How do you know if you've been given over?

[Wanna be His child]

This is really a two-part question:
You know how the bible says that God gives people over to reprobate minds, what does it mean to be given over?
And how does one know if they've been given over?

[giantsdodie]

From the perspective of The Bible, a reprobate is someone who refuses to make good use of the understanding of the Word of God provided to them, "these also resist the Truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith." (2 Timothy 3:8 KJV). Reprobate is used to translate the originate Greek word of the New Testament, pronounced, ad-ock-ee-mos, meaning rejected i.e. those who reject the Word of God will be rejected by God's Word in due time, as made plain by the Word of God (John 1:1,14), Jesus Christ: "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings has a judge; the Word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day." (John 12:48 RSV)

Reprobates know better, but they don't do better, they "hold the Truth in unrighteousness":

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the Truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."
"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the Truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet."

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." (Romans 1:18-32 KJV)


The reprobate is one that KNOWS what is right to do and KNOWS what is God's word and God's law AND His standard of holiness and righteousness but REFUSES to do it or change the life to line up with God's word, his will or his way. Essentially what they have done is reject God and His word to the point where God knows that they will NOT change and then HE in turn rejects them

IN all honesty a person given over to a reporbate mind would even CARE if they were given over.

[krazeeboi]

Right. They know the truth but suppress it.

[auneeqsol]

Hmmm I was thinkin that it was one who insists on doing their own thing not regarding God or his word. Well basically along the lines of what you all said. And mind you this person is not ignorant of the word of God, and I believe they understand the word of God but choose to do the opposite of what it says.

So does it mean to have an apostate mind?

And can one be restored if they are reprobate?
what about apostate?

[krazeeboi]

They most certainly can.

[giantsdodie]

auneeqsol said:

Hmmm I was thinkin that it was one who insists on doing their own thing not regarding God or his word. Well basically along the lines of what you all said. And mind you this person is not ignorant of the word of God, and I believe they understand the word of God but choose to do the opposite of what it says.

So does it mean to have an apostate mind?

And can one be restored if they are reprobate?
what about apostate?

Apostate Yes
Reprobate No

Apostate

One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.

This is a matter of believing or faith and one can choose to believe again and accept God's word as the truth and abide by it.

Reprobate

Rejected by God and without hope of salvation

The person who is reprobate has been rejected by GOD. When you are rejected by God no hope for salvation.

[auneeqsol]

I thought it was the other way around, with a reprobate mind you can be restored but with an apostate mind you can't. Your conscience is seared.

The "great falling away" is considered those that have gone apostate. They have abandoned their faith. Thats not as simple as someone backsliding or just being worldly, they have been deceived and have forsaken the faith (in this sense the christian faith)
Here are some scriptures:

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving; for then it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer." (1 Timothy 4:1-5 RSV)

"But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people." (2 Timothy 3:1-5 RSV)

"For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8 RSV)

Apostasy isn't a simple matter of sin by human weakness it's a deliberate, unrepentant rejection of the Truth by someone who became fully aware of it. It is the defiant falling away from Christianity by someone who had been a converted member of the faith. (in this sense)

A reprobate person (IMO) has time to get things together before their hears are just turned away from truth totally.

But I could be wrong about it, thats just what I always thought.

[giantsdodie]

You have to clearly understand what it means when one is considered reprobate.

It means that GOD has rejected them. It means that GOD will no accept them. It means they have absolutely no hope of savlation. God will NOT receive them in any form or fashion. There judgement is set even while they are alive. They live. They die. Next Stop HELL.

Thats what the word reprobate means.

[krazeeboi]

^That describes all of us before salvation, you know.

[auneeqsol]

That's what i was saying, the average sinner is in that state, or I could go as far as to say some ppl i know will tell you , I dont care if I go to hell, im doing my thing....Oh well I will have to suffer....they have said things like that, now they know good and well they care, they just are living for the moment. But that's a brief description of ppl who are not ready to be saved as well.

[giantsdodie]

Actually this does not describe anyone pre-sa;vation. If that was truly the case then I could not be a saved christian today. The sinner is not necessarily one that God has REJECTED. Sinners that have not been rejected can accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Those who are reprobate cannot. They have no hope of salvation whatsoever. They are like the son of perdition. Lost and doomed to hell. God has rejected them and they will NOT receive salvation ever. This isnt simply because they wont receive Him as Lord ( which is the case with most sinners ). It is because GOD doesnt want them. They have refused Him and His law to the point where HE in turn rejects them. They CANNOT be saved. The sinner CAN be saved. The reprobate CANNOT.

