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Post by giantsdodie on Nov 7, 2007 14:53:10 GMT -5
you what also makes me sad about this. Lets use the example we have on this post. "they just interviewed Creflo Dollar on CNN and asked him why he need 2 Rolls, a million dollar home and a jet when some people in his congregation are still taking the bus and living 5 and 6 in an apartment?? " Now notice who the onus of the responsibility is place on. Thats what media does and thats unfortunately what the church does. We say things like... They should be helping people with all that money. Have you investigated who they may have helped ? Do you know whose life they have sown into over and over and over and over again and have had GOD bless them ?? Is it at all possible that because of the the things that they do in secret to be a blessing to people GOD is rewarding them OPENLY for? Is it possible we are seeing the result of YEARS and YEARS of sowing bringing forth the fruit of harvest? We say dumb stuff like.. Well they driving in rolls royces and most of their people are riding the bus... As I heard a man once say... Let me speak on this.. We serve a fair righteous and just GOD. But yet GOD does not distribute to every man equally. God distributes to man according to their character, faithfuless and ability. In the story of the talents the master gave one man 5 another man 2 and another man 1. He gave to them according to their ability. The one with 5 got another 5. The one with 2 got another 2. The one with 1 went and buried his in the ground.... I said that to say what... Dont blame the servant when they are faithful over a FEW things and GOD makes them RULER over many... Dont get mad at the man who had 5 was faithful with what the Master gave him and got another five... The guy with One had opportunity and TIME to do something.. He chose to do NOTHING with what He was given... So is that bus riding person being faithful over what they have been given. investing it in the kingdom and is it possible that they are waiting for their harvest which has yet to manifest... OR have they just been stupid and lazy  PS Dont hate when I blowuptuate....  |
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Post by kitty on Nov 7, 2007 15:35:32 GMT -5
hhhmmm.... I don't know Giants....
I don't know.... I'm gonna get real here. I went to a private school, and I have been exposed to plenty of rich and famous people over the years... The times that I have been blown away were when I found out how rich an associate was because for all practical purposes... The were pretty mild in their possessions. It suggested something to me... About their character and about the fact that they were a good steward over what they owned. There was no waste! And if we are real honest about it... of those worldy possessions are really a waste!
There does get to a point when some of those possessions represent a sin. Gluttony...
And yes I do think it is more of a sin if a person is giving to the church and their money is going to support gluttony habits of the pastor and staff rather than supporting the members in the congregation.
I don't think there is anything wrong with those in minstry having nice things... I think God can bless them many ways... But just not with my money if I am trying to pay tithe and a light bill...
Let God give to those in a miracle fashion... rather having a Pastor tell the congregation to give what they have (or can't afford) then depend on God... Yet he (the pastor) is depending on them!
Kitty
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Post by MsKayLander on Nov 7, 2007 17:09:01 GMT -5
you what also makes me sad about this. Lets use the example we have on this post. "they just interviewed Creflo Dollar on CNN and asked him why he need 2 Rolls, a million dollar home and a jet when some people in his congregation are still taking the bus and living 5 and 6 in an apartment?? " Now notice who the onus of the responsibility is place on. Thats what media does and thats unfortunately what the church does. We say things like... They should be helping people with all that money. Have you investigated who they may have helped ? Do you know whose life they have sown into over and over and over and over again and have had GOD bless them ?? Is it at all possible that because of the the things that they do in secret to be a blessing to people GOD is rewarding them OPENLY for? Is it possible we are seeing the result of YEARS and YEARS of sowing bringing forth the fruit of harvest? We say dumb stuff like.. Well they driving in rolls royces and most of their people are riding the bus... As I heard a man once say... Let me speak on this.. We serve a fair righteous and just GOD. But yet GOD does not distribute to every man equally. God distributes to man according to their character, faithfuless and ability. In the story of the talents the master gave one man 5 another man 2 and another man 1. He gave to them according to their ability. The one with 5 got another 5. The one with 2 got another 2. The one with 1 went and buried his in the ground.... I said that to say what... Dont blame the servant when they are faithful over a FEW things and GOD makes them RULER over many... Dont get mad at the man who had 5 was faithful with what the Master gave him and got another five... The guy with One had opportunity and TIME to do something.. He chose to do NOTHING with what He was given... So is that bus riding person being faithful over what they have been given. investing it in the kingdom and is it possible that they are waiting for their harvest which has yet to manifest... OR have they just been stupid and lazy PS Dont hate when I blowuptuate.... Why you gotta use my example??? Everytime I say something you always have to use me when you go off on your rants... CHILL!!!!!!! ;D J/K |
