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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 10, 2010 10:13:06 GMT -5
Pastor Terry Jones expects his followers to obey all his commands, according to bizarre rule book Fanatical Florida pastor Terry Jones wants to burn the Koran, but he expects followers to live by the Book of Jones. Jones' guide for prospective ministers, which was written by his wife Sylvia, is rife with misspellings and grammatical errors and reads like a brainwashing manual. "The student is required to be obedient to all commands," the "Academy Rulebook" states. Students at Jones' Dove World Outreach Center who don't obey "will be corrected instantly."
Under Jones' rules, students are "not allowed to visit family members or friends."
"Family occasions like wedding, funerals or Birthdays are no exception to this rule."
Mail and e-mail is allowed, but "no phone calls."
"Exceptions can be made under certain circumstances but only after receiving permission," the rules read.Jones also forbade "Singles" from having "romantic relationships to the opposite sex." "There is no need to talk at all, or even flirt!" according to the rulebook. The focus, the Joneses insisted, should be on God. "The student is responsible to share the gospel with one person each day," the book states. The Joneses also tackle personal matters with what The Smoking Gun, the web site that obtained the six-page manual, called "creepy" detail. Alcohol, candy, and eating out at restaurants is banned. "Students will be put on the scale once a week," the rules state.
The Joneses also insisted that students "wash or shower at least once a day but not more then (sic) 2 a day."
Make sure to cleanse "Mouth, sweat areas, hair, feet hands," the rules state.====================================================== We need to do a background check, before defending a minister or ministry.... This is a cult not a church! I knew there was something not right about this pastor and his congregation... He was knick out of Germany and had a much higher followers, of 2000... We need to check out the roots of their behaviors... As a Christian, we should speak out and expose cults like this and let the public know they are not apart of us.... This is the student's handbook: www.thesmokinggun.com/file/dove-church-rulebookI read that. Yikes! What in the world is THAT all about? An Academy for studying to be a minister where you can't go out to eat, have contact with family members, shower twice a day, etc.  |
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Post by anointedteacher on Sept 10, 2010 11:36:23 GMT -5
I read he had a church in Germany... the members would work endless hours at his wife company or ministry... with little to no wages, without healthcare, which is illegal in Germany. Very controlling... it is really a cult...
President had Gate to talk to him along with CIA to brief him and his members... unlike the mosque, this pastor was putting our service men and women in danger and would increase terrorios attacks on Americans around the world and in the USA....
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 10, 2010 12:35:57 GMT -5
I just read over the rules..... This is specifically for a period of time....not forever....somewhat extreme.....not sure if I'd equate that to a DEFINITELY being a cult...
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 10, 2010 12:51:26 GMT -5
1. We know that the Lord our God is holy and unless their scriptures were given by inspriation by God, I wouldn't as a Christian call it the "holy quran".
2. If the churches overseas are already being persecuted/tortured/etc, how will the church be in GREATER danger if he chose to burn the book? I doubt we'd say you can be "extra" killed....
3. I don't think he was alone in his decision to burn the quran based on this statement:
"We are, of course, now against any other group burning Qurans," Jones said during the news conference. We would right now ask no one to burn Qurans. We are absolutely strong on that. It is not the time to do it."
4. There are many ways to take a stand against false religions.......
5. I'm still thinking out loud...will return later for clarification....
6. I'm not sure how much persecution that is going on....but based on the publication we get "Voice of the Martyrs", it seems to be continuous...just not always publicized....
7. I can understand maybe having a biblical study on understanding how to witness to a Muslim (they have those for JW's, Buudhists, etc). I can even understand someone giving a testimony and talking about what they had learned and why they became a Christian.....what I don't understand is just deciding to read some passages from the Quran during your church service....what is/would be the purpose?
