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Post by kitty on Jul 26, 2009 12:14:43 GMT -5
Where is the $420 Billion in Offerings the Black Church has Received Since 1980?
LiveSteez research shows that Black churches, in aggregate, have collected more than $420 billion in tithes and donations since 1980. With a Senate investigation into...Where is the $420 Billion in Tithes and Offerings the Black Church has Received Since 1980?
By: LiveSteez Research and Reporting Team
LiveSteez research shows that Black churches, in aggregate, have collected more than $420 billion in tithes and donations since 1980. With a Senate investigation into the finances of several mega churches underway, the “Prosperity Movement” has been the target of mounting criticism from inside and outside the Black Church. Specifically, the affluent ministries of The Reverend Creflo Dollar, Bishop Eddie Long and others have drawn the attention – and ire – of some clergy and laypeople alike.
Researcher Henry E. Felder’s study of Blacks’ donation habits demonstrated per capita spending of $508 per year in 2009 dollars. Another source, Tyler Media Services, estimated that Black Church revenue approached $17 billion in 2006.
One church, the Reverend Dollar’s World Changers, reported $69 million in 2006 income, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
Mainstream politicians and Black community leaders are demanding a better accounting of the “return on investment” offered by churches to the communities that fund them. Meanwhile, legions of faithful churchgoers defend their pastors and accuse their detractors of applying a double standard that ignores the largesse of wealthy, white televangelists, while underplaying the economic development and social service functions provided by the Black Church.
“The church has gotten caught up in materialism and greed, a lifestyle. Many ministers today want to live like celebrities and they want to be treated like celebrities. In other words, instead of the church standing with the community, the church has become self-serving. It has strayed away from its mission” according to Dr.Love Henry Whelchel, professor of church history at The Interdenominational Theological Center in Atlanta.
Few people – not even the ongoing Congressional investigation by Senator Chuck Grassley accuse the mega church pastors of outright larceny, and congregants generally approve of their pastors’ luxurious lifestyles. However, in a blatant recent example, a father-son pastor team, 76-year-old Richard Cunningham of Moreno Valley and his son, 52-year-old Philip Cunningham of Laurinburg, N.C., pleaded guilty to felony grand theft and fraud charges. The younger Cunningham also pleaded guilty to forgery. Over five years, prosecutors say, the Cunninghams stole from Calvary Baptist Yorba Linda Church and School bank accounts and used the money to buy time shares in Hawaii and Palm Springs, golf club memberships and a Cadillac. Prosecutors say the men have paid $3.1 million in restitution to the church.
LiveSteez’s investigative series will take a forensic editorial approach to quantifying the return to Black America for the $350 billion in tax-favored donations it has given to the Black Church, examining the arguments on both sides of the pulpit. In this series we will seek answers and advisory to the following questions:
- How often and how much do church leaders take advantage of the faith of poor black people?
-We will investigate and indentify the churches they are showing a strong return on investment that goes beyond inspiration.
- What does the black community have to show for the $350 billion in tax free dollars?
- Expert analysis on what could potentially be done with such a huge amount of money and how it could improve the state of our communities.
- Why do some church leaders refuse to participate in the Grassley congressional Investigation, which requested the financial records of several mega-churches.
Thoughts anyone?