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Post by chosen on Nov 7, 2007 17:10:42 GMT -5
you what also makes me sad about this. Lets use the example we have on this post. "they just interviewed Creflo Dollar on CNN and asked him why he need 2 Rolls, a million dollar home and a jet when some people in his congregation are still taking the bus and living 5 and 6 in an apartment?? " Now notice who the onus of the responsibility is place on. Thats what media does and thats unfortunately what the church does. We say things like... They should be helping people with all that money. Have you investigated who they may have helped ? Do you know whose life they have sown into over and over and over and over again and have had GOD bless them ?? Is it at all possible that because of the the things that they do in secret to be a blessing to people GOD is rewarding them OPENLY for? Is it possible we are seeing the result of YEARS and YEARS of sowing bringing forth the fruit of harvest? We say dumb stuff like.. Well they driving in rolls royces and most of their people are riding the bus... As I heard a man once say... Let me speak on this.. We serve a fair righteous and just GOD. But yet GOD does not distribute to every man equally. God distributes to man according to their character, faithfuless and ability. In the story of the talents the master gave one man 5 another man 2 and another man 1. He gave to them according to their ability. The one with 5 got another 5. The one with 2 got another 2. The one with 1 went and buried his in the ground.... I said that to say what... Dont blame the servant when they are faithful over a FEW things and GOD makes them RULER over many... Dont get mad at the man who had 5 was faithful with what the Master gave him and got another five... The guy with One had opportunity and TIME to do something.. He chose to do NOTHING with what He was given... So is that bus riding person being faithful over what they have been given. investing it in the kingdom and is it possible that they are waiting for their harvest which has yet to manifest... OR have they just been stupid and lazy PS Dont hate when I blowuptuate.... Why you gotta use my example??? Everytime I say something you always have to use me when you go off on your rants... CHILL!!!!!!! ;D J/K LOL ;D |
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 7, 2007 17:59:49 GMT -5
What do you classify as excessive wealth I heard a story of a man who is an inventor ( He is the guy who invented the motors for giant earth mover dump trucks. The wheels are so large each one has its own motor ) The man is a multi billionare and he is a christian. He tithed on all his income.. and God increased him. He gave money away to ministies.. God Blessed him. He started tithing 20%.. then 30%.. Then 50%... He said it got to the point where he was giving away 90% of his income and living of the 10% and the ten percent was MORE than he could spend or give away. He asked GOD to stop. God said.. Sorry I cant.. I would have to rewrite the law of the universe to do so.. As LONG as the Earth remains there will seedtime and harvest. if you keep sowing seed you will keep reaping a harvest.. The harvest is ALWAYS greater than the seed sown... I said that to say what.. personally I NEVER question someones wealth status particularly when I dont know their gviing status. Glory to GOD!! That was awesome. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Nov 7, 2007 18:21:19 GMT -5
you what also makes me sad about this. Lets use the example we have on this post. "they just interviewed Creflo Dollar on CNN and asked him why he need 2 Rolls, a million dollar home and a jet when some people in his congregation are still taking the bus and living 5 and 6 in an apartment?? " Now notice who the onus of the responsibility is place on. Thats what media does and thats unfortunately what the church does. We say things like... They should be helping people with all that money. Have you investigated who they may have helped ? Do you know whose life they have sown into over and over and over and over again and have had GOD bless them ?? Is it at all possible that because of the the things that they do in secret to be a blessing to people GOD is rewarding them OPENLY for? Is it possible we are seeing the result of YEARS and YEARS of sowing bringing forth the fruit of harvest? We say dumb stuff like.. Well they driving in rolls royces and most of their people are riding the bus... As I heard a man once say... Let me speak on this.. We serve a fair