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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 10, 2010 15:12:24 GMT -5
1. We know that the Lord our God is holy and unless their scriptures were given by inspriation by God, I wouldn't as a Christian call it the "holy quran". Did you read where anyone called it "the holy Koran"? All that I've read is that people refer to it as Islam's holy book--which it is. At any rate, this is a relatively minor point. The term "holy" has many uses, and as I stated, Christians don't have an exclusive patent on the term. I just explained that Christians in Afghanistan are not being routinely killed for their faith; they are just underground. A provocation like this could change that with Christians being actively hunted down and killed. In many countries, there's persecution, but it's more along the lines of isolated incidents. Something like burning copies of the Koran could escalate this into full-fledged, systematic persecution. I don't know why you'd say something a bit nonsensical as being "extra killed" when it makes perfect sense to say that MORE Christians could be persecuted and killed. And then he went back on his word and said that the Koran burning was only "suspended," not canceled. And then at that news conference yesterday, he talked about the Islamic cultural center in Manhattan being built elsewhere in exchange for calling off the Koran burning. That was never even an explicit reason for him planning to burn Korans in the first place; he said that it was to "send a message" to radical Islam. The guy was under pressure, having received visits from the FBI and getting a call from Defense Secretary Gates, and that's why he called it off. He just said all that stuff to save face. And if he weren't alone, the news would have picked up on it by now, especially if other people/churches wanted to do it to "send a message." It's pretty hard to send a message to a group of people if they are unaware of your actions. It seems as though you see this as an expedient and effective way to do so. So will your church be having a Koran burning in the near future? If not, why not? I don't know; possibly to read passages that they believe demonstrate that Islam is an inherently peaceful religion or how it shares Abrahamic roots with Christianity and Islam. I don't want to get into a debate about that though, as it's not the point of the thread. |
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 13, 2010 13:02:16 GMT -5
Yes I have read that....hence why I said it. :-) This may help in discussing persecution in Afghanistan HEREThe "extra killed" was just playing around based on your previous statement. Additionally, "extra killed" made as much sense to me as you discussing that more christians would be persecuted....which could give ppl the impression that there are some Christians that are known to be Christians that Afghanistans just "leave alone"..... The point is that we can't be "unwise" at thinking that just because we don't hear about persecution means that it's not going on...esp because the fact that churches must be underground should be an indicator of this. It is possible that there were other churches joining with him but chose not to do it in the open. I'm not really understanding why only if something is in media or spoken by certain ppl is what validates that something is going on. But my OPINION was that based on that previous mentioned line, it didn't seem like he was alone. And to that fact, there were others that did burn the Koran on that day...... I've never said that. My not saying something is wrong doesn't equate with me deciding to do it. I do hope that we aren't getting to the place that my "confirmation" of what you are saying has to be an indication that I'm "for" the opposite. Do I believe that it's wrong to burn books of different religions? No. Do I believe that he was wrong for wanting to do it? No. Do I believe he was right in wanting to do it? No. We can agree that Christianity isn't a religion that most ppl will accept. We can also agree that most ppl are not Christians. (Narrow is the way). But for me to say that because he was doing something that others didn't like because of persecution that it was wrong is not something that I can say. It could be that some ppl in these persecuted areas seeing that someone in America was standing against Islam in such a "in your face" kind of way was praised by some. What's unfortunately happening is that the voice of other religions are getting louder as the voice of Christianity in arenas gets smaller. I was on another board talking about this issue by which even in school, the teachers allow the Muslim kids to go and pray at the times in which they are supposed to. At the same time, reading other boards/comments regarding different issues, more and more ppl are being very vocal of their dislike towards Christians and saying that we are intolerant... There may come a day when I could be told to deny Jesus and if I don't they will burn churches, etc. Or it may come to you (general) and if you don't they will take it out on your family...... I personally can see this situation in that same way. They want him to just be quiet...don't offend those of other religions....they are good ppl.....don't tell them that they're wrong.....we all want to get along.... But like I said that's my PERSONAL opinion. KRAZEE, I know that you are wanting me to take a "this is right/this is wrong" approach and I can't. I haven't prayed/sought God in reference to this particular issue. Should I have? I don't know....and if I should've, I ask forgiveness to God, for not doing what I should've done. What I can say is that what he was doing wasn't "sin." I can also say that if God didn't say to do it and he didn't, good....but if this was from God and he didn't, he'll have to answer God on that for himself. