Prosperity gospel and housing crisis among Blacks

[giantsdodie]

Negroes need to lear how to manage their money...

and Church Negroes are some of the WORST at it and YET expect GOD to bless us with money even while being POOR stewards..

[krazeeboi]

^Pretty much. Then we wouldn't have to always be preaching about money in the Black church.

[anointedteacher]

Oct 10, 2009 18:49:43 GMT -5 kitty said:

Stillfocused....

You are so right! Your testimony reminds me of a friend of mine...
About 2 years ago a good friend who was making good money over 90K and living in a house that was paid for got in over her head the same way....

She and her mother believed that God wanted more for them and and fell in love with the idea that they should live in a million dollar home. In fact they fell in love with a particular house that was a 5-6 level home... Yes that's right the house has about 5 or 6 floors. It also includes a indoor heated swiming pool.

The owner of the home made it very possible for them to buy it... In fact the guy brought their current home which was paid for in order to help them qualify for the loan that they were seeking. In all of this.... All she and her mother needed was for some visiting preacher somewhere to state that God had big plans for them... a house .... to decide that they had confirmation for their desires.... Never mind that the most common prophesies out there are for a car, a job, a house, or a spouse... Heck some people with prophey that too you regardless of your status. For example... I had some declare that I was looking for a job in a point in time when I was not.... But anyways...

This friend then decided that she had the green light from God... She and her mother brought the house with apparently a mortage that they could not afford... They took the fact that the owner was looking to sale and brought their home as a sign that this was from God. The owner even let them have furniture that they liked so again... As far as they were concerned... This was God making a way...

Less then a year after they moved into the home this very same friend called me several times in an apparent "shake down" for money towards a furneral. Her brother died and she wanted 2K. I was really surprised guys! I mean this was a person that was making close to if not 100k! So I questioned her about why she didn't have the money she needed... She stated that she was "in over her head" with bills. In order to pay them she was "working around the clock" to make ends meet.

A different friend loaned her the 2K and after a year and half she still had not paid this person back....

It's is apparent to me that maybe this wasn't God's plan... After all she couldn't afford her desires I believe that if it was God's will then He would have provided a way to maintain not just get the house....


Kitty

Kitty... This was not the prophet fault... He didn't tell them to buy that house. She was more by greed... She could have given her old house away or rent it out or even sell it and purchase something that will meet her budget... And it seem like she was already in the process of purchasing that house, before the prophet spoken to her... she dug her own hole...

Some time prophet prophesy future situation... so the prophet may not have been off, when he prophesy about job hunting.

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

Oct 11, 2009 21:36:04 GMT -5 anointedteacher said:

Kitty... This was not the prophet fault... He didn't tell them to buy that house. She was more by greed... She could have given her old house away or rent it out or even sell it and purchase something that will meet her budget... And it seem like she was already in the process of purchasing that house, before the prophet spoken to her... she dug her own hole...

Some time prophet prophesy future situation... so the prophet may not have been off, when he prophesy about job hunting.

yeah, that's right, cause the "prophet/prophetess" is NEVER wrong, NEVER off, and NEVER EVER at fault. EVER!!!!!!!

[giantsdodie]

Oct 12, 2009 7:28:07 GMT -5 Poetricia (G.A.P.) said:

Oct 11, 2009 21:36:04 GMT -5 anointedteacher said:

Kitty... This was not the prophet fault... He didn't tell them to buy that house. She was more by greed... She could have given her old house away or rent it out or even sell it and purchase something that will meet her budget... And it seem like she was already in the process of purchasing that house, before the prophet spoken to her... she dug her own hole...

Some time prophet prophesy future situation... so the prophet may not have been off, when he prophesy about job hunting.

yeah, that's right, cause the "prophet/prophetess" is NEVER wrong, NEVER off, and NEVER EVER at fault. EVER!!!!!!!

I say this all the time.. We know in part and we PROPHESY in part.. Each person even after receiving prophecy needs to go BACK to the LORD to get the whole...

In this case people got a word about a house.. ASSUMED it was the house they were looking at and ran with it....

The fault there IMO lies in the hearing...

[anointedteacher]

Oct 12, 2009 7:28:07 GMT -5 Poetricia (G.A.P.) said:

Oct 11, 2009 21:36:04 GMT -5 anointedteacher said:

Kitty... This was not the prophet fault... He didn't tell them to buy that house. She was more by greed... She could have given her old house away or rent it out or even sell it and purchase something that will meet her budget... And it seem like she was already in the process of purchasing that house, before the prophet spoken to her... she dug her own hole...

