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Post by ybrown on Aug 9, 2005 15:10:29 GMT -5
The terminology "hardness of heart" offends some and makes others think this is something that doesn't apply to them.
We should be blessed to see the supernatural power of God manifest, but we shouldn't be shocked. If you relate easier to the natural realm and its problems than you do to the supernatural realm and its miracles, you have a hardened heart. If it doesn't shock you not to get your prayers answered, but it does shock you if your prayers are answered, you have a hardened heart.
Always expect to see miracles and God's supernatural power manifest in your life.
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Post by MsKayLander on Aug 9, 2005 15:26:23 GMT -5
I don't think that is what it means, but I am going to research it out. No good thing will he withhold from those who walk upright before him. I don't view a prayer answered as a miracle. Raising folks from the dead, restoring blinded eyes, deaf hearing again... those are miracles... not your bills getting paid or the eviction notice overturned... I don't view those as miracles... maybe I'm wrong, but hey... it's early....
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Post by Jasmine on Aug 9, 2005 16:04:56 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying missk, but i can also look at it from the perspective that if you have no clue on how your bill was paid, yet it was paid, thats a miracle! Because God thought enough about you and your unpaid bill, to have some one pay it in secret and not disclose it to you.
Hyper Dictionary define Miracle as: [n] a marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of God [n] any amazing or wonderful occurrence
So the latter would suggest that an unpaid bill by an unknown source, or individual, is an amazing or wonderful occurance.
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Post by ybrown on Aug 9, 2005 16:47:05 GMT -5
That's trivializing God's works and I think Jesus would disagree that answered prayers are not miracles. I don't think think it takes more effort on God's part to raise someone from the dead than it does for Him to pay someone's bills when they don't know how they're going to get paid. I'm a witness to that.
So you don't see feeding 5,000 people with 5 barley loaves and 2 fish as a miracle? Actually that miracle was an answer to Jesus' prayer as He prayed to His heavenly Father before distributing the food. When Lazarus was raised from the dead, again that was an answer to Jesus' prayer. After He commanded Lazarus to rise, John 11:41-42 says: 41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
Answered prayers are or can be miracles because they come from the Father.
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Post by giantsdodie on Aug 10, 2005 11:26:55 GMT -5
Shocked nope.. I serve a Supernatural God who does Supernatural things all the time. Thankful Yes... Joyous Yes.. Surprised.. nope.. In fact I am EXPECTANT... stuff you expect shouldnt surpise you
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Post by endure4him on Aug 10, 2005 13:56:18 GMT -5
Never shocked... Very expectant and always blessed at the Awesomeness of His mighty hand!!!!
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Post by MsKayLander on Aug 11, 2005 6:37:40 GMT -5
All is based on faith though and if you have faith to believe... I don't see where that would be a miracle perse. When He blessed the bread and broke it, He believed it would be enough. When I prayed that I would not lose my house, I acted on my faith and believed that it would be done. I don't think it was a miracle that it was done.. faith doesn't need anything to hold on to... Again, I may be wrong... but that is what I feel.... not discounting anything that Jesus did or continues to do.... I'm just not shocked when my prayers are answered. I think those that don't know Jesus would feel it was a miracle, those that do know Him would know that was faith in action....
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Post by ybrown on Aug 11, 2005 9:55:00 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying, so maybe this is a better explanation that actually supports what you're conveying.
I agree that what you had was not a miracle. It can probably be better classified as special providence.
This is the way one theologian explains special providences, which I actually agree with:
"(special providences) are special combinations in the order of events, as in the answer to prayer, in deliverance out of trouble, and in all instances in which grace and help come in critical circumstances. God's hand is "visible" in a sense to Christians who have watched all the pieces to one or more of life's puzzles fall into place in a very special way."
In your situation, although God was involved in a special way, the laws of nature weren't transcended and that's why you don't see the event as a miracle.
That same theologian says this about miracles:
"(they) are supernatural in origin, transcend or violate natural laws, and serve a revelatory function in God's redemptive work. Here the hand of God is clearly visible to anyone who doesn't deliberately refuse to believe. The event is contrary to the normal course of nature; no scientific explanation is possible. Of a purported miracle, we might ask this question: Is it impossible that the event could have taken place without God's special intervention to alter the inevitable course of nature?"
Now using these differentiations as guides, feeding five thousand plus people with only enough food that in the natural feeds 1- 3 people, I'd say is a miracle. Without God's intervention, it would not have happened. Plus they had leftovers!
Even in my own testimony of almost losing a home, I can’t classify what happened to save my situation as nothing other than a miracle because NOTHING in that situation was good and absolutely the events would NOT have happened if God had not intervened and altered what was so clearly and naturally inevitable. God had to touch a countless number of people and put favor on everything and everyone involved in order for His plan to masterfully work from start to finish. It was truly supernatural.
Whether you classify an event as a miracle or special providence, it is still the result of faith and prayer. Just to tie this in with my original post, no matter how we classify the events that God orchestrates, we should always be in "expecting mode" and when things do happen, not be surprised because that's just how a blessed life should be.
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Post by keita on Aug 11, 2005 15:42:18 GMT -5
To me, whenever God moves, it's always something of a miracle so I wouldn't say that I'm (at least not very often) "shocked" by that happening. I am frequently surprised by how He moves and always awed that He does. I know that God can truly (and, I believe, quite intentionally) leave us speechless. In times like those, I do find myself wondering, like that perfectly humbling question, "What is man that thou art mindful of him?" and a lot of "uh-uh-uh".
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