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 13, 2010 14:41:23 GMT -5
Yes I have read that....hence why I said it. :-) It's a moot point anyway. The Koran is Islam's holy book, so it's holy to them. Actually, that IS how it works in a lot of places. Otherwise, there'd be no Christians in any of those other places because they would have all been killed. Of course it's going on. But my point is that it's not an outright massacre of all Christians happening in Afghanistan. That would be something akin to Rwandan genocide on a smaller scale and the world would definitely know about it. If that's the case, then why were they silent while this one preacher took all of the heat? Where were those other pastors and leaders to stand with him? That's because this was a rogue operation and this guy was going at it alone. What other churches had Koran burnings on 9/11? Your entire response thus far has been a defense of this pastor and what he planned to do. It's not simply the fact that others didn't like it. Their arguments and positions had substantial merit. Who knows? In some cases, Christians really are. In other cases, we simply do not know how to make our arguments in the public square. We can allow our faith to inform our politics, but when pressed for reasons behind it, it would be helpful to say more than just "I'm a Christian." I'll never forget when one state was going to have a statewide lottery on the ballot one year, and they were interviewing people about how they felt about having a lottery in their state. One lady just said she was a Christian and that's why she was against it. I didn't get that. TOTALLY different situations. This pastor suffers nothing by not burning Korans. Not at all, Nikkol. This guy can preach all he wants against Islam, and he has. He's even had a sign out at his church saying "Islam is of the devil." He has those constitutional rights, and no one is trying to shut down those expressions of his faith. But it's a totally different matter when the guy wants to burn Korans on 9/11 in the middle of a charged anti-Islam national environment, which could potentially cause a great bit of harm from a national security perspective. This is just a message board, Nikkol. I honestly don't think it's really that deep, LOL. I think we have more than enough information to judge whether or not this is from God. This demonstrates one of my pet peeves with Pentecostalism in general, but I'm not going down that road in this discussion. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 13, 2010 14:52:32 GMT -5
Florida preacher's anti-Islam actions leave some Pentecostals coldBy Tim Funktfunk@charlotteobserver.com
Posted: Monday, Sep. 13, 2010Like the tiny Florida church that shook the world last week with its pastor's threat to burn copies of the Quran, Central Church of God calls itself Pentecostal. And like that 50-member Dove World Outreach Center, which put up signs equating Islam with the devil, this 6,000-member megachurch in south Charlotte is not bashful about cursing Satan or about praising Jesus with tears of emotion. But, on Sunday, interviews with Pastor Loran Livingston and members of his flock turned up zero support for waging war against Islam by burning its holy book. While insisting that belief in Jesus is the one true path to God, they said they are called as Christians to win converts by showing love, not make enemies by spreading hate."The church's business is to tell all people - Jews, Muslims everybody - that Christ loves them and God will save them," said Livingston, one of Charlotte's star preachers, who inherited a congregation of just 22 people when he became pastor in 1977. "I don't think Jesus meant for us to be divisive and militant." Livingston said he was embarrassed that combative Pastor Terry Jones - the mustachioed man in the news who finally backed down from his plan to torch 200 Qurans - held himself up as a Pentecostal. The fast-growing brand of Christianity takes its name from the feast of Pentecost, when Jesus' apostles received the Holy Spirit and were empowered to speak in foreign languages. In today's Pentecostal churches, many adherents speak in tongues or perform healings. "We could get so much more done for the Lord if we would do it his way," Livingston said. "He told (apostle) Peter, 'Put your sword away. If you live by the sword, you'll die by the sword.' We're