm, a bastion of Zoroastrianism, fell to Islamic forces.
The magi "had ruled large tracts of Asia, served in the court of the Chinese Emperor, and studied alongside the priests, priestesses and philosophers of Greece, Rome, India and Egypt. Could it be that a religion so famed throughout antiquity should perish?"
'Before the Burning Times' goes on to relate how before the attack on Khorezm, magi had fled into Russia, bringing their books with them. They were given the name 'Kolduny', the Russian word for 'Chaldees', and were associated with both white and black magic.
This brings us to the unpleasant subject of Satanism, for throughout the history of magianism a small minority has always taken that path. It seems apparent that if the term 'magi' applies to priests of different religions, it can apply to Satanists too. And Satanists certainly refer to themselves as magi. Sir Laurence Gardner even refers to them as Chaldees. He believes them to be descendants of Arpachsad through Shem, son of Noah, and descendants of Cain through Ham's wife.
It is due to their alleged descent from Cain that they are Satanists, believing Cain to have been descended from Samael --literally ‘venom on high’, though they say that Samael was not the leader of the fallen angels. Throughout magian history the Satanists have been an unwelcome footnote, but a history of magianism is not complete without a recognition of their existence.
Upon their conversion to Christianity, the magi in northern Europe destroyed all their books. This action, along with condemnation of astrology in the New Testament, suggests that magianism is not compatible with true Christianity. The magi who visited the infant Jesus had been astrologers, but His sacrifice had not yet occurred at that time. According to Christian doctrine, that sacrifice changed the world. And it seems the northern magi agreed.
There is no record in Zoroastrian literature of the magi who visited Christ. David Livingstone, in 'The Dying God', distinguishes between the magi of Persia and the Magusseans, Zurvanites who spoke Aramaic. I believe that Magusseans from the school of Antiochus I Epiphanes were the magi who visited Jesus. They were based in Asia Minor, and were a renegade sect of which the Zoroastrians disapproved.
Mr. Livingstone has said, "The dying god was a deity revered throughout the ancient Near East, and whose death and resurrection was celebrated annually. And, in Babylon, in the sixth century BC, the god was introduced into the cult of the Chaldean Magi.
"However, as scholars have recognized, these Magi were not priests of orthodox Zoroastrianism. Rather, judging from their various tenets, which included a divine triad, pantheism, magic, astrology, number mysticism, the belief in reincarnation and the four elements, their cult was closer in similarity to the Kabbalah, believed also to have originated in the same city in that century.
"In fact, nearly the entire population of the Jewish people, except for a contingent that followed Jeremiah to Egypt, was in Babylon in exile. Many had reached prominent posts, and even Daniel himself was appointed to head the Wise Men, that is, the magi.
"The creed of the Chaldean magi, and its various elements, was introduced to Greece during the Persian invasions, and led to the emergence of what we call philosophy in that region. Then, with the conquests of Alexander, these doctrines were then spread to the rest of the known world, flourishing particularly at Alexandria in Egypt, where they led to the formulation of Gnosticism, Neoplatonism, Hermeticism and the Ancient Mysteries.
"Then came the Arabs of Islam, who picked up on this tradition, where it led to the formulation of the heresy of the Ismailis, and the esoteric version of Islam, known as Sufism. When the love poetry of the Sufis, and perhaps the Ismaili doctrines of the Assassins, were introduced to Europe during the Crusades, they influenced the Age of Chivalry and ultimately the production of the Grail legends." The Templar Knights are a famous example of Crusaders influenced by Sufism.
But the Crusades were not wholly responsible for this introduction, of course. The Cathari was a Manichaean sect introduced earlier, as 'Before the Burning Times' relates. They were among those magian Christians (though some people do not define Manichaeans as Christians) who had fled from Persia to the Balkans, then to Germany. They settled eventually in the south of France, where most of them were burned alive. This also was the fate of the Templar Knights. The Celts offered refuge to the victims of persecution, if they could escape in time. Their own Druidic priests, now long converted to Christianity, had been magi themselves.
