ISIS

[vin]

Okay I usually steer as far away from these controversial subjects...but I'm sitting here watching Tyra and she has the guy on there who was the first transgender on her Top Model show. I don't know how many people watch Top Model...

So Isis who was born and raised as Darrell says he/she was born "physically male", but never felt like a male.

He/she is on Tyra today with his/her boyfriend who is about to propose. Even the boyfriend says that from the time he met Darrell he was outwardly male but everything inward was all female.

The doctor who did Isis's / Darrell's surgery is also transgender (which I knew as soon as I laid eyes on him/her).

So what do we as Christians need to know or believe about people who feel like they were born in the wrong body? Now before anyone answers let me add this....

I watched ..... okay he just proposed...

Okay I watched a show that talked about people who grow up feeling like they were born in the wrong body. What the show showed was that many babies are born with genitals that are clearly male or female. They showed that as babies develop from the beginning the genitals look the same and as they continue to develop they form either male or female. They had several children on the show whose genitals up until at least age 5 or 6 were still confusing and the parents actually chose what they wanted to raise...male or female, and then the surgery was done to for male or female genitals. BUT the problem with that was, if the parents chose to raise the child as male, he might grow up feeling female and vice versa. But how can parents decide or know.

Now this Isis doesn't have a story like the above but just says he/she always felt female inside.

So actually I'm posting this to learn. Really. It's getting more and more complicated. Because any more there is medical info that supports the feelings that people have.

If there is another thread and yawl would prefer to refer me to it, that's fine.

[kitty]

Hey Vin,
I know that there are a few people in the world who have that problem.... The onset of it is usually due to an hormone imbalance. That's what causes the problem in the first place. the hormones don't work properly during a woman's pregnancy and so the baby's genitals may not develop correctly. ( That's a short version)

The long version is that each case is usually very unique and hard to predict an outcome. Ususally because the surgeries are done very early as to prevent the child from futher harm or confusion. I think in the past they may not have known that individuals like that were need to have hormone therapy for the rest of their lives... I don't know what the standard treatments are now. But i do know that it starts with a chromosome test to see if a person is XX, XY, XYY, XXY or what other odd variation that can occur.....

These people should not at all be confused with the gay population.... I have no idea what God's will is for them....


Kitty

[nina2]

There was a thread, a while back:

What would be your advice?
« Thread Started on Aug 12, 2008, 9:11am »

The discussion covered a lot of information about this topic, or close to it and transgender in general.....

I agree with Kitty that we should not put in the same category persons who were born "hermaphrodite" and needed their gender to be "settled" through surgery. They can determine the actual gender of the person with tests (chromosomes) and then correct it and finalize it.

For gay persons who decide to have a sex gender, it is a different situation and approach...

What I am wondering, in the case that you described is:

- The person - Isis - is a transgender.

- Isis' boyfriend knew him/her before the surgery etc... and they had a relationship while Isis was still a man. So, that was a gay relationship.

- Now, after surgery, I assume that Isis is a woman. And, the boyfriend is still very much in the picture and serious about the relationship, and proposed.

So, does that make the boyfriend straight?

[vin]

Tyra asked the boyfriend since Isis used to be male, does he consider himself gay, bi, hetero. His response was that even though Isis was male when he met her, she was male outwardly but everything about her inwardly was female. From the time he/she opened his/her mouth it was all female so he never felt like he was with a male even though physically he was looking at one. So he does not consider himself gay or bi because he never felt like he was with a man.

They didn't have a gay relationship before. They were best friends. So as far as the interview yesterday goes, they still haven't been intimate yet. Waiting on Isis to dialate. I had gotten a phone call and missed the definition of that and I wasn't recording it. Anybody know what that is?

I think what got me a little bit curious is that I wondered if it's possible for others to have physical issues that aren't as noticible as others. When the doctor came into the room he/she told him that his pelvis and the other part, not uterus, but anyway....had good depth as if he was originally supposed to be a female. So I'm going oh my goodness what is this?

I know there's a difference between people who are just gay and don't feel like they are born in the wrong body. They love being men and they love men. They love being women and they love women. But then you have people who have all their lives felt trapped in the wrong body.

Thing that to me might be a bit "tricky" for us as believers is that the world puts them all in one box, gay, lesbian, bi, and transgender. So what we might try to minister to one group may not really apply the same to another. But because they've clumped themselves together as if they are all the same, it's almost like forcefeeding themselves to the world.

I've thought of the scripture that Jesus said that all manner of sin will/can be forgiven except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. So a transgender according to that scripture can be saved. But I think they would have to admit that they committed a sin though, right?

[true]

[quote author=vin

They didn't have a gay relationship before. They were best friends. So as far as the interview yesterday goes, they still haven't been intimate yet. Waiting on Isis to dialated. I had gotten a phone call and missed the definition of that and I wasn't recording it. Anybody know what that is?

Dilates= waiting for the hole /space there to stay open. waiting for his/her vagina to stay open and not close up. They use silicone to keep it open until it heals.




I've thought of the scripture that Jesus said that all manner of sin will/can be forgiven except blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. So a transgender according to that scripture can be saved. But I think they would have to admit that they committed a sin though, right?[/quote]

We all have to admit our sins. No matter our gender right?

[vin]

Yeah, but I was talking about they would have to admit that it was a sin for them to change genders, not just being a sinner, does that part matter?

this story just intruiqued me because I was sitting here thinking, man, Christians are being faced with things we haven't had to face before. Not that the gospel has changed, because we know it hasn't. But we now, I think, have to have a little more understanding to be wise in dealing with people and answering about our belief and faith. I think that's why so many of us get on certain shows and platforms and can't answer. Or sound confused.

[auneeqsol]

Somebody told me that you cant use a 1970's anionting on 2009 cases....LOL

That was kinda funny but the point was that even though God himself never changes, he never outlined methods in which to reach people for Christ, so we have to be creative and also discerning as to what to say, how to approach and how to receive these people.

In Jesus' day let's be honest the disciples didnt deal with stuff like this, and Im not diminishing any power that they operated in, Im just saying we have to really be sensitive to the spirit as well as to the needs of these people. We are dealing on a totally different realm.

Even in grandma nem days, that ole skool approach, I have to admit being raised that way myself, some things you want to hold on to, but some things the ole saints have to realize its not that we are compromising and "letting anything in the church" but some of the stuff we're facing they didnt have to face. Like this subject we are discussing now. Not too many ppl were coming up in church like that (gay/lesbian), or were even able to get an operation as such back then (given it wasnt available) so they didnt come face to face with situations like this.

They didnt have internet, cell phones, all kinds of technology, etc.. So sooo much has changed, and we do, in a sense need to keep up with the times.

[kitty]

Hey Guys,
Today in my pediatrics clinical I saw a infant with what was called "ambigous genitals" for the first time in my life!!!

The baby was "decided" to be a girl though some genetic testing but what was of most interest to me was this... The child was a premature birth... she was born at 25 weeks compared to a normal pregnancy being 36 weeks.... So I am wondering if the truth is that this individual just didn't have enough time to develop correctly while in the womb?

I will say that it was odd... the child seemed just as male to me as female. I think time and hormone levels will tell...

Kitty