Kitty
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Post by anointedteacher on Jul 26, 2009 18:41:56 GMT -5
- How often and how much do church leaders take advantage of the faith of poor black people? NOT ALL BLACK PPL ARE NOT POOR & DUMB.... They are required according to the Word of God to pay Tithes and give offering. Most ppl give because they want to give and that is not being taken advantage of... There are guest ministers that come in from out of town, and pull ppl for food...still ppl have a choice and they are not brainwashed. . The churches that not struggling financially.... feel the homeless, have drug programs, an other out reach. Most can barely stay open... because most ppl don't pay their tithes and $5/week office is not going to do it. Many Pastors work outside the church or travel a lot... Do this includes all black communities throughout the USA in the pass 29 years? Do you know how many black communities in this country? There are dozen in Mami alone... so you speaking of ten of thousands of communities.... * 35% went into the administration and up keep of the ministry * 15% salaries * =50% of 350,000,000,000 = $175,000,000,000 divided by 29 years = 60,344,827,586.20 divided by 50,000 community = $1,206,896.55 estimated average per/year.... Think about how many churches in each community... and most don't bring in much money. It is really not a lot of money, which you think about... and it comes in from large churches - Expert analysis on what could potentially be done with such a huge amount of money and how it could improve the state of our communities. It is not his job... it is for IRS to investigate... I am with Dollar and Long... They have an independent Audit that goes through their book and audit their ministries.... Nothing the devil coming against the church, to hinder the Work of Christ.. They wondering why these to Black Ministers are so wealthy.... They are successful busnessmen as well as Pastors and they are blessed. |
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Post by stillfocused on Jul 27, 2009 20:56:40 GMT -5
I understand where both of you are coming from..we are supposed to live and abide by the Word of God. Yet, I myself and others have asked the same question..I was tithing and giving in offerings..yet, still I find my "scrambling to live day to day". Many people do travel and seek outrageous honoriams for speaking the gospel..that they have received for free. One should be give because they purpose in their heart to give..not because someone has required you to sow a "seed" into the anointing. How many really do give back into the community or to the ones in their congregations..that need a hand up. Imagine sowing your last $1,000.00 to someone because the "prophet" said..and they go out and buy 2 new cars, and you're walking. I have heard of alot people waiting on their return that was promised...because the prophet said. And with the economy the way it is right now..many families could use some of those funds right. I have seen Eddie Long give away cars..yet, I have yet to hear of others sowing back into the communities in which they live. I know that Creflo does, too.
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Post by anointedteacher on Jul 27, 2009 23:46:57 GMT -5
I understand where both of you are coming from..we are supposed to live and abide by the Word of God. Yet, I myself and others have asked the same question..I was tithing and giving in offerings..yet, still I find my "scrambling to live day to day". You pay tithes and give offering outof obedience, but many don't, only 25% actually continuously and faithfully pay tithes. Most onl give a small offering. Well... when Jesus sent out the disciples... He told not to take anything except te clothes on their back... Those that receive them, mean provide food, changing clothes, a place to stay & $ and accept the Word. Those who didn't shake to dust off your feet and keep on moving. They should receive honorariun, they shoul stop being so greedy and stop lying on God. True... one should pray and ask God what they should give and let that be it. Stop jumping in the 1000 dollar line for a word. Many ministry give out sholarships, food bank, soup kitchen, drug progam, homeless mnistry, etc... all located in the black community. I was at a church and they gave dozen of young ppl laptop computers. They gave out sholarships and supporting many socil programs. My church used to pay ppl rent, cor notes, Utilitis bills and put the homeless in a hotel till we found a shelter for tem. The average prophet and evangelists are not buying two cars, they are living by faith, praying that more doors will open so they can provide for their family. If someone give $1000... and God didn't tell them, they need to check their motive and learn from their mistake. Th Bible did tell us to believe The Prophet and you shall prosper. So has your friend JB has brought cars, pay ppl college tution, pay ppl mortgages and rents too... Many have gave back to the community... but money do no break the provety the spirit.... you can give and give and the money will disappear.. when there a proverty spirit. |
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Post by stillfocused on Jul 28, 2009 0:49:37 GMT -5
AT..thanks. Yet, please hear my heart on this matter. Many have sown and sown and sown..because they felt like the Lord has told them to give.,.only to receive nothing. The word of God says give and it shall be given back to you..pressed down and running together. How many have heard this one " the Lord loves a cheerful giver"..only to have given their last because they believed in the Prophet. It doesn't matter to me who gave what..it matters to the most to at this present time is this..how can you pimp and rob the people telling them how and what to sow; while you're wearing the latest fashions, buying new cars, and flying all over the country and you're not working anywhere? While having the nerve not to ask; but, demand people you an offering for a set amount..because of the fact you're not working..oops, I forgot you're barely making ends meet; but, you'd better not forgot my offering..it's happening all over our country.
