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Post by auneeqsol on Apr 16, 2006 23:29:29 GMT -5
Okay someone questioned me about this. It was on their mind and they just asked about it.
Well what do you say? Because his grace is sufficient then that means one that commits suicide is still covered? And what about one's salvation being secure..even in suicide?
What do yall think? Is God really and truly understanding in that situation? I mean everyday we dont confess every sin we have commited no way and God still has mercy upon us as believers....so what about one who commits suicide and has not a chance to confess everything...isnt that the same?
What do you think?
And if you can along with your opinion/comment can you try and post scripture in where it is permitted/prohibited
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Post by auneeqsol on Apr 16, 2006 23:30:51 GMT -5
By that last part I meant to where Suicide is permitted/prohibited.
And also if blasphemy of the HS is the only unpardonable sin, then where does that make suicide unpardonable?
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Post by stillfocused on Apr 17, 2006 1:12:41 GMT -5
I know of only 2 accounts in the Bible where suicide was committed. One incident was with Saul found in I 31:4 and Judas which is found in Matt. 27:5. These men were tormented, and felt hopeless in what they were dealing at the moment they decided to take their own lives. John 10:10 speaks of life more abundantly. Yet, I have not found in the Bible where it says that suicide is of God or not. The argument could be the same as the one used for abortion.
And because suicide is something not discussed in the body of Christ..we very often miss the subtle warning signs or the lack of warning signs. Please seek the Lord on how to answer this person; because very well be that a life hangs in the balance. Suicide is not of God..it a big lie of the enemy..just talk to someone who has attempted suicide and you may just hear " I thought that's what God wanted me to do"..
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Post by ybrown on Apr 17, 2006 8:58:00 GMT -5
The bible actually records, some say four, others, seven, different suicides, but whether a person commits suicide is not what determines if he/she goes to heaven. The bible is clear that its the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
If an unsaved person commits suicide, the only thing he's done is expedite his journey to the lake of fire; and he'll end up there for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he committed suicide.
But the bigger picture here is when a person, saved or unsaved, kills himself, what he's done is taken the decision about when he is to leave this earth, away from God. He played god in his own life, and that idea alone should bother a believer that's contemplating taking his life.
We serve a good and merciful God and according to His Word, ultimately, suicide isn't what determines where we spend eternity; salvation through Christ does.
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Post by Nikkol on Apr 17, 2006 9:03:01 GMT -5
Samson also committed suicide.
In scripture, we find the commandment "Thou shall not kill" this can infer to killing others, or yourself.
It is important that one is careful about how to speak to a person that may be contemplating suicide. Many times they have lost hope and their focus. Instead of focusing on Jesus knowing that he will give you (general) joy and therefore you will be strengthened, they focus on the issues/problems. We serve a MIGHTY and powerful God. We are told to magnify God, ie make big our God. However, if one magnifies their problems, it begins to seem that their problem is bigger than God. Those that are saved need to once again turn to magnifying God and those who are unsaved need to see their need for a Saviour which will push them to magnify God.
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Post by livinganewlife on Apr 17, 2006 9:08:37 GMT -5
By that last part I meant to where Suicide is permitted/prohibited. And also if blasphemy of the HS is the only unpardonable sin, then where does that make suicide unpardonable? An unpardonable sin, is the sin of unbelief.............If a person don't believe then one can't be redeemed......... |
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Post by krazeeboi on Apr 18, 2006 1:13:26 GMT -5
Ybrown, you said it.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Apr 18, 2006 10:03:41 GMT -5
Very good response, Ybrown!
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Post by auneeqsol on Apr 19, 2006 18:02:03 GMT -5
Hmmm got the wheels turnin in ya heads huh?
LOL...its funny how KB comes on sometimes just to confirm whether a person "gots it" or is "on it" and then he leaves...LOL
But anyway, like ybrown said tho, the only thing that has any bearings on one's going to heaven is if one has accepted the Lord Jesus as their personal saviour.
Now in the account of Samson, I truly believe that he was accepted by God in death, only because he prayed for God to give him the strength to be able to rid the land of the wicked. And he killed more ppl in his death than when he was alive, but it was only by the power of God that he could do it. God permitted it, he gave him the power to do so, would God give someone power to do wrong? Killing and one being killed in this story is sort of like being in the military, your job is to fight, with weapons etc. You might have to give your life just to save another (civilian, fellow soldier) Samson was a judge at that time, he did the least he could do to provide peace for the ppl.
But that brings up another question....What part does confession play in one committing suicide?
It is told to us , if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us......so how does that tie in together?
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Post by krazeeboi on Apr 21, 2006 17:34:58 GMT -5
As I always say about that passage, read it in context; the verses that preceed and proceed that passage bring the whole thing together.
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Post by auneeqsol on Apr 22, 2006 1:04:06 GMT -5
Okay so what's the bottom line?
What do you believe that the scriptures are saying concerning this?
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Post by krazeeboi on Apr 22, 2006 14:46:14 GMT -5
That it is not just confession of sins that gives cleansing, but also walking in the light and the intercessory ministry of Jesus Christ. Also, I believe that the cleansing referred to in the passage is for the purpose of sanctification (specifically fellowship), not justification. It is due to our justified status that we have access to these means of cleansing in the first place--which is why it is wholly incorrect to apply 1 John 1:9 in an evangelistic context. John wasn't talking to sinners, he was talking to saints.
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Post by auneeqsol on Apr 23, 2006 21:23:01 GMT -5
Okay so how can you tie that into the discussion about suicide?
And how confession is important concerning one who has committed suicide, the fact that they can't confess thier sins no more.
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Post by krazeeboi on Apr 24, 2006 21:29:58 GMT -5
We have committed a logical fallacy if we take 1 John 1:9 to mean that confession of sin is the ONLY method whereby we may receive cleansing from sin (and remember, it's not cleansing for justification, it's cleansing for sanctification). As I've pointed out, the context shows us THREE different methods. As for the suicide of the saint, I believe that is covered by the intercessory ministry of Jesus Christ. And if ANYBODY knows how to get a prayer though, Jesus does.
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Post by auneeqsol on Apr 26, 2006 23:15:02 GMT -5
Okay KB you dancin all around what i'm lookin for.....
So what is it, what are you saying? Are you saying that suicide is even under the blood for a believer? Are you saying that grace is sufficient for that?
Come on now, make it reaaaal plain
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