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Post by nina2 on Jan 12, 2009 7:23:01 GMT -5
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
- What is your understanding of this scripture?
- Any personal experience of seeing the manifestation of what is said?
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Post by giantsdodie on Jan 12, 2009 10:11:45 GMT -5
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. My understanding is this. That JESUS has given us as the believers and HIS representative to operate in the natural the same what that GOD operates in the Spritual Realm. There are SIX keys mentioned in the Word of God.. We as the believers have three and JESUS the LORD holds three... We have been given. The Key of Knowledge (Luke 11 ) The Key of Binding The Key of Loosing Jesus has The Key of David The Key of Death The Key of Hell The three keys were given to US the believers so that we would have the KNOWLEDGE and the ABILITY to operate in the EARTH as JESUS operated when He walked the earth. Yes, however the key as with any prayer is " Am I praying the Will of God " Am I praying THY WILL be done. If we are praying the WILL of GOD then we should expect to see results of our prayer and of our action. |
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Post by nina2 on Jan 12, 2009 12:28:37 GMT -5
Thank you Giants for the answer. There are a few things that have been lingering (in me) regarding these issues, and the main one could sum it up in one word: power. We know that we have received power. But, how many of us can really claim that the power has manifested in our life, through us, the way it should? I think that it is so critical for us to not just "know" that we have received power, but to actually see it manifest, in us, and outside of us... Do you think that we might become so used to depend on someone else's anointing that we, somehow, have not exercised our "spiritual muscles" properly?? Because, it is for all of us, isn't it? (I would like you to talk more about the keys, if you have the time...) To me, "praying the will of God" - what we discern to be his will - and praying "THY WILL be done" - which is not always fully revealed as we pray on - are two different things, even though THY WILL be done superseeds all else. Also, when it comes to binding and loosing, how do we get the discernment to bind and loose what is supposed to be? Is there some that should be done individually, corporately, what determines that? I know I'm full of questions, sorry...  |
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Post by ybrown on Jan 12, 2009 13:27:46 GMT -5
Nina, I saw the manifestation of this today with something I worked on two months ago.
My simple answer is the Kingdom of Heaven is within. We can access it anytime. It's up to us because no one can do it for us. When I start thinking of heaven as being some faraway place, personally I become powerless. But when I remember that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand and it's in me, I'm a force to be reckoned with and nothing can stop the manifestation of what God has shown me.
Jesus said He did what He saw the Father do in Heaven. Jesus always looked within and just did it.
I think if you don't know yourself then its hard to know God and what is being done in heaven.
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Post by giantsdodie on Jan 12, 2009 13:59:25 GMT -5
Well thats individual. I have seen the power of GOD manifest im my life and I have seen it manifest in the lives of others and through myself and through others, The question really to a certain extent is your level of faith, your level of relationship, and the relative holiness of your vessel.
Well this is again to me a matter of relationship. We often feel more confident in someone ELSES ability to hear God , someone ELSE's ability to pray etc etc. We believe that their prayers are heard more than ours etc etc. I believe we do tend to lean on our leaders etc etc as the pipeline to GOD as if they are MORE anointed to hear GOD than we are.
There is no differnce between " praying the will of God " and praying " THY will be done " as God's will is not divided.
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Post by krazeeboi on Jan 12, 2009 21:38:49 GMT -5
As always, context is important. Matthew 18
15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." Seems to me that the context here is church discipline. The assembly, acting by the authority of the Spirit of Christ, "binds" or "looses" an offending brother. 1 Corinthians 5 is a parallel passage to this one. "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. 'Expel the wicked man from among you.'" (1 Cor. 5:12-13). |
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Post by nina2 on Jan 13, 2009 11:07:24 GMT -5
Ok...
In what we have come to call The Lord's Prayer, Jesus told us to pray:
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done,
On earth AS it is in heaven.
With Matthew 18:18 we have:
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
We are kings and high priests of a kingdom which is not "of this world". The kingdom of God is already perfect, in heaven.
At this point, my question would be:
- In order for this to be:
"Thy kingdom come (in this world), AS it is in heaven
thy will be done (in this world), AS it is in heaven"
- Then would not our "exercising" more of that:
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
- bring about what Jesus told us to pray for, once and for all ??
Is there something that "earth" (his people on earth, still here) needs to do in order for "heaven" to come down??
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Post by giantsdodie on Jan 13, 2009 11:59:38 GMT -5
Is there something that earth (his people on earth, still here) needs to do in order for heaven to come down?? Sure... Seek His will.. and DO IT... |
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Post by krazeeboi on Jan 13, 2009 21:35:05 GMT -5
^And I think it needs to be understood here that the "binding" and "loosing" is something that is done corporately by the Church. The context of the passage in question clearly relates to church discipline, but to take the overarching principle into consideration, it means that the Church, empowered and animated by the Spirit of Christ, exercises kingdom authority among kingdom citizens. This authority will one day extend towards and over the entire world when Christ sets up His millenial kingdom on earth.
