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Post by stillfocused on Jun 1, 2006 21:21:01 GMT -5
In light of a response given in one of the current threads. I decided to ask the question that has been on my mind for quite sometime. Some months ago while going through a trial and being taught a great lesson at the same time. I asked myself a question why are so many believers leaving the church and not returning and whose responsible for this falling away of so many believers..Is it the believer whose been hurt and severely wounded ? Is it the leaders within the local churches ? Somehow you know that enemy has his hand in the mix..but, he's not totally responsible. The Holy Spirit let me know that there would be a great falling away of many..we call it Apostosy. And I was directed to read the Jude. And I am just now reminded that because the love of many would grow wax cold; that this would occur. Leaders blame the stray sheep; who it seems after leaving the institutionalized church wander for many years; go from place to place, yet, never to seeming the place that would bring the healing they so desperately need. The stray sheep blame the Pastors or some leader at the local assembly; who seem to have an attitude of "they weren't submitted to leadership", and that the stray sheep was gone; and labeled a "troublemaker". Let them go..somehow forgetting that life and death is in the power of the tongue and they instead of choosing to bless them..they have utter curses. Seemingly, even though walking in the truth of love and the love of God is what we are commanded to do..it's sorely missing. What all of this mean when we are told to obey those who have watch over our souls and seems that they are not concerned about the souls of men or their own ? Do we really have the heart of the Father concerning this; as we have a part to play in building the kingdom of God ? Have you lost sight of the things that are important to the Father ? Has your love grown cold ?
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Post by krazeeboi on Jun 1, 2006 21:24:56 GMT -5
Do you mean "Falling Away"?  |
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 1, 2006 21:32:29 GMT -5
Thank you..
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Post by nina on Jun 2, 2006 4:04:26 GMT -5
I know that the question is "Who is responsible" - and I don't mean to derail the thread from the start - however there is something that I would like to mention: There is a lot more to say what I have come to call "the experience of the lost sheep". You touched on this very accurately. My questions would be: - lost to whom? - lost to what? IMHO I think that it is very sad that many have come to call a "lost sheep" one who - for any reason - stops attending church and I contend that they are not lost to The Church. Beyond the distress caused by the carnal judgement endured by the soul of one labeled as such, our Sheperd, Jesus, never loses sight of His sheep. It is important - and I am not saying that you don't - to recognise the hand of God himself in all that occurs and that, unfortunately, we are able to understand and acknowledge only in hindsight. While supposedly "lost" as far as others are concerned, the sheep does keep crying out to the Shepherd and the Sheperd hears, and the Shepherd lets her know that He's near and coming for her. Because, as much as we like to say His sheep know his voice, so does the Shepherd know His sheep... There would be a lot to say also about the time between when the sheep falls out of sight and the time when the Shepherd finally appears... with the sheep in His arms... It's a fact that we like to give names and labels to everything, and sometimes, all of a sudden, it becomes just another word or even worst, poetic... I read a little while ago that the greatest challenge for Moses, during the forty years of "wilderness", was to teach the children of Israel to not depend on him - because he knew he would not be with them always - but on God, that they too could go to Him on their own and for themselves, that they all individually and collectively had received His word and could, so to speak, act on it as His people, His children. Most of all, because it was God's desire for them to always come to Him, because His name was/is on them. I believe that the time of Ezekiel's prophecy has come and we are beginning to see the signs. Ezekiel 34: 8. As I live, says the Lord God, I swear that because My flocks have become a prey, for My flocks have become food for all the beasts of the field because they have no shepherd, and My shepherds did not search for My flocks, and the shepherds shepherded themselves but they did not shepherd My flocks. 9. Therefore, you shepherds, hearken to the word of the Lord. 10. So said the Lord God: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I shall demand My flocks from their hands, and I shall banish them from shepherding the flocks. The shepherds will no longer shepherd themselves, and I shall rescue My flocks from their mouth, and they will not be to them for food. 11. For so said the Lord God: Behold I am here, and I shall search for My flocks and I shall seek them out. 12. As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his separated flocks, so will I seek out My flocks, and I will save them from all the places where they have scattered on a cloudy and dark day. and: 31. And you are My flocks, the flocks of My pasture, you are man; I am your God," says the Lord God. On a side note, an expression that I wish never came about and despise: "Fallen from grace"... Praise the Lord eternally for JESUS! |
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Post by Nikkol on Jun 2, 2006 8:18:14 GMT -5
This is also a good scripture to use:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth F5 that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be d**ned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Post by Beck on Jun 2, 2006 12:21:45 GMT -5
This is also a good scripture to use: 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth F5 that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be d**ned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. thats heavy.... |
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 3, 2006 8:53:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the scripture..yet, this is not something I am going at that this time. And I have found that if someone is in that valley they don't want to hear any scripture; they don't want to hear the words " come go to church with me"...yes, he will bring to them to a place of safety, and yes, he will feed us himself when one walks through that valley. This has nothing to do with the leaders or the scattered sheep..yet, it has everything to with the love of God and how we extend ourselves past our hurts, our wounded feelings, our bitterness, and etc to walk in the love of the Christ..and do as I have heard a sister say "extend the olive branch".