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 28, 2009 8:14:50 GMT -5
I understand where both of you are coming from..we are supposed to live and abide by the Word of God. Yet, I myself and others have asked the same question..I was tithing and giving in offerings..yet, still I find my "scrambling to live day to day". Many people do travel and seek outrageous honoriams for speaking the gospel..that they have received for free. One should be give because they purpose in their heart to give..not because someone has required you to sow a "seed" into the anointing. How many really do give back into the community or to the ones in their congregations..that need a hand up. Imagine sowing your last $1,000.00 to someone because the "prophet" said..and they go out and buy 2 new cars, and you're walking. I have heard of alot people waiting on their return that was promised...because the prophet said. And with the economy the way it is right now..many families could use some of those funds right. I have seen Eddie Long give away cars..yet, I have yet to hear of others sowing back into the communities in which they live. I know that Creflo does, too. On the "other side", when ppl invite those who have high honorariums, the reason (usually) they are invited is because they can draw a big crowd and therefore raise a lot of money. For me, I wanted to invite a few ppl because of the message that they could give. The difference tho is that I wouldn't tell anyone. It would be moreso a service with a guest preacher and that's all they would know. But if for some reason they weren't able to publicize who they were getting, many churches wouldn't invite those preachers because the crowd may not be as big. Also, at some churches you go to, you are told you have to raise a certain amount of money and if you (the preacher) doesn't raise it, then you have to come out of pocket to raise the rest. There's a lot of "behind the scenes" stuff that goes on. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Jul 28, 2009 8:55:05 GMT -5
Id like to address several things here.
First off lets acknowledge that there are some churches that are crooked and steal from GOD and GOD's people.
Also lets acknowledge that everything has as a sign up and a shingle on its roof is NOT necessarily the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now lets address several things.
1) There are a great many churches that do a lot in their communties that you will never see and never hear about. I have been to and know of churches that have done tons of outreach, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, have FREE drug counselling programs, prision ministries, assist in helping people get GED's, have FREE workshops on how to get out of debt, FREE income tax preparation, house.. and I mean HOUSE homeless people and provide a place of safety and rest.
I have been to churches that pay folks rent, buy them food, provide MetroCards (transit fare cards) so they AND their children can get to work. I have seen churches give emergency relief to families that were out of work for MONTHS on end so they can make ends meet.
A lot of these things you are not going to see OPENLY. Its stuff that is done behind the scenes to minister to and help people both in the church and in the community. The church I grew up in built a community center for the children of the church and the community and has run Midnight basketball to keep kids off the street and things like Boy Scouts etc etc.
And this is repeated thousands of times across the US. We arent even mentioning a lot of the overseas things that churches do like sending money to help with schools and medicine etc etc..
For shame on the church for obeying the scripture
Matthew 6
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
THIS is what a lot of the world has issue with. The OPEN REWARD. They want an explanation of HOW the church is being blessed and operating in the way it does. But its not the churches responsibility to explain itself to THE WORLD.. sorry.. it aint..
NOW the church should be accountable to GOD and Its members.
Our church has a business meeting EVERY year where EVERY member ( MEMBER !!! ) gets an accounting record of what the church did with EVERY dollar it received. Every member gets a breadown of tithes and offerings that were given ( and believe me it aint never what it should be because MOST of the church doesnt tithe and give offerings consistently anyway )....
They see the rent.. the outreach ministries costs. The cost of all the event planning. The cost of gifts given to members ( not each members name because that is private ) etc etc.