Reprobation ismt so much a mindset or belief system. Its GOD rejecting someone permanently. Thats why we cant ever call someone reprobate until GOD calls them reprobate.

[krazeeboi]

GDD, I'm going to have to disagree with you based on the text.

Any good commentary will inform us that Paul begins his treatise to the Romans by demonstrating how ALL of mankind stands condemned before God. Then he speaks of how specifically Gentile and Jew alike are condemned.

Now let's see exactly how a reprobate or depraved (NIV) mind comes into play here.

"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness" (Romans 1:18).

Paul goes on to tell us exactly how godless and wicked men suppress the truth:

"But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed" (Romans 2:5).

Now let's look at the reprobate and the qualities and characteristics of a reprobate/depraved mind:

"...since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them." (Romans 1:28-32)

We tend to associate the "extreme sins" as being characteristics of reprobates, but look what Paul lists: envy, murder (including with the tongue), strife, deceit, malice, gossip, slander, arrogance, pride, disobedience, ruthlessness, etc.

Notice that being given over to a reprobate or depraved mind is something done is response to the actions of men: "since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind."

This describes every man, woman, and child that has ever lived on the face of the earth, except Christ Himself. A reprobate or a depraved person is simply another term for "sinner"; it is not an "extreme sinner," as we tend to believe.

[giantsdodie]

I respect your right to disagree however your argument only makes sense if you ignore the entire meaning of the word Reprobate. The Word doesnt just mean sinner. The word means one who is REJECTED by God and has NO HOPE OF SALVATION WHATSOEVER. The issue isnt the depravity or the severity of the persons sins.

Its the stand that GOD takes toward the person because of their heart atttitude. This is not simply another sinner. The reprobate is one who has no hope of salvation. They have been rejected by God.

[krazeeboi]

Yes the word can certainly mean "rejected," but I believe that you are adding on when you say "without any means of salvation whatsoever." Now certainly I do believe that there are vessels that are "fitted for destruction," but I don't believe that's the point of this passage. As of now, it is my belief that Romans 1 is very general in nature, as it speaks of the godlessness and wickedness of mankind in general and not of one specific group. Specific groups aren't mentioned until the second chapter when Paul begins his discourse on why the Gentiles, who are without the Law, are yet condemned.

I found a pretty good article that is along the same lines of how you believe about the passage GDD but which comes to a different conclusion.

[G3]

Through fear and trembling we must possess our souls. No one has a full concept of the mind of the Creator. Paul warned us of our boast and confidence in our Christian stand. Quotes from Auneeqsol of sound doctrine is enough too cause one to "humbly and reverently", as did the high priest when he was in His, the Father's presence once a year, approach the mind of God. By doing so we dare not be so definitive and conclusive of of the mind of God. Even though we have the mind of Christ, we are yet limited in our understanding. Even in the letters of Paul there was also a "limit of knowledge" of Yeshua in regards too "all things". Saying all that to say this, can we conclusively and definitively say that the"reprobation and apostate" is "final" or "temporal"? True! Reprobation is rejection. Lukewarness is also a rejection and in this rejection there was an offer of repentence

At one point we all had apostated at some point in our christian walk whether by ignorance or with knowledge (thank God for for 1 John 1:9). An apostate is the first step too reprobation. Of the six churches in revelation that "fallen away" because of the "lack of their first love" or tolerance of that what is contrary", there is a portion of those churches in the majority of the church today. No opinion but fact. With those facts do I see a reprobation? Most definitly! Has the Father rejected that portion of reprobation? Most definitly! Is His hand out stretched still? Most definitly!

The question of the thread is "How does one knows is his or her mind is reprobated" is yet open. A apostate is no different than that of a "backslider", he or she has "distanced themselves from God. a Reprobate, in his or her mind will act contrary too the word but yet will justify themselves regardless too what the Father had commanded. They will justify themselves with deep conviction. Case in point. Homosexuality in the church, choir and pulpit (quite a few are surpressing their reality because of non-practicing but they are not delivered and in their imagination they are decieved). Same sex marriage that's being debated amongst professed christians. Co-habitating with non-married professed christians. The violation of the divine order of nature in the Church. One of the signs that there is a reprobation is when one's conviction is not settled in the word and their justification too continue in the reprobation is that the "Father is sovereign and He can do what He wants". God is souvereign but He acts and function solely on His immutable word and He will not violate His for no one, not even the Son.