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Post by keita on Dec 8, 2008 12:59:58 GMT -5
Detroit Churches Pray For A Bailout with SUVs at the Altar
by: David Townsend
With sport-utility vehicles at the altar and auto workers in the pews, one of Detroit's largest churches on Sunday offered up prayers for Congress to bail out the struggling auto industry.
"We have never seen as midnight an hour as we face this week," the Rev. Charles Ellis told several thousand congregants at a rousing service at Detroit's Greater Grace Temple. "This week, lives are hanging above an abyss of uncertainty as both houses of Congress decide whether to extend a helping hand."
Local car dealerships donated three hybrid SUVs to be displayed during the service, one from each of the Big Three. A Ford Escape, Chevy Tahoe from GM and a Chrysler Aspen were parked just in front of the choir and behind the pulpit.
Ellis said he and other Detroit ministers would pray and fast until Congress voted on a bailout for Detroit's embattled automakers. He urged his congregation to do the same.
Other Detroit-area religious leaders -- including Christian, Muslim and Jewish leaders convened by Cardinal Adam Maida -- have urged Congress to approve an auto aid package.
But the service dedicated to saving Motown's signature industry at Greater Grace Temple was the highest profile effort to mobilize support yet.
"Everybody can't live on Wall Street. Everybody can't live on Main Street. But all of us have lived on the side street, the working class," Ellis said. "I call it the working class because everything tells me there is no more middle class."
Key Democratic lawmakers and the Bush administration were locked in negotiations over the weekend aimed at offering at least $15 billion in short-term loans to keep General Motors Corp (GM.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Chrysler LLC from immediate bankruptcy.
Automakers and their political allies contend a collapse by the industry would cost up to 3 million jobs as suppliers, dealers and companies in related industries were hit in turn.
Representing the 150,000 unionized workers at GM, Chrysler and Ford Motor Co (F.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), UAW Vice President General Holiefield said the industry had made its case for emergency funding as strongly as it could.
"We have done all we can do in this union, so I'm going to turn it over to the Lord," Holiefield told the congregation.
Ellis said he started to organize the service last week after hearing from auto workers, retirees and their widows who were all fearful of even harder times.
At one point, Ellis summoned up hundreds of auto workers and retirees in the congregation to come forward toward the vehicles on the altar to be anointed with oil.
"It's all about hope. You can't dictate how people will think, how they will respond, how they will vote," Ellis said after the service. "But you can look to God. We believe he can change the minds and hearts of men and women in power, and that's what we tried to do today."
Michelle McDade, 50, who attended the service, said her late father had worked at GM for 30 years and her mother was now living on his pension.
"I pray in good times and in bad times, but I pray these days because it's something that directly affects our lives. "Politicians forgot autoworkers for ages. You can't just forget them. We're also part of the country."
Founded in 1927 when Detroit was an automotive boomtown, Greater Grace Temple is one the city's largest and most influential black churches.
The church was the site of the 2005 funeral for civil rights figure Rosa Parks.
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Post by Nikkol on Dec 8, 2008 14:19:38 GMT -5
I know that this is a serious issue....but Hold up...... they were able to literally DRIVE 3 SUV's into the church?  |
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Post by Rachel2 on Dec 8, 2008 17:15:59 GMT -5
I know that this is a serious issue....but Hold up...... they were able to literally DRIVE 3 SUV's into the church? Here are the church stats..... www.greatergrace.org/city.htmCHURCH CONSTRUCTION STATISTICS -The entire church and conference center sits on more than 10 acres -The entire complex is nearly 170,000 square feet [The first floor alone is 103,000 square feet] -More than 1.88 million pounds [940 tons] of steel were used in this construction project -Over 2,600 cubic yards of concrete were poured -2,900 gallons of paint -1,000,000 square feet of drywall [31,250 sheets] -1,900 light fixtures in the building -The building requires 450 tons of air conditioning for cooling -Two towers, rear of the church, made of concrete and stands 120 feet tall -350,000 commercial bricks used [this is equal to 1 Million standard bricks used on an average home] Main Sanctuary
-The Main Sanctuary seats nearly 4,000 worshippers and is more than 33,500 square feet
-The main stage 62 feet by 82 feet [The choir risers seat 150 choir members and are removable
-Two huge TV projection screens measure 15 feet by 11 feet [210" diagonal]
-115,000 watt sound system
-Full production theatrical lighting with special effects
-5.4 miles of audio, video, and speaker cable installed
-2nd Floor baptistery with pool, dressing rooms and prayer area Banquet and Conference Center -seats a maximum of 600 for dinner, almost 750 theater-style -Laptop computer hookups -Drop-down video projector with 9 feet by 12 feet large screen -Full commercial kitchen with state of the art equipment [Also, showers area for employees] Total space: 6900 square feet -Sliding Room dividers allow for sectioning off for different sized groups -2nd Floor conference rooms [3] with sliding room dividers My personal feelings about the auto industry bailout is....if they were making quality cars instead of the junk that you have to replace every 5-years, they wouldn't need a bailout. I was a loyal Ford customer. I have bought 2 brand new cars and a used car with less than 800 miles within the last 15 years. All American made. This time, I bought a Nissan.