supposed to be peacemakers. We're supposed to love everybody... It doesn't matter what they've done to us or might do in the future. We're to love them." During his Sunday sermon to a packed sanctuary and overflow satellite buildings, Livingston made it clear that he and members of his interracial congregation differ from other, non-Christian religions. That includes Islam, which honors Jesus as a great prophet but worships only Allah - the Arabic name for God - as divine. "There is only one true God - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - whose son is Jesus," he told his flock, many of whom lifted their hands heavenward and shouted their approval. "In these days, (many) pick a god and put a name on it. No, his name is Jesus." But in the next breath, Livingston said that same Jesus "teaches us to be kind, teaches us to be peacemakers... The Bible says we are to make peace with all men." After the service, worshipers on the way to their cars expressed the same themes - Jesus is the only true way, but showing disrespect to people of other faiths is the wrong way to express that. "There are better ways to get your message out than going to extremes and burning a document that many base their lives on and consider sacred," said Bogdan Pomerlyan, 26, a software developer. "Although I believe strongly in what we (Christians) believe... what (Jones) was doing was pushing people farther away, not trying to get them closer."Romanian-born Peter Oprea, an entrepreneur who lives in Marvin, said Jones was just looking for media attention when he should have considered how his threat would feel if it were reversed, and a Muslim imam were threatening to burn Christianity's sacred book. "I wouldn't feel comfortable if I heard my Bible would be burned," said Oprea, 40. "I respect a holy document even though it's not my own." Constantin Nasui, 56, of Harrisburg, agreed, saying the better way to counter Islam - "a false religion," he said - was to pray for Muslims. Jesus, Nasui said, "is love, kindness, compassion." And he's the truth and the only way to God, added Leah Ponds, 30, a nanny who lives in Charlotte. "When you have the truth - Jesus Christ is the truth - then it's not necessary to do anything that would stir up something in other people," she said. Putting up signs that say Islam is evil turns people off and builds walls, she added. Instead, said Ponds, who will leave soon for a mission trip in some predominantly Muslim countries, Christians should try to share their belief in Jesus - and let God take it from there."I want to talk to (Muslims) and just lift up Christ," she said. "Because Christ will draw people unto himself." A little blunter in her views Sunday was Tricia Pope, 39, of Denver, who was making her first visit to Central Church of God in a decade. She agreed with Florida pastor Jones that Islam is of the devil - "anything that is not of Jesus is of the devil" - and said a battle between Christianity and Islam was prophesied in the Bible.
Still, she agreed that burning Qurans is a wrongheaded idea, and not the way to bring more people to Jesus.In fact, Pope, a stay-at-home mom of two children, said she's worried that Jones and his tiny Pentecostal church in Gainesville, Fla., may have turned people off to the Christian message. Said Pope: "I just pray that people will not judge Jesus based on what he is doing."
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 15, 2010 8:22:35 GMT -5
Post from another board that I wanted to share: Once again biblical and constitutional liberties have been sacrificed on the altar of political correctness this time by our so called Christian Leaders whom have taken the path of appeasement and cowardice .
George Washington desecrated a few British Union Jacks during his time with no apologies for doing so . To his generation the cause of liberty was far more important than dubious notions of political correctness and appeasement. At this rate we might as well WHOLLY surrender to Islam . They have essentially imposed Sharia on us .
I certainly question the Florida Pastor's wisdom in purposing to burn the Quran but I most certainly admire his courage. To hear many Christain leaders pile on the Florida Pastor you would think he commited the ultimate heresy as opposed to one whom was simply trying to prove the all to obvious point that time honored sacred American notions of God given liberty will soon be a thing of the past as America increasingly embraces the inherently false intelectually fraudulent but politically correct notion that the US can co-exist with Islam.
One Christian bible society charismamag.com/index.php/new...-to-burn-quran even went as far as proposing distributing Qurans in order to supposedly counter the Florida pastor and build bridges to muslims. While they were at it they should also have distrtibuted copies of Hitler's Mein Kampf in order to buld bridges with Neo -Nazis heck why not a few copies of Marx and Engels communist manifesto in order to build bridges to the leftists among us. Afterall thiose texts are far less Anti-Semitic and far less totalitarian then the Quran and the Hadiths are.
