Revelation 12

[anointed]

In Revelation 12 does this woman represent Israel or the church? Does the man-child represent Jesus himself or his kingdom rule through the church? I ask because these are the two school of thoughts although at this point I think it's a representation of Israel and Jesus who came out of the Jewish nation. What are your thoughts?

[giantsdodie]

I was going to type a really long drawn out answer but I found this which says everything i was going to say

www.gotquestions.org/Revelation-chapter-12.html

Question: "What does Revelation chapter 12 mean?"

Answer: In Revelation chapter 12, the woman is described as "clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (Revelation 12:1). Note the similarity between this description and the description that Joseph gave of his father Jacob (Israel) and his mother and their children (Genesis 37:9-11). The stars refer to the twelve tribes of Israel. So the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.

Additional evidence is that in Revelation 12:2-5, the passage speaks of the woman being with child and giving birth. While it is true that Mary gave birth to Jesus, it is also true that Jesus, the son of David from the tribe of Judah, came from Israel. In a real sense, Israel gave birth—or brought forth—Christ Jesus. Further evidence for this is in 12:5 where the Scripture says that the woman "gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne." Clearly, this is describing Jesus. Jesus will one day establish His kingdom on earth (Revelation 20:4-6), and He will rule it. This verse also makes reference to Jesus' ascension to heaven 40 days after His resurrection (Acts 1:9-11), speaking of the son "being caught up to God and to His throne."

When it speaks of the woman fleeing into the wilderness for 1,260 days, it is referring to the future time called the tribulation period. Twelve hundred sixty days is 42 months of 30 days each. 42 months is 3 1/2 years. Halfway through the tribulation period, the beast will set an image of himself up in the temple that will be built in Jerusalem. This is the abomination that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14. When the beast does this, he breaks the peace pact he made with Israel, and the nation has to flee for safety (also see Matthew 24; Daniel 9:27). This is the picture of the woman fleeing into the wilderness.

Revelation 12:12-17 speaks of how the devil will make war against Israel, trying to destroy her (Satan knows his time is short, relatively speaking—see Revelation 20:1-3, 10). It also speaks of how God will protect Israel while in the wilderness. This wilderness place where Israel will flee is believed to be a place called Petra. Note Revelation 12:14 where it says that Israel will be protected from the devil for "a time, times, and half a time (a time = 1 year -- 3 1/2 years).

Revelation 12 can be tricky but I believe it doesnt apply to the church and the reason why I dont believe it refers to the church is because those that are the church are raptured in Revelation 4 and return with Jesus in Revelation 20. The church is the BRIDE of Christ and while there will be believers on the earth these are those that become believers AFTER the Bride has received his Bridegroom.

The Bride returns WITH Him at the second coming.

I have seen a lot of theories as to why the woman represents the church but it doesnt fit completely with everything I have believed and studied about end time events

( End time events is one of my favorite topics of study)

[anointed]

Thanks Giants,

I'm going to keep that link you provided handy. I believe it is Israel as well. I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track with this one. I just don't understand how some try to replace Israel with the Church with everything given prophetically in scripture. I think it's called replacement theology.

[giantsdodie]

Dec 16, 2008 16:30:16 GMT -5 anointed said:

Thanks Giants,

I'm going to keep that link you provided handy. I believe it is Israel as well. I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track with this one. I just don't understand how some try to replace Israel with the Church with everything given prophetically in scripture. I think it's called replacement theology.

I have found that many of those that see this woman as being the church also have an issue with "The Rapture" or more specifically the pre-tribulation rapture.

[krazeeboi]

^I think I'm having some trouble with it as well, to be honest with you.

I'm getting ready to start studying some other schools of thought, particularly postmillenialism, amillenialism, and partial preterism. One thing that I think I can say with some certainty right now is that much of what is written in Revelation actually had direct application to the church within the time period that the book itself was written.

[giantsdodie]

Dec 16, 2008 19:54:30 GMT -5 krazeeboi said:

^I think I'm having some trouble with it as well, to be honest with you.

I'm getting ready to start studying some other schools of thought, particularly postmillenialism, amillenialism, and partial preterism. One thing that I think I can say with some certainty right now is that much of what is written in Revelation actually had direct application to the church within the time period that the book itself was written.

I have no issue with the pre tribulation rapture theology because in all honesty its the only one I have found in my study to line up completely with scripture.

Always remember that scripture particilarly a prophetic book like Revelation can certainly address things in that time frame as well as things yet to come.

One thing I tell everyone to do particularly with Revelation is to ask the Lord to give them an understanding of the book.
(although that applies to the Word of God in general as well )

Good stuff here

www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/ttcol.html