Also, where does it end? If they get a bailout, I'm sure some other industry will be on the door step of Congress asking to be rescued as well.
Who's going to bailout the taxpayers?  |
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Post by krazeeboi on Dec 8, 2008 23:01:50 GMT -5
Greater Grace is a HUGE facility. Had the pleasure of visiting there a few years ago...their hospitality is AWESOME.
Part of me really does feel for the people of Detroit, and God knows that city can't sustain any more hits. But GM, Chrysler, and Ford put themselves in this mess and honestly, they are really reaping what they've sown from years past.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Dec 9, 2008 6:36:22 GMT -5
I know that this is a serious issue....but Hold up...... they were able to literally DRIVE 3 SUV's into the church? Here are the church stats..... www.greatergrace.org/city.htmCHURCH CONSTRUCTION STATISTICS -The entire church and conference center sits on more than 10 acres -The entire complex is nearly 170,000 square feet [The first floor alone is 103,000 square feet] -More than 1.88 million pounds [940 tons] of steel were used in this construction project -Over 2,600 cubic yards of concrete were poured -2,900 gallons of paint -1,000,000 square feet of drywall [31,250 sheets] -1,900 light fixtures in the building -The building requires 450 tons of air conditioning for cooling -Two towers, rear of the church, made of concrete and stands 120 feet tall -350,000 commercial bricks used [this is equal to 1 Million standard bricks used on an average home] Main Sanctuary
-The Main Sanctuary seats nearly 4,000 worshippers and is more than 33,500 square feet
-The main stage 62 feet by 82 feet [The choir risers seat 150 choir members and are removable
-Two huge TV projection screens measure 15 feet by 11 feet [210" diagonal]
-115,000 watt sound system
-Full production theatrical lighting with special effects
-5.4 miles of audio, video, and speaker cable installed
-2nd Floor baptistery with pool, dressing rooms and prayer area Banquet and Conference Center -seats a maximum of 600 for dinner, almost 750 theater-style -Laptop computer hookups -Drop-down video projector with 9 feet by 12 feet large screen -Full commercial kitchen with state of the art equipment [Also, showers area for employees] Total space: 6900 square feet -Sliding Room dividers allow for sectioning off for different sized groups -2nd Floor conference rooms [3] with sliding room dividers My personal feelings about the auto industry bailout is....if they were making quality cars instead of the junk that you have to replace every 5-years, they wouldn't need a bailout. I was a loyal Ford customer. I have bought 2 brand new cars and a used car with less than 800 miles within the last 15 years. All American made. This time, I bought a Nissan.
Also, where does it end? If they get a bailout, I'm sure some other industry will be on the door step of Congress asking to be rescued as well.
Who's going to bailout the taxpayers? lol, that description almost sound like my church!!  |
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Post by Rachel2 on Dec 9, 2008 11:44:36 GMT -5
Greater Grace is a HUGE facility. Had the pleasure of visiting there a few years ago...their hospitality is AWESOME. Part of me really does feel for the people of Detroit, and God knows that city can't sustain any more hits. But GM, Chrysler, and Ford put themselves in this mess and honestly, they are really reaping what they've sown from years past. I remember Bishop Ellis' father, Bishop David Ellis. He was a close friend of Bishop James Johnson of Bethesda Temple here in St. Louis. He visited often and had a great sense of humor. He was very warm and hospitable. I see the apple didn't fall far from the tree. |
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Post by Nikkol on Dec 9, 2008 15:04:38 GMT -5
This reminds me of the kid in school that messed around all year round. The teachers and other students and the parents told them to get their act together so that they can pass. The kid doesn't listen. Ends up getting an F in the class and then wants the teacher/parents to work with him to bail him out.
Granted it does affect a lot of ppl. But you can't really "bail" them out. Someone is going to have to foot the bill. Someone else may end up losing their job helping the auto companies who will STILL make cars that aren't beneficial to noone but themselves......
Unfortunately, bad decisions early can create worse situations later....
