Were church standards Useful? What about the word?

[auneeqsol]

Okay I know that some of us were raised in the church "ole skool" with standards and rules and the do's and dont's of being saved...I have to admit some rules were tooooo extreme and some were to help, some were not even biblical by a nose and some were, (sometimes void of the proper interpretation) But for the most standards were put there to keep us saved so to speak and HOLY...lol but I thank God for my "holiness" foundation.

Okay I have a question. If a person committed fornication or adultery and the church found out about it, of course back in the day you were sat down for a period of time. In my church you had to repent before the whole church and then you got sat down for a period, but I was asking what exactly does the word say about disciplinary actions taken concerning those caught in sin, or that were ensnared in sin?

Now there is a difference to me between one being "caught" in sin, or when one confesses they sinned to the pastor or "mothers" or fellow saint, and they are godly sorrowful about it and is in need of counseling. Now what should the consequences be for those ppl? And how should their attitude be ? Should they just resume duties as normal because they have been forgiven by God? Or should they be sat down?

I know of a situation where there is a lady (35 yrs old) been in the church, saved for bout 11 yrs working in the church close to the pastor, has been married for bout 9 yrs but is seperated from husband but wants to move on in life, brings a friend to church to fellowship and get deeper in the word, commits adultery with the friend and ends up pregnant. Now her attitude around church is like "look at me i'm in delicate condition" (mind you she has always wanted children but never had them by her husband).
I'm wondering should she be sat down for a season to regroup and get herself together, or just be accepted as her being forgiven by God and continue to work on in the ministry as usual?

I know how the "ole saints" would handle it but how should this be handled according to the word?

Were they right to sit ppl down, and not let them praise the Lord or sing in the choir, or testify? What about Romans 8:1? If one has confessed and been forgiven their sin has been forgotten right? or wrong?

So whadda ya say??

[stillfocused]

The sin is forgiven...yet, it this scenerio reminds me of the actions of the Corinthians in I Cor chapter 5. And Paul just let them know " what for and how". She should be asked to resign from her position. Because her actions are saying it's okay to do this..even if it goes against the very thing that is in the Word of God.

[krazeeboi]

There should definitely be a period of chastisement, whether the person was caught (and truly repentant) or confessed on his/her own accord. I would guess that the specifics surrounding that period would depend on the severity of the sin, the office the person occuppied, the nature of the local church, and other issues like that. I don't think we can make any broad, sweeping recommendations here.

[auneeqsol]

yes I can agree, but I wonder why some in the church dont feel that way? They feel like if you mention things like that then you are "gossiping" or speaking negative of the ppl. They say things like well if you havent prayed for her dont come to me with that.

But she is the church financial secretary she is in charge of overseeing the money and she is secretary to some of pastor's affairs.

But for her to act casually about it I feel like there is a time of evaluating.

So let me ask you

Is it right for a pastor to say about ppl that he knows are living in sin, its not my job to MAKE ppl stop doing what they are doing , its my job to preach the word and let God do his job?

Is that compromising?

[krazeeboi]

Yes it is. One role of the church is to discipline its members. God uses the church to "do His job." That's a sorry way out (what the pastor said), but I'm not surprised since in this day and age, we're used to the "happy go lucky" preaching and are not committed to true discipleship.

[And Such Were Some Of You]

I too think that there needs to be a season to "re-group". I am like Krazee, you cannot slap the situation with a broad brush. Each situation, for each person would need to be evaluated. There is also the question of the adultery itself and if she is still involved in such an affair.

[livinganewlife]

Didn't Jesus tell the woman who was caught in the act of adultery to go and sin no more?

[And Such Were Some Of You]

livinganewlife said:

Didn't Jesus tell the woman who was caught in the act of adultery to go and sin no more?

yes

[auneeqsol]

Im thinking that is different because the woman that was caught in adultery if im not mistaken was not a believer, or a worshipper of God (OT phrase, because this was before the crucifixion). So she was not a follower at heart. So for her trusting that her sins were forgiven her she went on walking in a new direction.

This situation we are discussing is about a sister in Christ who has been in the church serving, worshipping, holding a leadership position in front of others for over a decade, hears the word of God preached...the whole nine......to me there is a BIG difference. In the word it speaks of disciplinary actions one could take over those who sin in the church , not unbelievers coming out of sin into the church.

But for the record I believe that all sins are forgiven, and wiped away by God, but there has to be order maintained in the house of God.

[livinganewlife]

Does that particular "forgiven"sin make her less effective in the role of church work?

[auneeqsol]

IMO its not particularly that her sin makes her less effective, its the example that she is putting forth. This is a person who is in the forefront of the church in the eyes of some, has been for years, works next to the pastor in a sense, and this is not the first time she has been caught in this situation, (did i fail to mention that?) and all was forgiven (of course no problem with that) and she went on doing her duties, now the same issue is rollin around again but with a different partner(other than her spouse) but this time there is an outward show (pregnancy) Now im not saying that the pregnancy is sin, but after she was hiding the fact that she was living in sin (again) it comes to light. I dont think that shows a good example to others that may be looking up to those who work in the ministry or even those who are just attending.

And as far as those who are married, if the church is going to treat adultery or fornication just like it was something that was done and you can continue to work and hold position in the church over others (being a leader) I would say to those that are married that you dont have to be married in order to have relations. In this church some were dating but fell in sin and decided to get married just to be right in the eysight of God. Marriage is honorable in the eyesight of God, carrying on a relationship outside of marriage or while you are yet connected (married) to someone else is not honorable. Even the law recognizes bigotry.

I just think that there is to be a certain "standard" to being in ministry or being a leader before others. Being in leadership is something serious. God is depending on you to carry yourself in a godly manner before men and to represent him being a light to all. Plus in the church others have been told to sit down from their duties before, for things other than sin,
i.e. being stressed, not agreeing with leadership, because one sat down in one area you must be sat down in all etc. So there are no respector of persons, and no partiality in the body of Christ, what goes for one should go for all, especially if its sin. And I think that a time of restoration for thoughts of direction would be profitable. (Remember she is still married to a man, but yet in a relationship with the father of the unborn) I think that is definitely good reason to take some time to think through some things.

[livinganewlife]

Uneeq, I misunderstood the original post.......

I didn't realize she was still married............ My Bad

[MsKayLander]

If GOD forgave her she is forgiven... now, you still gotta deal with the folks and you will never be able to please the masses. I don't know if its a "church" issue or between the leader and the Pastor. If it was me, I wouldn't have the Pastor sit me down, I would take a back seat on my own, especially if I was still somewhat in the situation (ie, continuing to see the other man).

The real issues are, what happens if her and the husband reconcile... will he accept the child and allow the father to have a role in the child's life? Will the members label the child as illegitimate because of the parents? Will she ever be able to live beyond her sin, especially in the eyes of the members?

[And Such Were Some Of You]

I am with Misskay here. I wouldn't wait until someone told me of my wrong and had to sit me down. The bible clearly tells me I am wrong and the conviction there of should lead me to take appropriate action.

HOWEVER, If the individual (and all involved) is still behaving in a manner that is not pleasing to the Lord and is in obvious sin, then yes, there is a way in which one should handel such matters but also understanding that when the matter is dealt with - it may not mean that the church has to know about it. How do we know that she has not been dealt with? How do we know that she is still in sin with the brother?

I am not condoning her sin but what I am asking is do we really know ALL of the details. We were giving a story in the initial post, and then after several more posts we are given MORE details. In situations such as this, it is best to pray and allow the Lord (and those He will use) to handle such matters.