Christian Feminism: oxymoron or not?

[nina2]

Excerpt from:

FEMINISM AND THE BIBLE© 2000 Nicola Hoggard Creegan

Christian Feminism?

"The feminist critique of historic Christianity has left many, both Christians and feminists, believing ‘Christian Feminism’ to be an oxymoron. While various alternative spiritualities have sought to address the issues involved, the voice of theologians coming from a more orthodox position is seldom heard."

Questions

- Have you experienced any denigration or resistance when trying to lead in a Church?

- Do you think women should be equal in marriage and in Church leadership?

- What do you think of the Pauline passages that seem to preclude women?

- Do you think men mind women being in charge?

- Do you think things are getting better or worse for women?

- Do the backlashes against women make sense to you, or do you think they are insignificant?

- Do you think women have more opportunity to exercise their gifts in the church or outside of it?

- What is your attitude to the Bible when it is talking about women?

*... And... uh.... guys? If you are reading this, you are more than welcome to jump in

[Nikkol]

I think that men were called to be the head and that would include in the church. This doesn't negate women from ministering the word/prophesying/etc.

In marriage, as scripture explains, the woman is to submit to her husband. That doesn't mean that she can't give her opinion (in a meek, humble way) but when the decision is made, that decision is made by the husband.

I think things are getting worse for women because they're trying to do more than I think they were created for.

I think that the Paul's "preclusion" is actually for the good for females.

I think that when looking at divine order, many men would have a problem with a female in charge.

Besides, when you look at it, the things that the older women were to teach the younger women anyways is enough to keep us VERY busy in and of itself....

[giantsdodie]

Feminism is a spirit that is against the order that GOD has set up. Thats how I see it.

[nina2]

(Hi Giants, thank you for coming in... :-)

OK, you wrote:

Feminism is a spirit that is against the order that GOD has set up. Thats how I see it.

Could you elaborate more about feminism being a "spirit". Where did it originate from? How long ago did it manifest and why? What different forms might it have taken? And, also, what is the order set up by God? I know, it sounds obvious, but maybe we can go deeper? Most of all, if it is a spirit that is against the order set up by God, what is its ultimate purpose (not the obvious one, the ultimate one....)

And, since we are talking about it, at this point in time, do you think that there might be a reversal (whether in the secular or christian world) in the "strategy" of that spirit and that now, maybe, we are also seeing some kind of "MANism" manifesting? The feminist movement has brought a lot of changes, all around, whatever it brought to women, the men felt the effect. Now, years later, is it possible that men (not all...) might feel the need to "counter attack"? What would be the purpose of that "reaction"?
Would that be the same spirit in a different form?

Is it in the church also? And, if yes, how do we, once aware, re-establish and maintain order (which personally I would call "peace"....)?

Looking forward to your answer

[Nikkol]

My "million dollar comment" .... LOL

I think most ppl would see this originating with the "women lib" moreso starting in the 1960's

The set up scripturally (just a few verses)
1 Corinthians 11:1-3, 8-9
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3 But I would have you know , that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

Eph 5:22-27
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1 Peter 3:5-7
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are , as long as ye do well , and are not afraid with any amazement. 7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered .

I don't think it's about a "counter attack" but rather the importance of men being placed back in their rightful place. This of course isn't saying they are "better" than women but rather that our jobs are different; as we can see in what the aged women were told to teach the younger:

Titus 2:1-5
1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: 2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. 3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober , to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed .


I think the "issue" with trying to set back order starts in the home by which the men are once again the heads of the households and this should be followed through in the church as can be seen through these scriptures........


1 Timothy 3:2 KJV
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;.......

Titus 1:6 KJV
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. .......

A lot has to do with the mindset. As women, I don't think it's healthy believing that we should be able to do anything a man can do (and vice versa). key word being SHOULD. That's in the home as well as in the church. As someone that loves to be considered a "strong black woman" (who at times that equates to just plain out being rebellious) that was a HARD lesson for me. But I've found that if we do things in God's order as definied in scripture, things are a lot smoother. Does it mean that I agree with EVERYTHING my husband says? No. But it keeps peace in the home which spreads to the church as well.