righteous and just GOD. But yet GOD does not distribute to every man equally. God distributes to man according to their character, faithfuless and ability. In the story of the talents the master gave one man 5 another man 2 and another man 1. He gave to them according to their ability. The one with 5 got another 5. The one with 2 got another 2. The one with 1 went and buried his in the ground.... I said that to say what... Dont blame the servant when they are faithful over a FEW things and GOD makes them RULER over many... Dont get mad at the man who had 5 was faithful with what the Master gave him and got another five... The guy with One had opportunity and TIME to do something.. He chose to do NOTHING with what He was given... So is that bus riding person being faithful over what they have been given. investing it in the kingdom and is it possible that they are waiting for their harvest which has yet to manifest... OR have they just been stupid and lazy PS Dont hate when I blowuptuate.... Why you gotta use my example??? Everytime I say something you always have to use me when you go off on your rants... CHILL!!!!!!! ;D J/K I had a long one based of Kitty's post but I timed out... now I have to get riled up to rant again ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by giantsdodie on Nov 9, 2007 9:02:05 GMT -5
WARNING POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE POST BELOW.. I have to say this... Church folks and Black folks in particular are some of the THE MOST IGNORANT folks on the planet when it comes to money and finances. Also they tend to be the BIGGEST HATERS when someone has more than they have.. How can we stand there in judgement and call someone elses lifestyle sin? Im sorry I cant stand here without knowing someone record of tithing. giving, sowing and sacrifice and call the lifestyle they have sin. The MINUTE a man of woman of God obtains anything above what WE determine they have a right to have WE because we are ignorant stupid and often jealous assume that they MUST be stealing from the people. Now I am not saying that doesnt happen in some churches. What I am saying is that it doesnt happen everywhere. And where do we get this idea that GOD cannot bless a pastor or leader to a level of abundance.. Soloman was rich (in fact the Bible says he is the richest man that ever lived) AbrahamIssac and Jacob were rich. Joseph was rich. David was rich. Why do we IGNORANTLY assume they are stealing? Why are we too ignorant to realize that mist churches are set up in many different ways. Most large churches are set up with the ministry as one organization such as Creflo Dollars WorldChangers. This is the non profit ministry from which the pastor receives a salary. Then there is Creflp Dollar Ministries which SELLS his books, tapes, dvd's etc which are sold for a profit and he receives some of those profits. That operates like a business, NOT a church. The other thing that irritates the heck out of me is that we will comment on what they SHOULD be doing with their money while having NO IDEA WHATSOEVER on what they are ALREADY doing. We have NO IDEA who they have helped and blessed over the YEARS they have been in ministry... Nope.. we just see harvest and cry THIEF THIEF.... And when did it become MY MONEY.. I thought it was GOD's Money... My Bible says ALL the silver and gold belongs to HIM.. The earth is HIS.. everything in it and everyone on it. I am responsible to be a GOOD steward. As long as I give wat GOD has called me to give where GOD has called me to give HE WILL bless me for obedience.. If THEY mess up GOD's money.. thats between THEM and GOD... You know there are pastors who know how to invest money.. start businesses... sit on the board of businesses.. invest in real estate... etc etc and money comes from THOSE avenues as well.. NOT just Your tithe and your three dollar " Father, Son, Holy Ghost" offering... We better wake up... GOD is TRYING to raise some end time financiers for the KINGDOM but stupid ignorant saints ( specially us negroes... ) keep fighting the shift... Where is the money going to come from for christian schools what about more christian universities.. Who is going to finance christian businesses.. Who is going to take care of the widows and the orphans??? Whose gonna by bibles and translate tapes into peoples native language? Whose going to pay to send doctor and medicine to poor nations.. Whose going to pay to build housing here and abroad?? Whose gonna pay to have a well dug in that african village?? Whose gonna buy that prostitute off the corner who got saved last week an entiree NEW wardrobe ?? Whose gonna pay for the apartment for that homeless man who got saved at the mission lat week ?? Whose gonna pay for Sister Edwina's house when her husband died Not some of us.. |
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Post by anointed on Nov 9, 2007 10:22:27 GMT -5