501C3 chruches are required to send their info in every year. Why should Creflo Dollar and Eddie Long comply with something that is not LAW. They are doing what the LAW requires. What these senators have issue with is the amount of wealth these leaders have. Yet what they fail to realize is that many ministries have different arms.In the case of Creflo Dollar ( and someone correct me if I am wrong ) World Changers is teh CHURCH.. However Creflo Dollar Ministries is the arm through which his book and tape ministry operates and those things are sold at a profit. If that is set up like most ministries I know then that is run like a business and pays taxes separate from the 501C3 which is World Changers.
And let me say this as well.
I dont look for he return on my tithe and offerings to come from the church. I dont give my tithe and offering to the church. I give it TO GOD. Thats how I see it because the scripture tells me that the tithe is HOLY as unto the LORD.
I too have struggled from day to day, week to week and often moment to moment. I have been out of work for large stretches at a time, often times wondering why if I serve the GOD of more than enough how come I dont have enough.
I recently turned down a job that was more that TWICE what I am earning now in a field that I am in where I have been gorssly underpaid. Why did I turn it down.. because it was NOT God for me... and it hurt a little to turn it down.. ( that was a year ago and I am still in the same position I was in before )
Then last week the Lord spoke to me and said.. You passed the test. You refused to compromise what you knew was not from ME. You didnt sell out.. You passed the test... He said begin to go look for a new job. You are released for this one. And the next one ask for what YOU KNOW you are worth. He literally said.. Ask for " The Pretty Penny ".
SOME of what we are going through is a TEST so that we can then move onto greater things in GOD and move onto the greater blessings IN HIM.
Hope that encourages someone...
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Post by krazeeboi on Jul 28, 2009 18:55:49 GMT -5
My biggest thing is this: you simply cannot lump all Black churches into the same pot. Not going to work.
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Post by anointedteacher on Jul 28, 2009 18:56:23 GMT -5
AT..thanks. Yet, please hear my heart on this matter. Many have sown and sown and sown..because they felt like the Lord has told them to give.,.only to receive nothing. The word of God says give and it shall be given back to you..pressed down and running together. How many have heard this one " the Lord loves a cheerful giver"..only to have given their last because they believed in the Prophet. It doesn't matter to me who gave what..it matters to the most to at this present time is this..how can you pimp and rob the people telling them how and what to sow; while you're wearing the latest fashions, buying new cars, and flying all over the country and you're not working anywhere? While having the nerve not to ask; but, demand people you an offering for a set amount..because of the fact you're not working..oops, I forgot you're barely making ends meet; but, you'd better not forgot my offering..it's happening all over our country. Please define work... I thought being in full-time ministry was one of the hardest job a person can have... What if their latest fashion and new cars are the result of what they sow and their obedience to God? Is it a sin to be financially and materially blessed? Of course there are some crooks and pimps, but not all. Why you always worry about the blessing of the man and woman of God? |
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Post by krazeeboi on Jul 28, 2009 19:02:38 GMT -5
I'll be honest with y'all about one thing: I don't want to hear another preacher talking about how to get money. I'd much rather hear it from someone who had an idea and capitalized off it in a major way than someone who just gets to rake all the dollars in every week. I'm not saying that a pastor shouldn't be supported by the flock (that's biblical), but that's not a blueprint on how to make a lot of money. Even when you talk about the endeavors of a lot of pastors outside of the church, it's still primarily based on church and church stuff. For instance, you think Joel Osteen would have sold as many books if he didn't pastor one of the largest churches in the country?