And of course Lee Grady formerly of Charisma weighs in charismamag.com/index.php/fire-in-my-bones and as usual misses the point . Mischaracterizing the Florida pastor's actions as bigotry . This is like calling someone who stands up to the class bully a bigot .
Meanwhile our muslim friends and followers of the religion of peace www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11293896 have been busy in India fighting Hindus over the desecration of the Quran in the US . Apparently no one told them that The Florida Pastor has sionce called off the Quran burning affair or that Florida is a thousands of miles away from India but then again when have facts or common sense ever been of any value to the members of the "Religion of Peace" or the empty headed apologists for Islam in the West ?
In any case I think you ladies on this forum better go buy your Burkahs and your Hijabs because at this rate you will be needing them very soon and while you are at it learn to say Allahu Akhbar while walking four steps behind your husbands at all times. Slowly but surely Sharia is coming to a city near you. |
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 17, 2010 9:51:31 GMT -5
Security cost for planned Quran burn about $200,000 The Associated Press Published: September 17, 2010 Updated: 09:26 am GAINESVILLE - Security for last Saturday's canceled Quran burning cost about $200,000, and city officials said they expect the church that organized the controversial event to pay. Police Maj. Rick Hanna said more than 200 officers were on duty last weekend patrolling the Dove World Outreach Center, where the burning was to take place, as well as a University of Florida football game and "soft targets" such as a mall. Another 160 sheriff's deputies were also working because of planned protests at the church. Gainesville City Manager Russ Blackburn said he doesn't know whether the city has legal authority to compel the church to pay. Pastor Terry Jones canceled the Quran burning, slated to coincide with the ninth anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, after international pressure. The football game Saturday between UF and the University of South Florida at Ben Hill Griffin Stadium drew more than 90,000 fans. I don't think it is legal to sur them.....
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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 21, 2010 4:28:39 GMT -5
What are these alarmist warnings based on???
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 21, 2010 7:01:25 GMT -5
What are these alarmist warnings based on??? I think that there are those that understand that the plan for Islam is that everyone will be Muslim. Hence why in their text they are suppose to kill the infidels.....and so although you have some "Americanized Muslims" that say that we should all be able to live together in harmony, that isn't backed up by their text. And so you'll (general) have to make a decision....join or be killed... |
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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 21, 2010 11:20:33 GMT -5
I think that there are those that understand that the plan for Islam is that everyone will be Muslim. Hence why in their text they are suppose to kill the infidels.....and so although you have some "Americanized Muslims" that say that we should all be able to live together in harmony, that isn't backed up by their text. And so you'll (general) have to make a decision....join or be killed... Actually, the Koran encourages tolerance AND talks about slaying infidels. Just like the Bible, the context matters. This is why you have "moderate" Muslims in the West, and the more fundamentalist ones like those in the Middle East. Their interpretations are different, which is also why there are different sects within Islam as well. All that said, I don't see any evidence at all here in the US that "Sharia is coming to a city near you." |
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 21, 2010 14:09:28 GMT -5
I think that there are those that understand that the plan for Islam is that everyone will be Muslim. Hence why in their text they are suppose to kill the infidels.....and so although you have some "Americanized Muslims" that say that we should all be able to live together in harmony, that isn't backed up by their text. And so you'll (general) have to make a decision....join or be killed... Actually, the Koran encourages tolerance AND talks about slaying infidels. Just like the Bible, the context matters. This is why you have "moderate" Muslims in the West, and the more fundamentalist ones like those in the Middle East. Their interpretations are different, which is also why there are different sects within Islam as well. All that said, I don't see any evidence at all here in the US that "Sharia is coming to a city near you." "West" = America? I thought this was just an interesting article HERE in reference to "tolerance" and Islam. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Sept 21, 2010 19:49:31 GMT -5
"West" meaning the western, industrialized world: Europe (particularly western Europe), US, Canada, Australia, Japan, etc.
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