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Post by Jasmine on Oct 16, 2006 18:04:54 GMT -5
Need to add: The reason why Jesus wasn't made a son, is because the Son Already existed. When Jesus was Born, he became MAN. If that is the case how did Melchisedec become Christ in the flesh?>prior to the birth of the manchild (Jesus)< I dont know. I never said that Melchisedec was Christ. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Oct 17, 2006 8:26:44 GMT -5
Jasmine never said he was Christ. Jesus is the Christ. Jasmine said he was God. I said he was the pre-incarnate Christ.
We really have to understand that Jesus was not created by God. The Son has always existed, but Phillipians explains to us the plan of redemption. He put on flesh and became MAN. Now what does that mean. He came through man and became HUMAN flesh like us.
Beck. A theophany is a visible appearance of God to a human being particularly the OT. Now God has only shown Himself to man in the form of the Son whether pre-incarnate or incarnate.
Matthew 11:27
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
A perfect example of a Theophany is oftentimes when the Bible speaks of THE angel of the Lord. We have an example in Genesis 16 where the Bible says THE angel of the Lord appeared unto Hagar, yet the angel spoke to Hagar as if He were God.
And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
Gen 16:8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
Gen 16:9 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
Gen 16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Now here the angel said I WILL not God will. The angel spoke as if He were God. Often times the Angel of the Lord is actually an appearance of the pre-incarnate Christ speaking to men.
Another classic one is the burning Bush. Lets examine that one.
EXodus 3
2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Here is yet another example of The angel of the Lord speaking as God. The scripture says the Angel of the Lord appeared in the bust YET the angel spoke with the authority of God, calling himself I AM.
The ONLY time in the OT that I am aware of where the phrase Son of God exists is in Daniel where Nebuchadnezzar threw the Hebrew boys in the fire
Daniel 3
Daniel 3
24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Here Nebuchadnezzar saw a man like the Son of God in the furnace.
God took physical form when he sat down with Abraham before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. This is evident in Genesis 16. So it stands to reason given all the specific details about Melchisedec that match Jesus so closely that he could very well be another theophany. And I believe that is exactly what he is an appearance of God in visible form to man.
This does not make him the incarnate Christ. But once again we must remember that Jesus did not BECOME son. He always was son. Jesus always has been God. But when he put on flesh he came THROUGH man ( this is where the incarnate part comes in ) and lived man on the earth. He was 100% human but yet 100% God. He was GOD made manifest in human flesh.
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Post by Jasmine on Oct 17, 2006 11:17:55 GMT -5
Thanks GDD,
I couldn't have explained it better than that.
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Post by keita on Oct 17, 2006 11:22:08 GMT -5
HERE is a great article that details the two main views on the subject. I agree that particular article is a really fine (and well-balanced) piece of work, bro kb! And this "heart of the matter" excerpt from it: "Whoever Melchisedec is, we must be careful that we do not get so caught up in the details that we lose sight of the author's teaching and purpose, which was to show that Jesus' priesthood is superior to Aaron's in many ways, but especially in regards to the fact that Jesus' priesthood has salvific power, while Aaron's did not..."is just one example of why I hold that opinion.  |
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Post by krazeeboi on Oct 19, 2006 2:33:36 GMT -5
I believe that the eternal Word of God became the Son of God at a particular point in time.
I believe that the figure in the fiery furnace in Daniel was an angel.
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Post by auneeqsol on Dec 22, 2006 9:59:50 GMT -5
Melchisedec...... Melchisedec was a man. There was just no recorded documentation of his lineage. According to the word I cant see how he was a "theophany" or the pre- incarnate Christ because even though I believe that Christ appeared in different forms in the OT like as unto angels or "The Lord" he never stayed and dwelt among men for a long period of time. You have to remember the purpose of Christ coming to the earth. If he was Melchisedec what would have been his purpose then? Melchisedec was a man that was King and high Priest of Salem in Jerusalem, he dwelt among men, he reigned, he conducted affairs.....etc. That was not the purpose of Christ coming to the earth. That was not God's plan. And if Melchisedec was God/Jesus pre-incarnate then how come Abram acted the way he did towards him. Genesis 14:23 That I will not [take] from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that [is] thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich: Abram didnt want it to be said that this king made him rich because he trusted in the Lord God to provide for him goods. He was clearly just a man. And the bible says in hebrews that Jesus is priests after the order of Melchisedec, not being him. It just means that as Melchisedec was with no history of lineage, and serving after the priesthood of God and serving as king of Salem "King of Peace" - P(Prince of Peace) thats how Jesus is to us. Because Jesus wasnt in the preisthood after the Levites, he is sanctioned by God to be High priest. I used to believe that Melchisedec was some type of supernatural Man like Jesus, but when I researched the scriptures I found out what they meant. But everyone is entitled to their opinion. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Dec 22, 2006 20:46:11 GMT -5
I wholeheartedly agree.
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Grace
Full Member
Posts: 186
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Post by Grace on Jan 7, 2007 0:01:57 GMT -5
Amen Giants
the pre incarnate of Jesus Christ. Some say he is a form of Christ in the old testament.
the bible also states inthe new test that Jesus priesthood was after the order of Melchezadek
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Post by krazeeboi on Jan 10, 2007 2:44:08 GMT -5
Theophanies in scripture are TEMPORARY appearances. Melchisedek was an actual king and priest and had duties associated with these offices over a period of time. Therefore, I fail to see how he can be said to be the pre-incarnate Christ.
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Post by giantsdodie on Jan 10, 2007 8:57:50 GMT -5
Ok question then. Where was his kindgom, what were his duties, and exactly how long was his reign ?
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Post by Beck on Jan 10, 2007 12:05:48 GMT -5
Amen Giants the pre incarnate of Jesus Christ. Some say he is a form of Christ in the old testament. the bible also states inthe new test that Jesus priesthood was after the order of Melchezadek After the order of Melchezadek refers to be KING AND PRIEST... Mechezadek was the only king that was also a priest. |
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Post by Beck on Jan 10, 2007 12:08:19 GMT -5
If that is the case how did Melchisedec become Christ in the flesh?>prior to the birth of the manchild (Jesus)< I dont know. I never said that Melchisedec was Christ. You did say that he was God though right?... Isnt God and Christ one? |
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Post by krazeeboi on Jan 12, 2007 21:59:53 GMT -5
Ok question then. Where was his kindgom, what were his duties, and exactly how long was his reign ? Didn't the passage say he was king of Salem, which was an actual city? The Bible doesn't go into details about his exact duties and the length of his reign, but I'm more than certain the former can be discovered just by researching early kings of the Middle East. |
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