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Post by anointedteacher on Jul 28, 2009 20:50:52 GMT -5
I'll be honest with y'all about one thing: I don't want to hear another preacher talking about how to get money. I'd much rather hear it from someone who had an idea and capitalized off it in a major way than someone who just gets to rake all the dollars in every week. I'm not saying that a pastor shouldn't be supported by the flock (that's biblical), but that's not a blueprint on how to make a lot of money. Even when you talk about the endeavors of a lot of pastors outside of the church, it's still primarily based on church and church stuff. For instance, you think Joel Osteen would have sold as many books if he didn't pastor one of the largest churches in the country? Do you think President Obama would have sold so many book if he didn't run for President? I thought he was blessed becuase he left Wall Street and choose to be a community organizer making only $10,000.00 to work with the disadvantage, he is an excellece writer. I know he not a preacher... I thought T.D. Jakes books sold because he is full of wisdom and a great writer. R U saying he should sell tapes and book? He and many other are in demand..... |
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Post by stillfocused on Jul 29, 2009 1:10:26 GMT -5
Giants..I agree with you last post. AT..you asked why I do I have a problem with I have a blessing with the man and woman of God? I don't have a problem with them being blessed..what I do not like is when they get their "blessing" at the expense of others going without who may well need it more than they do. Many are walking around here talking about the Lord blessed them..but, they themselves don't bless others. I have just recently heard of people being told to bring a certain to their midweek service and nothing less. What happened to giving what God has told you to give ?
What I mean by "not having a job"? I mean you don't work for anyone except yourself. You travel the worldwide....and for a means to provide for living standards...ministry and preaching is your job and if you don't get paid what you think you're worth ..you get mad. I agree that ministry is work and very time consuming..but, requesting huge amounts of money to preach..and having your room and plane ticket paid is a bit much. To me you're no longer doing it because you love the people; but, because you love the money more. You're no longer a shepherd; you have become a hireling.
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Post by Nikkol on Jul 29, 2009 8:37:59 GMT -5
Giants..I agree with you last post. AT..you asked why I do I have a problem with I have a blessing with the man and woman of God? I don't have a problem with them being blessed..what I do not like is when they get their "blessing" at the expense of others going without who may well need it more than they do. Many are walking around here talking about the Lord blessed them..but, they themselves don't bless others. I have just recently heard of people being told to bring a certain to their midweek service and nothing less. What happened to giving what God has told you to give ? What I mean by "not having a job"? I mean you don't work for anyone except yourself. You travel the worldwide....and for a means to provide for living standards...ministry and preaching is your job and if you don't get paid what you think you're worth ..you get mad. I agree that ministry is work and very time consuming..but, requesting huge amounts of money to preach..and having your room and plane ticket paid is a bit much. To me you're no longer doing it because you love the people; but, because you love the money more. You're no longer a shepherd; you have become a hireling. Question: Why are they requesting those specific ppl? There is NOONE in a 20 or so mile radius that you can get instead? (esp. if you live in a city like Philly, NYC, etc) To be honest, )not to be mistaken as me being conceited etc) if I were to be requested to preach somewhere (esp. that required me to take a plane), I'd expect that they would be paying for my room and plane ticket. That's the same as if we invite anyone. I remember that one person who we wanted to invite we told him that we wanted to make sure that we could pay for his way up here as well as his room. And not only for him but for his family and maybe his armorbearer, etc. For me, that just seems right. Esp. because you're (general) taking them from their "post" or from the work he/she is going in their local assembly to come to your (general) local assembly.... I just would assume that that would be a given. Also, the fact that these churches are still willing to invite these ppl even with large honorariums should be an indicator that giving that much (based on the ppl it will attract) won't hurt them because honestly, they'll probably make that or more back. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Jul 29, 2009 8:53:13 GMT -5