WARNING POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE POST BELOW.. I have to say this... Church folks and Black folks in particular are some of the THE MOST IGNORANT folks on the planet when it comes to money and finances. Also they tend to be the BIGGEST HATERS when someone has more than they have.. Your post was in no way offensive. In fact, I'm looking like this right now ;D ;D ;D And I actually hear Christians say "Why are those big churches having conferences and seminars on finances and business? Why can't they just preach Jesus, hung and crucified?" LOL! But to add to these statements you made (esp. about black folks being some of the "Biggest Haters"), we have to watch what we call "arrogant" and "prideful." For instance, when many people get the idea that someone is rich or got money, one of the immediate things that come to mind is "that person is stuck up and arrogant" and this isn't always the case. I've set among people who come from money, and when they talk about what they have, a person who might not come from that background might perceive them as arrogant when in actuality that's just their lifestyle. It doesn't mean it's arrogance. I started to write on another post that ministry is no longer my aspiration. Why? Because it seems people have this idea that if you preach or teach the Gospel within the church setting, then you've given up your rights to own businesses, get in entertainment, etc. I know God has called me to teach His Word (and sometimes I don't desire it) but I also know he has called me to work in the education system and entreprenuership. The church should have its own. Banks, businesses, movies, spas, clothing, etc. and then generate money for our churches while providing avenues in which Christians can enjoy themselves. Now, I've been in church all of my life: singing, ushering, church plays, bible study, prayer meetings with the old mothers, vacation bible school, COGIC convocations, Baptist conventions, church trips, church retreats, you name it. I'm sorry but I'm sick of going to church already knowing that song that's going to make everybody shout, listening to preachers use tongues as filters when they run out of words to say, the same mean people getting prophesied to every week ... church almost seem predictable. But when I hear of Christians, including ministers, starting businesses, schools, getting into real estate, writing their own movies or plays, etc. that excites me and allows me to see that the Lord really is moving the Church in a fresh Kingdom way. So I ranted to just say, I won't hate when a minister or anybody else makes it BIG and is doing well. We don't know what they do in secret to bless others that we would never know about. People always want to know what a preacher is doing with his or her money as far as helping people, but doesn't the bible tell us to do our work in secret? I know many people distrust leaders because of some cases of mismanagement with money but that shouldn't hinder you. We are responsible for sowing in what we believe is good soil and God will bless us even if he has to deal with a minister who isn't stewarding correctly. However, in all things have wisdom. Really there should be a check and balance with church leadership. But back to my point, The bible says to rejoice when others rejoice. Why am I going to hate on someone who's where I'm trying to be (which is successful in what God has for me). I live by basic principles:love and serve God, enjoy your life to the fullest, and treat people right! With that, I can't go wrong. Thanks Giants for the post! I won't be a hater (as you can see I try to take up for most ministers  ) |
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Post by anointedteacher on Nov 9, 2007 11:34:10 GMT -5
Amen!!! Amen!!! to Giant and Anointed (Bynum and My Sister ;D) Agree with the both of U! I am so tired of hearing about how much money preachers have and their cars, houses and jets.  I am not interested in what they have, what they make and what they do with the money they make. It is not my business, especially if I am NOT apart of their ministry and not giving into their ministry. When I tithes and give... I don't worry about where is went and how it spend. It is no longer my (which is God's money) because it is no longer my money (I'm no longer a steward over that money). I have released it COMPLETELY.... Now the minister that I planted in it the new Steward over that money and they will have to give account to God on how they use it, not me. God told me to plant, it is my responsibility to plant in good soil, after I plant, I released to seed and I don't go back yo dig it up to see what it doing... it is no longer my Responsibility. Posted by giantsdodie on Today at 10:02am You haven't been on crosswalk, where a bunch of ignorant white folks hating preachers for having money. They hate everybody that not a southern baptist and rich. They do more than tearing down those who are in the frontline with money, they kill their characters. They believe these preachers are taking money from the poor helpless widows, single mothers, and the poorest of poor. Thank U guys for your posts God bless AT |
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Post by giantsdodie on Nov 9, 2007 11:46:33 GMT -5
Actually I have been on crosswalk a LONG time ago. And who do you think has started this latest round of attacks on " pentcostal charasmatic " churches?.... Fundamentalists and watchdog church groups...