In doing so, saying that we have been crushed and pressed to have to the anointing and the love of Christ flow from our hearts that we apply the Healing Balm of Gilead to those who are hurting..both leaders and the sheep to ensure that they come to truly the healing power of Jesus Christ. All manner of sickness has to do with what lies under the outer appearance; and how we handle hurts, injury by others, and those offenses against our persons. And love is the only thing that will bring healing to a wounded soul..we know that for some it will occur..yet, for some does it really ? And by the way..they are not always lost...yet, they have just walked away....
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Post by ybrown on Jun 5, 2006 16:35:04 GMT -5
In order to "fall away" from something, you had to have been attached to it in the first place.
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 5, 2006 20:00:02 GMT -5
YBrown..I am not understanding your comment.
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Post by ybrown on Jun 6, 2006 11:58:59 GMT -5
YBrown..I am not understanding your comment. Some can easily fall away because they may not have been attached to Him in the first place. |
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Post by auneeqsol on Jun 9, 2006 9:56:08 GMT -5
I know that the question is "Who is responsible" - and I don't mean to derail the thread from the start - however there is something that I would like to mention: There is a lot more to say what I have come to call "the experience of the lost sheep". You touched on this very accurately. My questions would be: - lost to whom? - lost to what? IMHO I think that it is very sad that many have come to call a "lost sheep" one who - for any reason - stops attending church and I contend that they are not lost to The Church. Beyond the distress caused by the carnal judgement endured by the soul of one labeled as such, our Sheperd, Jesus, never loses sight of His sheep. It is important - and I am not saying that you don't - to recognise the hand of God himself in all that occurs and that, unfortunately, we are able to understand and acknowledge only in hindsight. While supposedly "lost" as far as others are concerned, the sheep does keep crying out to the Shepherd and the Sheperd hears, and the Shepherd lets her know that He's near and coming for her. Because, as much as we like to say His sheep know his voice, so does the Shepherd know His sheep... There would be a lot to say also about the time between when the sheep falls out of sight and the time when the Shepherd finally appears... with the sheep in His arms... It's a fact that we like to give names and labels to everything, and sometimes, all of a sudden, it becomes just another word or even worst, poetic... I read a little while ago that the greatest challenge for Moses, during the forty years of "wilderness", was to teach the children of Israel to not depend on him - because he knew he would not be with them always - but on God, that they too could go to Him on their own and for themselves, that they all individually and collectively had received His word and could, so to speak, act on it as His people, His children. Most of all, because it was God's desire for them to always come to Him, because His name was/is on them. I believe that the time of Ezekiel's prophecy has come and we are beginning to see the signs. Ezekiel 34: 8. As I live, says the Lord God, I swear that because My flocks have become a prey, for My flocks have become food for all the beasts of the field because they have no shepherd, and My shepherds did not search for My flocks, and the shepherds shepherded themselves but they did not shepherd My flocks. 9. Therefore, you shepherds, hearken to the word of the Lord. 10. So said the Lord God: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I shall demand My flocks from their hands, and I shall banish them from shepherding the flocks. The shepherds will no longer shepherd themselves, and I shall rescue My flocks from their mouth, and they will not be to them for food. 11. For so said the Lord God: Behold I am here, and I shall search for My flocks and I shall seek them out. 12. As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his separated flocks, so will I seek out My flocks, and I will save them from all the places where they have scattered on a cloudy and dark day. and: 31. And you are My flocks, the flocks of My pasture, you are man; I am your God," says the Lord God. On a side note, an expression that I wish never came about and despise: "Fallen from grace"... Praise the Lord eternally for JESUS! That was "awesome" in itself, the way you elaborated on the "lost sheep". It's true his sheep know his voice and he knows theirs, when leaders forget about the sheep and leave them on the side of the road to die, God will bear them up in his arms and nurse them back to health. And mentioning some ppl leaving churches and leaders calling them "lost" and them having a vagabond spirit, or church hoppers, the scripture did say, my sheep know MY voice and a stranger they will not follow. That just lets me know If it dont sound like God , I dont have to follow, because once you follow , you can be lead down a crooked path, and with all the curves and stuff, you are bound to get "lost"...lol |
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Post by krazeeboi on Jun 11, 2006 19:36:02 GMT -5
Who cares? There's no hell, and for those who are going, they'll get to stay for a spell (being "purged" and "purified") then cruise on in to heaven--if you believe some of the anti-scriptural sentiment floating around on this messageboard, that is.
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Post by nina on Jun 12, 2006 2:30:59 GMT -5
God cares, and God loves... Let's be as relentless in loving each other as He is in loving us. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Jun 12, 2006 8:16:50 GMT -5
Ulimately if WE fall away. Then WE are responsible.
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Post by auneeqsol on Jun 12, 2006 9:52:38 GMT -5
Yeah GDD that's true....without excuse
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