How do you know if you've been given over?

[krazeeboi]

g3 said:

Homosexuality in the church, choir and pulpit (quite a few are surpressing their reality because of non-practicing but they are not delivered and in their imagination they are decieved).

G3, would you mind elaborating on this point? You make it sound as though suppressing this desire is somehow wrong, but isn't that the case with anything else? Isn't the first step on the path to deliverance abstinence? In my opinion, God honors this on the part of those who are struggling with this and sincerely desire to please Him. While the attraction is unnatural, as far as I can tell according to scripture, the sin comes in when that attraction is acted upon. In other words, there is no sin in being tempted, but as the old song says, it is YIELDING to that temptation that is sin.

[G3]

I believe the bible. I believe the power of the bible and the Holy Spirit. I believe in salvation and deliverence. I am a deliverence minister. I know what it means when one hunger and thirst and the promise of fulfillment. I know what it means to delight one's self in Lord and to receives the heart's desire. I believe the bible that when one come as a child He will in no way cast out or add sorrow. I believe in the mind transformation through the word of God that will lead too the conforming too Yeshua image.

We are created with desires. Desires are a gift from the Father in order to allow His creations to enjoy the provisions He has for them. Desires are truths from the the Father. The enemy is a perverter of truth. Because of the lack of hunger and the thirst (not too be confused with desperation) for His word of God but rather a contentment too conform too traditions and religion it is no wonder that in the church we have so many who are in secret struggles and consumed with a dark passion that has held them in bondage. Because of this "New Way" christianity the pulpits and pews are powerless in demonstrations of the Holy Ghost. They use the name of Yeshua as cliche and relies not on the Blood and the word of their testimony in the power of the Holy Ghost in the name of Yeshua, but rather mainly on support groups and water down dvd and books. So we try to shout it out. Fast it out. Pray it out. Conference it out. Give it out. Dance it out. Sing it out. And agree it out. But that thing is still there. That thorn in the flesh. How can God be so cruel and allow this thing that is an abomination and a sprewing too the Father and at the same time play a mind trip on the slave and judge him even in his quest for deliverence while all alone the Master holds the keys? It's not the Father, it's the slave. It's the slave's lack of knowledge. It's the slave's lack of hunger and thirst. I believe when the attitude of heart is right one can walk right out of their firey furnace without being singed or the hint of smell of smoke on them. I believe in the snap of the finger instantaneous biblical deliverence from the sins and weigths that so easily besets us.

As long as there is the Deciever and his cohorts there will always be temptations and testings. But the Word of God, Holy Spirit and the Almigthy does not adhere too this continual inner struggle of sins and weigths that consumes and torments the Christians because of what He has already provided for deliverence. Maybe what He has provided isn't powerful enough. Hmmm!? As for me, I believe that the salvation through the Lamb of God and the Word and the Holy Ghost that the divine order is set in order where as that which acted contrary too nature will desire that of the opposit gender love and enjoyment. That's the type of salvation I walk in. The Bible Way.

[krazeeboi]

I don't want to be misunderstood: I believe in deliverance. I believe in supernatural, instantaneous deliverances, healings, and miracles. However, we must grapple with the fact that not all have been or will be delivered or healed, for whatever reason. If that deliverance or healing doesn't manifest, what does that mean? Does that mean the person who's struggling with some sin or suffering from some sickness is deceived or lost? I dare say not. I wouldn't even say that it necessarily means that the person doesn't have faith, even though that's what many have erroneously been taught. But for the one who does what he/she knows to do in the meantime, submits himself/herself to the will of God, and simply waits upon the Lord, I believe God is honored by that in and of itself, and I wouldn't call that person deceived in any way. The deception comes in when one believes that it's pleasing in the sight of God to continuously and habitually yield to temptation.

[G3]

I totally agree with you Krazee and we must except the fact and not try too defend God (as if He needs our advocation) when we are faced with an mystery such as when a faithful and true goes without a healing or deliverence when the thing that is to be delivered from is not a root of sin. But when the thing that is to be delivered from is a root of sin and a abomination then the focus is not on a Just God but the seeker of the deliverence. What is in question here is the attitude of heart of the seeker not the will of the Father. We will continually be faced with the Luke 4:25-27 mysteries. But what is dear too the Father's heart is when the seeker of the deliverence heart's attitude is on the equal plain as the 3 Hebrew Boys when with great conviction they shouted to the king "BUT IF NOT!" knowing that God is well abled to deliver them they refused too compromise!

The deception comes in when one believes that it's pleasing in the sight of God to continuously and habitually yield to temptation.