Some time prophet prophesy future situation... so the prophet may not have been off, when he prophesy about job hunting.

yeah, that's right, cause the "prophet/prophetess" is NEVER wrong, NEVER off, and NEVER EVER at fault. EVER!!!!!!!

In this case.... It was the lady fault, not the prophet.... The people of God need to take responsibility on how they receive a prophecy and stop blaming everything on the prophet... as Giant said she should've went that to God.

[krazeeboi]

Come on guys. Responsiblity is a two-way street. Too many people of God have been led astray by generic prophecies, and that mess has got to stop. Putting ALL of the responsibility on the people gives these jackleg prophets a license to say whatever they want to say in the name of God. God is tired of people saying He said stuff He never said! Prophets, or those who prophesy, are held to a higher standard and will be judged with a stricter judgment, so they have a higher responsibility not to mislead people, intentionally or unintentionally.

[giantsdodie]

Oct 12, 2009 14:49:07 GMT -5 krazeeboi said:

Come on guys. Responsiblity is a two-way street. Too many people of God have been led astray by generic prophecies, and that mess has got to stop. Putting ALL of the responsibility on the people gives these jackleg prophets a license to say whatever they want to say in the name of God. God is tired of people saying He said stuff He never said! Prophets, or those who prophesy, are held to a higher standard and will be judged with a stricter judgment, so they have a higher responsibility not to mislead people, intentionally or unintentionally.

krazee here is the problem speaking as someone who is prophetic and surrounded by prophetic people.

There is no doubt that there are a lot of false prophets, fallen prophets and people who arent called to be prophets, speaking things that GOD has not said. That cannot be argued.

However I have seen people take things that were said prophetically that were accurate and true WAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of context and NEVER took that Word back to the Lord.

There is a balance and BOTH the speaker and the hearer must ba accountable.

Lets take this case.. These people desired a new home. They desired a million dollar home which was obviously far beyond their means. They received a word that there was a new house for them....

NOW here is the problem. That word maybe have beem 100% accruate. But was it THAT SPECIFIC HOUSE ?? They ASSUMED it was that home... thats the problem... Did anyone check with the Lord at all ??

Each believer has a responsibility to KNOW the voice of the Lord for THEMSELVES..

[krazeeboi]

Oct 12, 2009 16:30:31 GMT -5 giantsdodie said:

There is a balance and BOTH the speaker and the hearer must ba accountable.

That's all I wanted to hear. Without knowing all of the details, it's hard to say exactly who may have erred in this particular case. So to put ALL of the responsibility on one person or the other isn't exactly fair.

[Nikkol]

My rule of thumb is that if anyone "prophecies" to me, it should confirm something that God has already spoken to me...even if it's something that I was unclear on if it was him, etc. Keeping that as a rule of thumb, if someone comes up and just says something, it won't effect me. Besides, I'd be embarrassed knowing that God had to speak something through someone for me instead of telling me himself. I think that if ppl were taught that, there would be less "fly by night prophets"

[giantsdodie]

Oct 13, 2009 6:52:48 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

My rule of thumb is that if anyone "prophecies" to me, it should confirm something that God has already spoken to me...even if it's something that I was unclear on if it was him, etc. Keeping that as a rule of thumb, if someone comes up and just says something, it won't effect me. Besides, I'd be embarrassed knowing that God had to speak something through someone for me instead of telling me himself. I think that if ppl were taught that, there would be less "fly by night prophets"

I would like to speak on what Nikkol has said. I understand what our sister is saying but I believe that if not understood it can create a problem which I have seen happen many times.

When we get into a place where our expectation is that prophecy should only speak to use something GOD has only said we can get ourselves into problematic situation because of a fear of being misled or deceived and we should never operate in fear.

First of this will in no way , shape or forn lessen " fly by night " prophecy. This is the age where the spirit of seduction and the spirit of error are loose. False prophecy will increase not decrease. As one of my friends says the reason there are so many scratching tongues ( false words ) is because there are SO MANY itching ears. This will not descrease saints.. sorry to be the bubble burster...

Secondly its a self defense mechanism that is not founded on the Word of GOD. Its a mechanism WE create to try to defend ourselves from being deceived for misled. The problem here is that we already have things that the SPIRIT of GOD has given us.

We have the Word of GOD. IF it doesnt line up with SCRIPTURE dismiss it.

We have the SPIRIT of GOD living on the inside of us. IF it doesnt bear immediate witness shelve it until GOD speaks on it.

We have the gift of discernment, which contrary to popular belief is not the ability to " read " folks, its the ability to discern WHICH spirit is in operation.

We have the counsel of GOD. We have the counsel of our pastors and leaders.