The northern magi who converted to Christianity en masse automatically ceased to be magi and destroyed their records. To the best of my knowledge Zoroastrian priests are no longer called magi, and I have never discovered why. Perhaps a clue lies in the title itself, 'bearers of the gift'. What gift did the magi bear? Whatever the meaning of their title, magi no longer have legitimacy, and outside Satanic circles their priestly function is a thing of the past."
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Post by nina2 on Dec 12, 2008 12:48:55 GMT -5
The Jewish view about astrology, predictions etc:
"To foresee the consequences of one's deeds is a "good way" of life, prescribed by the sages for all. They say, "Who is wise? He who foresees the results of his deeds."
On the other hand, Jewish law strictly forbids using the wisdom of Kabbalah to predict the future, by whatsoever form of esoteric logic or manipulation. It borders on the practice of magic.
Furthermore, many misconceptions exist about the connection between Kabbalah and astrology. The oldest Kabbalah text, Sefer Yetzirah, is the source for charting correspondences between the twelve signs of the zodiac, the twelve months of the year, the twelve tribes of Israel, the twelve permutations of God's Name, and so forth.
The Talmud teaches, however, that "Israel is above the influence and forecasts of the signs of the zodiac." Therefore the study of astrology with the aim of anticipating or predicting the future is totally futile for a Jew. The signs of the zodiac may only be seen to relate to natural inclinations or innate character traits, which may be changed, to the very opposite extremity, by the power of free choice.
It is important to stress that astrology is not a healthy interest for a Jew or a non-Jew. The essential article of faith common to all human beings is the belief in one God and no other. Although the study of astrology does not necessarily constitute a breach of that faith, it can lead to ascribing inordinate power and significance to the heavenly bodies that God set in the firmament--thereby creating fertile ground for consequent inappropriate expressions of worship.
Indeed, the term used in Talmudic sources to denote a pagan is akum, which is actually an abbreviation of the Hebrew words oved kochavim umazalot, meaning "a worshipper of stars and zodiacal signs."
About "Bible codes":
"Presently, the Torah codes are most often misrepresented and misused. They have a certain validity in that they show that everything in the Torah is Divinely inspired, and that there is Divine beauty, called tiferet, in the Torah. This is most revealed through codes which refer to eternal truths and not to words or names of people or events, which are taken to indicate the prescience of the Torah. This is relatively superficial information. Obviously, the Torah contains all the information. To use the codes just to prove that the Torah foresaw certain events is a misuse of the beauty that is contained in the codings. The method of deciphering these codes today is very simplified, and should be much more developed.
As to using the codes to prove the Divine origin of the Torah, anyone who has a deep appreciation of the Torah finds the attempt to prove the validity of the Torah slightly offensive. Probably, those books that you have seen are the superficial versions. It is unfortunate that people get the misimpression of what really lies in the hidden mathematical structures embodied in the Torah.
There are books that contain amazing and beautiful mathematical structures from the Torah. This is all for the sake of manifesting the inner beauty inherent in our Divine Torah.
There are indications of phenomena, which are in actuality Torah codes, which appear in classical Torah texts, even from the time of the early Rabbinical Sages. It is sufficient that the Sages use a particular system, such as revealing encoded words in the Torah by skipping letters, even once, in order to validate that system in general."
About Gematria: -
"In Hebrew, each letter possesses a numerical value. Gematria is the calculation of the numerical equivalence of letters, words, or phrases, and, on that basis, gaining, insight into interrelation of different concepts and exploring the interrelationship between words and ideas.
The assumption behind this technique is that numerical equivalence is not coincidental. Since the world was created through God's "speech," each letter represents a different creative force. Thus, the numerical equivalence of two words reveals an internal connection between the creative potentials of each one. "
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