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Post by anointedteacher on Nov 9, 2007 11:59:49 GMT -5
Actually I have been on crosswalk a LONG time ago. And who do you think has started this latest round of attacks on " pentcostal charasmatic " churches?.... Fundamentalists and watchdog church groups... ;D ;D ;D You are right.... not watchmen, but watchdogs They watch and bark  and they are Fund-mental-lists, they take a list of preachers' funds, and inventory of what they have. |
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Post by Beulah5 on Nov 9, 2007 12:14:56 GMT -5
Hmm i personally believe that God has always raised up and wants to raise up financiers for the kingdom. It is part of why Jesus died-that we might exchange our poverty for His riches. As someone who is very creative and believes in advancing myself in every way possible i also bear witness to the fact that i believe that there should be no one more creative than the believer. The problem i have is if this becomes a focus instead of eternity. When we begin to become more well known for some of our money grabbing ways more than we become known for our stand on righteousness, preaching Christ and Him crucified, taking the gospel to a lost world then i am scratching my head. In addition how do we acquire our wealth. Legit blessings of God does not ask me to come and buy ur soap or else ur ministry cannot go forward neither do i need u to write me long tedious mailing circulars trying to convince me to part with my cash. Yes partnership is part of God's plan-right partnership not some of these silly gimmicks. Also when we wrongly assume that because we are acquiring a lot of wealth that God is automatically pleased with us. I know a few christian millionaires and people who are really wealthy and they will testify that as they give, honour and obery God they do not even ask for it it automatically pursues and overtakes them. What we do in private God rewards publicly-God can bless anyone whom He pleases without our permission even if we dont feel the person deserves it that is up to God. He does not need a counsel to determine anything  My problem is when this issue of money, its acquisition, its scandals, its adoration, the love of it, money grabbing schemes overshadows our ministries or becomes our focus rather than the gospel. And i believe that i am biblically right because of this-also i disagree that this is a black folks issue or at least it isnt here in the uk it is an all round problem in the body of christ. What i would say though is that we black folks are the one who seem to want to make it the object of every sermon-i dont know whether it is due to our recent freeing from slavery but there is more to preaching the gospel than the money bit-obviously that is not the case for all but certainly something we need looking at. Having said that i do not believe that a lot of the financial problems we face is due to God-just bad mismanagement and we need to face up to that if everytime God blesses u u have to change ur car and buy some new bling and u do not learn the basics of good stewardship then how are u ever going to have enough to be able to change society? My rant |
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Post by stillfocused on Nov 9, 2007 12:29:15 GMT -5
Anointed..you're correct in last post. Yet, the problem is not with them having the problem..it' the way that they gain the money. We all know that many have other ministries; they write books, and etc. Yet, how many times have you heard this one " listen to the prophet" and you will prosper. Because as GDD has stated that we really don't understand prosperity..we always thing it's money..so will sow our last and get sometimes get highly disappointed because the "prophesy" didn't come to past. And yes, God does give us all gifts, idea, and inventions ( this is mentioned in the book of Proverbs) yet, the question that always that must asked is benefiting others ? or it is only benefiting me ?
I am using this as an example..JB requested of her partners and those who went to her website to sow a seed to rebuild the threshing floor..so, that she could pray for them ? Now how many of those people who would have sowed that money would have ever seen or used that threshing floor..yet, the only thing that they could have received from sowing their last for some, and for giving until it hurt, and the other amts was prayer. I will come back to later..because it's getting than I thought it would be..
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Post by anointed on Nov 9, 2007 13:24:10 GMT -5
I feel as long as you give your tithes and offerings, then all the extra fundraising efforts shouldn't be a command for you but rather something voluntarily done (with wisdom of course). Don't ever feel because a prophetic word is hung over a particular offering, then that mean you MUST give or else you won't be blessed. Away with this "give to get" concept but what about "I give because I see a need." Whatever happened to God you don't have to promise me nothing to give because I know you'll supply my needs regardless when I take care of your work. It's just that simple. Don't feel condemnation during an offering call (Lawd, that substitutes the "altar" call) LOL!
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Post by stillfocused on Nov 9, 2007 13:40:11 GMT -5
Anointed..all that is understood !! Yet, it's the scheming to get the light bill paid, to get the money to pay the speaker, and all that other madness. I had heard sow your rent if you have to..or God, told me that you are to bless this ministry when you get you settlement..people get damaged becaue they sincerely trust that Lord has spoken the prophet.
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) 
I am not interested in what they have, what they make and what they do with the money they make. It is not my business, especially if I am NOT apart of their ministry and not giving into their ministry.
and they are Fund-mental-lists, they take a list of preachers' funds, and inventory of what they have. 