We have the safeguard of confirmation, in the Word it tells us that by TWO OR THREE let a thing be esbalished. I always expect GOD To confirm HIS WORD by two or three. And HE has NEVER failed to do so.

The problem with this is when we do this we can become guilty of putting GOD in a box. The Word of GOD and GOD Himself has never said that prophesy will ONLY be confirmation or should always BE confirmation.

God can and WILL declare a NEW THING to us.. something we have never heard before that is brand new.

Amos 3:7; “Surely THE LORD GOD will do nothing, but HE revealeth HIS secret unto HIS servants the Prophets.”

Isaiah 42:9; “Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”

However what I believe is correct is this... and I think this is where Nikkol is...

Prophecy must first be confirmational, it should further expound or reiterate what God has already said to us out of HIS Written WORD and by HIS SPIRIT. Can GOD speak something new, something we have never heard or known before, by Prophecy? Most certainly. However, it must be based on and in agreement with The Written WORD, we must have the Witness of THE SPIRIT, it must be confirmed by THE FATHER HIMSELF in Prayer, and confirmed out of the mouths of two or three witnesses (II Corinthians 13:1). People may not always have an immediate witness because it is new or because they are in the way, that’s why the other three ways are provided by GOD. If GOD said it once, HE will say it again. THE LORD has set it up this way for the confidence and safety of HIS people.

I believe that is the correct balance and in the life of the more mature saint who has developed a relationship with GOD ( and I mean where you talk to GOD and GOD talks back) prophecy more often than not will be confirmation. HOWEVER we should should stilll understand and realize that GOD can speak a NEW THING if HE so desires.

One thing we fail to realize is that GOD Isnt just speaking into the life of the believer he is also growing and maturing the prophet as well. It can very very challenging as a prophet of GOD to speak a thing into a persons life. Especially if it sounds strange or weird. Many times GOD will use that prophet to speak a NEW thing to build THEIR faith in GOD as well. ( That point is often lost )

The problem in all honesty isnt with the prophecy to a degree. Let me expound on that because I am ot excuse those that ignorantly mishandle or those that purposefully misuse the Word of GOD. The greatest issue is this. GOD spoke this to me a few years ago.

He said there are three things wrong with my people

ONE they dont know Their GOD

TWO they dont know THE WORD

THREE by and large they do NOT have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

This is why off words can deceive so many. They DONT know GOD so they cant tell if its GOD speaking or not. They dont know the WORD so they cannot confirm what is spoken by the WORD of GOD. And because they dont have the baptism of the Holy Spirit that do not operate in the POWER that would help them discern.

Lets take that house example again.

Those people made several mistakes..

1) i have to question whether they took their initial desire for a new house to GOD

2) Did they take the request for this million dollar home before GOD

3) When they heard this word about a home did they take it BACK to GOD in prayer.. no.. the assumed that GOD was talking about the house they were looking at....

4) Did they get TWO OR THREE witnesses.. nope.. they ran with ONE...

5) did they seek spiritual counsel from more mature saints, pastors or leaders

Several misteps along the way...

Ive had folks prophesy new stuff I never heard in my life. There was a man of GOD who said that GOD had more than three businesses in me. That was many years ago. RIght now I have business plans for at least 5 businesses.

I have had a LOT of confirmations about things.

And I have had a lot of folks say a lot of stuff that was flat out off. I remember being in this prayer circle ( that I really didnt want to be in anyway because I knew there was some flakiness)

Two folks began to speak something over my life which was way off so I just cast that mess aside ( they were speaking the heart of someone ELSE for me not GOD;s heart for me )... then we prayed a little while more and then ONE person ( and this was the quietest most unassuming one ) said one thing...

She was Asain so she didnt speak English all that well..

she said.. you like to die..

I listened ( because I could hear GOD saying something )

she said again.. you like to die...

mmm hmmmmm

she said.. whenever GOD asks you to die.. you have no problem dying.. you like to die...

In my spirit I said.. OK at least ONE of these people (out of 8) can hear GOD...

Its not so much about the defense mechanisms as it is about LEARNING TO HEAR GOD FOR YOURSELF...

I believe if we learned to hear GOD for OURSELVES then we would be less worried about and less affected by false words.. even when they are on the rise...

But herein likes the problem. Learning to hear GOD takes TIME..

TIME in the WORD
TIME in PRAYER
TIME in STUDY

And the reality is people dont want to invest the TIME. Many people wokld just rather go to someone they believe hears GOD better than them FOR them... SO instead of ALL The sheep KNOWING ( having intimate knowledge ) HIS voice..

We have a few sheep who hear..

This issue with prophecy is serious and it has had a serious affect..