Giants..I agree with you last post. AT..you asked why I do I have a problem with I have a blessing with the man and woman of God? I don't have a problem with them being blessed..what I do not like is when they get their "blessing" at the expense of others going without who may well need it more than they do. Many are walking around here talking about the Lord blessed them..but, they themselves don't bless others. I have just recently heard of people being told to bring a certain to their midweek service and nothing less. What happened to giving what God has told you to give ? What I mean by "not having a job"? I mean you don't work for anyone except yourself. You travel the worldwide....and for a means to provide for living standards...ministry and preaching is your job and if you don't get paid what you think you're worth ..you get mad. I agree that ministry is work and very time consuming..but, requesting huge amounts of money to preach..and having your room and plane ticket paid is a bit much. To me you're no longer doing it because you love the people; but, because you love the money more. You're no longer a shepherd; you have become a hireling. PRE DISCLAIMER TO MY POST... (I believe in tithing, I believe its biblical and I believe its for today so dont even bother starting that argument with me you will never ever ever ever convince me otherwise) Look there is no doubt that this goes wrong and I have been in churches that have done it. Unfortunately everyone has this mindset that all the people are tithing and giving and being taken advantage of, however the reality is that most of the people ARENT giving and its the few that do give consistently that support MUCH of the goings on in the church. Most people contrary to popular thought DO NOT tithe. Also I know men of God that have good jobs and some that own their own businesses so everything they have is NOT from the people. And as far as the people.. This has always been my stand. If I am doing what the LORD has instructed me to do with HIS MONEY than I am simply a steward over, if that man or woman of GOD missappropriates GOD's money then THATS ON THEM.. It dont stop GOD from blessing me and taking care of me because I did what HE SAID. and I am gonna say this and ya might not like it but black folks is some of the stupidest folks I know when it comes to how to handle finances. I know folks that have been counselled, teach them how to budget. show them exactly where their money is being wasted but they just GOTTA have that 300.00 cell phone for them and all their kids  !!!!! Then a lot of times we wanna get mad at the preacher cause thy are blessed but we dont know HOW they got blessed. We just assume it was off the backs of the people. And again that does happen I am not denying that cause I have been to churches that have had literally 4-5 hour offering services.. My hope is that churches start teaching people HOW to propser not just that they CAN prosper. In most cases GOD is not going to rain gold from the sky (HE could.. I just aint seen it yet). However GOD does give ideas, HE does give talents, HE does give skills, HE does give abilities, HE does give plans, HE does give wisdom, HE does give witty inventions and these things can be used to prosper. People need to be taught HOW to see the gift that GOD has given them that will make room for them and bring them before great men. ONE of my gifts is the ability to forge relationships. I was sitting down last night with a client at dinner who has become more of an acquaitence. One of his friends joined us for dinner. Long story short turns out his friend owns several building in the NYC area and many in Harlem where I grew up. In fact he own one right up the block from where I grew up. I asked him was he in real estate. He said yes I own over 250 apartments in the Harlem area... we were talking about allthe changes uptown in the last 20 years etc etc we hit it off well. Guess what I started going to school for last year... Real Estate... guess what area the Lord told me to concentrate on... Harlem..... NOW I just have to ask if the Lord wants me involved with this person.... But the scripture says a mans gift maketh room for him and brings him before great men... I was sitting down at dinner with one of the top plastic surgeons in all of nyc and a top real estate developer. If anything I know that when I leave where I work now to start my own business these two men will be some of my first clients.. You need to KNOW your gifts.. and you need to KNOW how GOD will use them to prosper the kINGDOM and then YOU... |
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Post by stillfocused on Jul 29, 2009 17:32:32 GMT -5
Giants..you're right. I do believe in tithing as well. There a many Pastors out there who do work and will not become a burden on the people. You hit on something in regards to doing a budget. I do budget..and when I got serioius and started cutting out some of the unnecessary things that I did not need...all heck broke in the area of my fiances. and your comment on black people not knowing how to handle their money is true. I have learned what some may call delayed gratification and I find out when I do wait..someone will give me the item or I will g et it at a real good price. I am not assuming that all preachers become blessed at the hands of the people..yet, some do. I was in a convenience store a few weeks ago and there was a song on the radio where the person singing the song was singing " I wanna be a baptist preacher; because the pay is good...I had to laugh. I don't know the man was.
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!!!!!