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Post by krazeeboi on Dec 9, 2008 20:29:54 GMT -5
Greater Grace is a HUGE facility. Had the pleasure of visiting there a few years ago...their hospitality is AWESOME. Part of me really does feel for the people of Detroit, and God knows that city can't sustain any more hits. But GM, Chrysler, and Ford put themselves in this mess and honestly, they are really reaping what they've sown from years past. I remember Bishop Ellis' father, Bishop David Ellis. He was a close friend of Bishop James Johnson of Bethesda Temple here in St. Louis. He visited often and had a great sense of humor. He was very warm and hospitable. I see the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Oh yes, Bishop David Ellis was a legend. I didn't even know him or GGT when he died, but I surely did hear about it; that news created some major ripples throughout Christendom. As far as Bishop James Johnson, he's a living legend. |
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Post by Rachel2 on Dec 10, 2008 13:41:21 GMT -5
I remember Bishop Ellis' father, Bishop David Ellis. He was a close friend of Bishop James Johnson of Bethesda Temple here in St. Louis. He visited often and had a great sense of humor. He was very warm and hospitable. I see the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Oh yes, Bishop David Ellis was a legend. I didn't even know him or GGT when he died, but I surely did hear about it; that news created some major ripples throughout Christendom. As far as Bishop James Johnson, he's a living legend. We were all very saddened by Bishop Ellis' passing and Bishop Johnson took it quite hard. Yes, Bishop James Johnson is a living legend and he will always be my Father in the Gospel. I got saved at Bethesda Temple during his second term as Presiding Bishop of the PAW. I was a member there for 12 years until the Lord moved me to another part of the vineyard to work. His knowledge and teaching of the Word along with his wisdom is priceless. He is one of the most gracious and hospitable men that I have met. I am blessed that God saw fit to put me under his ministry. He's in his 80s now and his body is breaking down, but his mind is as strong as a steel trap. He can still tell you the history of the PAW in detail including the names of key bishops, preachers, evangelists, churches, cities and dates. Sadly, leaders of their caliber have almost vanished from Christendom. But, what a legacy they are leaving for the rest of us! |
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Post by Nikkol on Dec 11, 2008 8:19:35 GMT -5
Sadly, leaders of their caliber have almost vanished from Christendom. But, what a legacy they are leaving for the rest of us! My husband was just talking about that. It's hard to find anyone like that anymore. All the ppl that my husband went to of that caliber have all pased on. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Dec 11, 2008 9:16:04 GMT -5
Sadly, leaders of their caliber have almost vanished from Christendom. But, what a legacy they are leaving for the rest of us! I feel you.. but I dont agree with this. There are a great many christians leaders of very high caliber in GOD's army. They might not be on the forefront or on the national scene. Some are in the trenches. Some are in the background but they are there. I Knigs 19 14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. 15 And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria: 16 And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room. 17 And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay. 18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him. 19 So he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen before him, and he with the twelfth: and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him. Oh GOD is well prepared.... |
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Post by Rachel2 on Dec 11, 2008 18:00:37 GMT -5
Sadly, leaders of their caliber have almost vanished from Christendom. But, what a legacy they are leaving for the rest of us! I feel you.. but I dont agree with this. There are a great many christians leaders of very high caliber in GOD's army. They might not be on the forefront or on the national scene. Some are in the trenches. Some are in the background but they are there. I Knigs 19 14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. 15 And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria: 16 And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room. 17 And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay. 18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him. 19 So he departed thence, and found Elisha the son of Shaphat, who was plowing with twelve yoke of oxen before him, and he with the twelfth: and Elijah passed by him, and cast his mantle upon him. Oh GOD is well prepared.... Well, Brother Giants The presidential election is over, our candidate won, and you are back correcting and disagreeing with me as usual. But, I must give you credit for the temporary truce when it counted.  I didn't say they had all vanished....I said they had almost vanished. There is a difference. I have the good sense to know that God has never had a shortage of anything, including good soliders! AND I am quite familiar with this passage of scripture which is why I would never say they have ALL vanished. |
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Post by Rachel2 on Dec 11, 2008 18:02:37 GMT -5
Sadly, leaders of their caliber have almost vanished from Christendom. But, what a legacy they are leaving for the rest of us! My husband was just talking about that. It's hard to find anyone like that anymore. All the ppl that my husband went to of that caliber have all pased on. Your husband is right. They are very hard to find these days. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Dec 12, 2008 9:09:28 GMT -5
Yes, they are indeed getting harder to find. We lost two other giants this year that some may not have heard of: Bishop Monroe Saunders, Sr. of Baltimore and Bishop Wilbert McKinley of NYC (Jackie McCullough's pastor).
Fewer and fewer pastors are left that are truly from that "old school" that had direct contact with the fathers of the Pentecostal movement.
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Post by Nikkol on Dec 12, 2008 9:37:30 GMT -5
Yes, they are indeed getting harder to find. We lost two other giants this year that some may not have heard of: Bishop Monroe Saunders, Sr. of Baltimore and Bishop Wilbert McKinley of NYC (Jackie McCullough's pastor). Fewer and fewer pastors are left that are truly from that "old school" that had direct contact with the fathers of the Pentecostal movement. So true.... though I be thinking my husband is sometimes in his 60's (shhhhh don't tell him I said that....lol) |
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