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atruewomenofgod
Full Member
Create in me a clean heart, O God and renew a right spirit within me. Ps. 51
Posts: 157
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Post by atruewomenofgod on Jan 13, 2009 22:00:09 GMT -5
I see two meanings in this scripture. The first is, as you release your faith and believe whatever your heart desires it is giving to you accordally. Whatever I ask God for in Heaven it is granted for me on this earth. My faith looses what my heart desire, whether its spiritually, binding the enemy, healing etc. As I mention in the post of "LORD IF ITS THY WILL" Matt 18:18 says it all.
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Post by krazeeboi on Jan 13, 2009 22:50:42 GMT -5
I dug up an article that I'd read some time ago that I think sheds some light on the subject here, especially since binding and loosing are spoken within their context as corporate, as opposed to individual, functions of the Church. I'll just post the relevant excerpts: During the time of Jesus, the word ekklesia [translated "church" in the NT] was used almost without exception to refer to a political assembly that was regularly convened for the purpose of making decisions... Dr. Lothan Coenen, writing for The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, noted that ekklesia was “clearly characterized as a political phenomenon, repeated according to certain rules and within a certain framework. It was the assembly of full citizens, functionally rooted in the constitution of the democracy, an assembly in which fundamental political and judicial decisions were taken . . . the word ekklesia, throughout the Greek and Hellenistic areas, always retained its reference to the assembly of the polis.”
In light of all this, why did Jesus (in Mt 16:13-20; 18:15-20) choose such a politically “loaded” word as ekklesia to describe His people and their meetings? Perhaps Jesus intended His people, Christians, to be function together with the a purpose somehow parallel to that of the political government. Jesus designed that believers propose matters for discussion, decide things together, make joint decisions, and experience the consensus process...God’s people have a decision-making mandate. A church is fundamentally a body of Kingdom citizens who are authorized (and expected) to weigh issues, make decisions, and pass judgments.
There are many examples in the New Testament of God’s people making decisions as a body. That Jesus expected decision making from the ekklesia is seen in Matthew 16:13-20. After promising to build His ekklesia on the rock of Peter’s revealed confession, Jesus immediately spoke of the keys of the kingdom of heaven and of binding and loosing. Keys represent the ability to open and to close something, kingdom is a political term, and binding and loosing involves the authority to make decisions. Then, in Matthew 18:15-20, Jesus said that the ekklesia (18:17) is obligated to render a verdict regarding a brother’s alleged sin, and once again, binding and loosing authority is conferred upon the ekklesia. |
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Post by Nikkol on Jan 14, 2009 8:30:15 GMT -5
^And I think it needs to be understood here that the "binding" and "loosing" is something that is done corporately by the Church. The context of the passage in question clearly relates to church discipline, but to take the overarching principle into consideration, it means that the Church, empowered and animated by the Spirit of Christ, exercises kingdom authority among kingdom citizens. This authority will one day extend towards and over the entire world when Christ sets up His millenial kingdom on earth. And I believe that this is greatly how the "Catholic" church uses this scripture/teaching........ |
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Post by giantsdodie on Jan 14, 2009 9:30:39 GMT -5
^And I think it needs to be understood here that the "binding" and "loosing" is something that is done corporately by the Church. The context of the passage in question clearly relates to church discipline, but to take the overarching principle into consideration, it means that the Church, empowered and animated by the Spirit of Christ, exercises kingdom authority among kingdom citizens. This authority will one day extend towards and over the entire world when Christ sets up His millenial kingdom on earth. And I believe that this is greatly how the "Catholic" church uses this scripture/teaching........ I believe we also need to understand that this scripture also is applied here in Matthew 16 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. This is one scripture that the Catholic Church misinterprets. They believe that the church was built on Peter and that the Keys to the Kingdom were given to Peter but they were not. The ROCK that the church is built upon is the truth that JESUS is the CHRIST ( this is a play on word so to speak as Peters name means rock) And the Keys were given unto ALL the believers... |
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Post by krazeeboi on Jan 14, 2009 23:09:25 GMT -5
^And I think it needs to be understood here that the "binding" and "loosing" is something that is done corporately by the Church. The context of the passage in question clearly relates to church discipline, but to take the overarching principle into consideration, it means that the Church, empowered and animated by the Spirit of Christ, exercises kingdom authority among kingdom citizens. This authority will one day extend towards and over the entire world when Christ sets up His millenial kingdom on earth. And I believe that this is greatly how the "Catholic" church uses this scripture/teaching........ And they have a point. Everything that the Catholic church teaches is not wrong. One point they tend to stress that I think Protestants would do well to attend to is the concept of church as community instead of this unbiblical "I do my thing with God while you do your thing" ideal that has particularly permeated Pentecostal/charismatic circles. But that's another discussion for another day. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Jan 14, 2009 23:25:29 GMT -5
This is one scripture that the Catholic Church misinterprets. They believe that the church was built on Peter and that the Keys to the Kingdom were given to Peter but they were not. Actually, I agree that the "rock" is Peter (in the sense that he is representative of the apostles) and that he was given the keys to the kingdom. I don't see how the context affords any other explanation. However, what I do not accept is the Catholic teaching that has been extrapolated from this passage regarding apostolic succession, papal infallability, etc. Several scriptures affirm that the church was built upon the foundation of the apostles, and Peter is often considered the "chief apostle." Peter was given the keys to the kingdom in the sense that he was instrumental in preaching the Gospel to the three chief people groups--Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles--and having them received into the Church. |
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