And that is the repobation

[krazeeboi]

I agree.

[Wanna be His child]

So would someone who was given over know that there was no hope for them or would they keep trying over and over again to get into the kingdom but only recieve the rejection of God and don't know it
The reason for my question is that I feel like I have been given over by God. I cannot seem to get delivered from my sinful past. I was once saved but became backsliden some time after and lived a vile life which was mostly of a sexually illicit nature. Even though I have recommitted my life back to God a few years ago, I still struggle with that lifestyle a great deal and wonder if the reason I can't break free is because God just won't deliver me cause He's given me over, I am just not one of His anymore.

[krazeeboi]

celeste said:

So would someone who was given over know that there was no hope for them or would they keep trying over and over again to get into the kingdom but only recieve the rejection of God and don't know it
The reason for my question is that I feel like I have been given over by God. I cannot seem to get delivered from my sinful past. I was once saved but became backsliden some time after and lived a vile life which was mostly of a sexually illicit nature. Even though I have recommitted my life back to God a few years ago, I still struggle with that lifestyle a great deal and wonder if the reason I can't break free is because God just won't deliver me cause He's given me over, I am just not one of His anymore.

"All whom My Father gives (entrusts) to Me will come to Me; and the one who comes to Me I will most certainly not cast out ." (John 6:37, Amplified Bible)

"But without faith it is impossible to please and be satisfactory to Him. For whoever would come near to God must [necessarily] believe that God exists and that He is the rewarder of those who earnestly and diligently seek Him [out]." (Hebrews 11:6)

"Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them." (Hebrews 7:25)

If you were given over, you wouldn't even have a DESIRE to be delivered. God wants to be your Deliverer.

Allow me to ask you, are you accountable to a mature, seasoned saint of God as far as this struggle is concerned? This is vitally important.

[giantsdodie]

If you were given over, you wouldn't even have a DESIRE to be delivered. God wants to be your Deliverer.

Exactly. The very fact that you desire to be delivered is proof positive that you have not been given over. The fact that you are aware of sin and desire to change is proof that you have not been given over. Many of us struggle from time to time with many different things, some for years but GOD is deliverer !!!!

[G3]

WBHC,

It boils down too the attitude of heart. How hungry are you for the spiritual things of the Father? Are you in pursuit of His Word and dilligently seek fellowship with Him daily? Do you attend too His word or give His word intimate fewllowship? The Godhead (Father, The Word and Holy Spirit), is the desire a priority and a delight in your daily life? Is there an overwhelming thirst for the presence that only the Godhead can satisfy? If the answer is yes than that is evidence that you are not turned over.

But we must examine Esau and his rejection. The author of Hebrews would have never while under the unctioning of the Holy Spirit addressed this matter and be conclusive if all that it took was a desire. In great tears he sought restoration but was denied of his father. Why? The attitude of heart It's more than being sorry for a sin, but a pursuit of Him who saves too the uttermost.

[abundanceofpraise]

giantsdodie said:

From the perspective of The Bible, a reprobate is someone who refuses to make good use of the understanding of the Word of God provided to them, "these also resist the Truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith." (2 Timothy 3:8 KJV). Reprobate is used to translate the originate Greek word of the New Testament, pronounced, ad-ock-ee-mos, meaning rejected i.e. those who reject the Word of God will be rejected by God's Word in due time, as made plain by the Word of God (John 1:1,14), Jesus Christ: "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings has a judge; the Word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day." (John 12:48 RSV)

Reprobates know better, but they don't do better, they "hold the Truth in unrighteousness":

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the Truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the Truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." (Romans 1:18-32 KJV)


The reprobate is one that KNOWS what is right to do and KNOWS what is God's word and God's law AND His standard of holiness and righteousness but REFUSES to do it or change the life to line up with God's word, his will or his way. Essentially what they have done is reject God and His word to the point where God knows that they will NOT change and then HE in turn rejects them

IN all honesty a person given over to a reporbate mind would even CARE if they were given over.

OMG Giant what wisdom!!!! I wondered this very thing, this is one of my greatest fear is that will turn me over to reprobate mind....................I just watched a movie about King David and it went allllllll the way back to King Saul, and God Gave him specific instructions but He Continued to disobey God over and over again so finally God had to sent Samuel out to anoint another King over Isreal. Well it said that God withdrew his spirit from Saul and He was tormented by evil spirits. is this the sort of stuff that happens when God turns you over to a reprobate mind?
Cause alote of time the enemy might have us soooooooo blinded that we cant see what is going on....