I know ministries right now who are CALLED by GOD to be prophetic ministries who WILL NOT operate in the prophetic because they are SCARED to mislead people. They teach.. they preach.. but they wont prophesy even when the WORD is literally HANGING in the atmosphere...

I know churches who wont move into prophecy because they dont want to become one of those places where people come to get "A WORD"

And I know churches that have gone off into left field that started out as powerful prohetic ministries who are now under the control of the spirit of seduction and the spirit of error because they left their first love.

Its a shame really...

KNOW GOD.. KNOW HIS WORD.. RECEIVE THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

Learn the five basics... and DO them

PRAY
PRAISE
WORSHIP
STUDY
FAST

You wont have to worry about false words.... Your spirit will recognize what is of GOD and what isnt...

[anointedteacher]

Many time people don't write or record the prophecy... When a word is given we at time miss and hit (not realing hearing what bein say) or take it out context.

I remember a woman was told that the prophetic anointing rest upon her.... She out thinking that the Prophet say she call to be prophet... he didn't say that...

Yes there are prophecies that are off... and responsibilities go two ways... but the ppl of God is left with the ball...

These pastors needs stop bring these money grabbing false prophets into their churches... knowing that the man or woman is out to rip ppl off.... Those who get ppl to pay for prophecis... So some of the responsibilities are on the leader of that House too.

[kitty]

Hey Guys,
I don't know what to say in regards to my friend who brought the million dollar home except for that sometimes to learn a lesson we have to go through some things.... But for some claraification and discussion let me add some more details to this situation...

One my friend has been saved for many, many years. She does have the Holy Ghost and speaks in tongues. This specific house may have been more of her desire than to live in a million dollar home althought she did express that....

This house in particular was one of her and her mother's desire. Apparently they wanted to buy this house many years prior. I would say something like almost 10 to 15 years prior but were unable to do so at that time because the clearly could not afford it. They were so in love with the house's design that at one point they decided that if they couldn't buy that particular house that they would one day have one bulit like it. In fact they spent over 1K in getting the floor plans and designs in order to have a similar house made one day.

For many years they put this house out of their minds and went on with life. The home in which they were living was very nice and had plenty of space for 2 people. In fact my friend states that she felt that God was urging her to move out of their home when she started looking again. In fact her words were that, "God woke me up in the middle of the night and told me to start looking. I got online and starting looking for homes and then amazingly I saw that the house me and my mother always wanted was up for sale!"

Now people.... How many of us have been in this position??? How many of us wouldn't have thought this wasn't God?

Then everything little thing that happened afterwards seemed like a "Confirmation" rather than a "Coinsidence" sp? From the word from a preacher, the fact that they guy brought their home in the process so she could get the loan, they fact that he gave her furniture, so many other things. In fact when she originally told me the story as a testimony, I certainly didn't doubt the possiblity that it was God...

I didn't have my doubts until a good year and a half later when she gave me that call.... Then I knew that something was "off". I definitely felt that she was in trouble due to her being in a home she couldn't pay for... And apparently it is quite the palace! So much so that she even asked me not to tell anybody in our social group that she had moved ( many are doctors and other folks in medicine) She stated that she didn't want them to see her home out of the fear of jealousy.... Now I was really surprised by that. But true to form she is kind of withdrawn now.

I know that she feels uncomfortable ever since I told her "No" to lending her money for a fureral. I don't know if the uncomfortable-ness is due to the fact that I knew about her home or to the fact that the person who lent her the money didn't know? But even now I still feel she is under the weight of something she can't bear....

Now I believe that the blessing of the Lord don't add any sorrow.... would that apply here? It is also believed that God will give us the desires of our hearts... I'm sure that she believed that was the case in regards to this house since it was something that she desired for a long time.....

But whether or not this was God.... THAT I have my doubts...

Kitty

[kitty]

Krazeboi,
I most defintely agree... the generic prophesy business has got to stop... Or people should really stop listening to it.... But hey... life experience will really teach you something!

As for the person who declared I was looking for a job... Ohhhh Boyyy.... she was way off! She didn't just stop there she declared that God was telling me to get a job in a particular part of town and a particular field. (false) Especially since God told me to move out of state and in between that time and now.... God hasn't required me to get a job... just to stay in school. In fact when I went to try to get a job because i thought I would need one to move.... those doors were closed also. But true to God's word He got me to the place He declared without me suffering for money.... Which is why I wonder why people think God wants them to do something but doesn't provide a way...


Kitty

[stillfocused]

Kitty..their buying old debts now..I just had one from Sears..and I don't own a Sears card. I am going to start reporting them for poor collection practices and start getting some that money that they have to pay for their fraudlent practices.