[anointedteacher]

Feb 24, 2010 15:36:07 GMT -5 nina2 said:

(Hi Giants, thank you for coming in... :-)

OK, you wrote:

Feminism is a spirit that is against the order that GOD has set up. Thats how I see it.

Could you elaborate more about feminism being a "spirit". Where did it originate from? How long ago did it manifest and why? What different forms might it have taken? And, also, what is the order set up by God? I know, it sounds obvious, but maybe we can go deeper? Most of all, if it is a spirit that is against the order set up by God, what is its ultimate purpose (not the obvious one, the ultimate one....)

And, since we are talking about it, at this point in time, do you think that there might be a reversal (whether in the secular or christian world) in the "strategy" of that spirit and that now, maybe, we are also seeing some kind of "MANism" manifesting? The feminist movement has brought a lot of changes, all around, whatever it brought to women, the men felt the effect. Now, years later, is it possible that men (not all...) might feel the need to "counter attack"? What would be the purpose of that "reaction"?
Would that be the same spirit in a different form?

Is it in the church also? And, if yes, how do we, once aware, re-establish and maintain order (which personally I would call "peace"....)?

Looking forward to your answer

I think there a different in having equal right, with equal pay, equal justice etc... Yes, we came along way with the women right movement.. Women nolonger have to be a door mat and can acheive their dream and not limited to what they do and be... especially the black women, who always have been liberated.

Feminism movement are the extreme, and it rides on the rebellious spirit and Queen Jezebel... full of angers and bitterness... Have you ever notice how angry, resignful these women are and hatred toward men?.... Can you imagine that spirit in the Church?

[giantsdodie]

Feb 25, 2010 16:37:03 GMT -5 anointedteacher said:

Feb 24, 2010 15:36:07 GMT -5 nina2 said:

(Hi Giants, thank you for coming in... :-)

OK, you wrote:



Could you elaborate more about feminism being a "spirit". Where did it originate from? How long ago did it manifest and why? What different forms might it have taken? And, also, what is the order set up by God? I know, it sounds obvious, but maybe we can go deeper? Most of all, if it is a spirit that is against the order set up by God, what is its ultimate purpose (not the obvious one, the ultimate one....)

And, since we are talking about it, at this point in time, do you think that there might be a reversal (whether in the secular or christian world) in the "strategy" of that spirit and that now, maybe, we are also seeing some kind of "MANism" manifesting? The feminist movement has brought a lot of changes, all around, whatever it brought to women, the men felt the effect. Now, years later, is it possible that men (not all...) might feel the need to "counter attack"? What would be the purpose of that "reaction"?
Would that be the same spirit in a different form?

Is it in the church also? And, if yes, how do we, once aware, re-establish and maintain order (which personally I would call "peace"....)?

Looking forward to your answer

I think there a different in having equal right, with equal pay, equal justice etc... Yes, we came along way with the women right movement.. Women nolonger have to be a door mat and can acheive their dream and not limited to what they do and be... especially the black women, who always have been liberated.

Feminism movement are the extreme, and it rides on the rebellious spirit and Queen Jezebel... full of angers and bitterness... Have you ever notice how angry, resignful these women are and hatred toward men?.... Can you imagine that spirit in the Church?

AT pretty much has said what I was going to say in a LOT fewer words.. LOL

Jezebel is a spirit that usurps authority and also attempts to pervery the establised order of GOD.

Feminism is not just about equal rights, equal pay equal opportunity, its about the exaltation of women above all else and oftentimes at the expense of GOD's perfect plan and design.

God perfect plan and design is men and women working in harmony with each operating in their divine place. Femninism says that women can be in the place that men are in not just naturally but SPIRITUALLY.

This is not the will of GOD.

[anointedteacher]

Feminism = goddess Asherah .... This is what Apostle Paul was dealing with in the Ephesian and Corinthain churches... That is why his tone was strong toward the women in those two churches.... If you study the religion you will understand why he told the women in those particular (NOT ALL) churches to be quiet and not to teach the men... The women believe they were superior of the men and used their sexuality to control them.

Feminism movement is nothing but the moderest day Asherah....