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Post by keita on May 10, 2007 13:47:18 GMT -5
(Hi Keita  )
Much love to you from the battlefield!IT IS WELL!!!Amen! And, imho, examining how the Body/local assembly is, and more importantly, is supposed to be doing its "'buking and scorning" is worth every bit of it. Paul is definitely the "go to" man for instruction and clarity about this. I'm glad we're searching the scriptures because there's yet so much damage being done in our "churches".... "in the name of Jesus" and "discipline".  |
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Post by auneeqsol on May 14, 2007 22:40:27 GMT -5
I know i'm going a bit off subject here, but how come we don't practice certain scriptures or teachings but some we do? What I mean by that is this, just like the sripture in Corinthians where Paul was rebuking the church because they sit up and treated the man going with his father's wife like it wasnt nothin. And Paul told them to turn them over unto Satan ..and you know the story, and in another passage it said if the ppl didnt wanna stop sinnin or be restored for something they did then treat them like a heathen, or a sinner. Now how many of us do these things? Do you think if we would start using these methods then things would take a different outcome in the church? i hope im wordin myself to where you can understand
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Post by krazeeboi on May 15, 2007 0:31:54 GMT -5
Church discipline is a joke today. The mantra of the day is, "You're not perfect, so what gives you the right to judge me?", so by and large, we just don't discipline folks.
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Post by stillfocused on May 15, 2007 13:27:56 GMT -5
I understand that there is a need for discipline..yet, when does the discipline become the end of all things ? I have seen people excommunciated..some discipline is necessary. I believe if done as laid out in the Bible..we would not have people leaving churches, going into another bleeding all the place and hurting one another. I have seen too many churches started out of hurt and church splits..because someone chose not to do things the way they should have done it...with intention of never restoring the brother or sister..separating themselves from them because "God told them" to..not walking in love, forgiveness, or reconcilation.
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Post by stillfocused on May 15, 2007 13:30:15 GMT -5
I am still waiting for someone to direct to scripture..that says when a brother or sisters..that they need to go before church and confess their sins..Matt 18..is good; yet, steps 1 and 2 are always overlooked..and it's straight to step 3.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on May 15, 2007 14:27:44 GMT -5
stillfocused,
there are no such scriptures.
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Post by stillfocused on May 15, 2007 15:45:57 GMT -5
If there is no scripture basis for this practice..why is done ?
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Post by auneeqsol on May 16, 2007 10:05:14 GMT -5
Because people take the concept of a scripture asnd then add on what they think the scripture means or just whatever they want. There are scriptures that do suggest bringing one before the church and addressing the situation and then if the bro or sis dont hear the entire church then they are considered a heathen because they dont wanna hear anyone.
And then there's the scripture saying "Rebuke before all so that others may fear" in other words bring them before the "elders" (in that particular scripture) and rebuke them for their sin , so that the others may fear and not fall into that same reproach.
Then there's the scripture that say "open rebuke is better than secret love" so that should be self explanatory, its better for us to get things out in the open instead of sweep them under the rug.
These are the scriptures: Matthew 18:17, 1 Tim 5:20, Pro 27:5
Now like I said some ppl take the concept and make the rest up, but there are some scriptures that actually do suggest rebuking before all, but there is still a way to do things and also wisdom as to how to do it, or even if its necessary in certain situations. Just because you have liberty or even authority to do a thing it doesnt mean that its the best approach to take at that time
Lack of love, and lack of wisdom is really afflicting the church.
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Post by keita on May 16, 2007 11:19:02 GMT -5
Well said!
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Post by anointedteacher on May 17, 2007 13:57:51 GMT -5
Every House (church) have their set of rules.... some spelled-out in the scripture and some are not, but line up with the scripture and some are off... .
In some situation, it is necessary to bring the individual before the congregation, when it involve in discord, rumors, that is leading some to backslide and leave the church.... When it come to hurting the people and the church. Everybody in the church are not rooted and grounded in Christ... so the leaders must protect the weak...
Something need to be dealt with, but not in front of the church.... It should be done according to Matthew 18....
Apostle Paul dealt with the man that committed incest in the church different.... he didn't go through the process of speaking to him in private and than bring one or two witness.... he told them to kicked him out (excommunicate)... You do not have to tell somebody who know they are wrong and out of order.... that they are wrong. He say don't even eat with fornicators.... Later in IICor 2 (I think) he told them to restore him....
The church should be a place of discipline and training, but not destroying and killing. Some leaders don't know how to deal with situation... and end up hurting God's people.
AT
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Post by stillfocused on May 17, 2007 16:10:23 GMT -5
AnointedTeacher..thanks !! Sad, but true !!
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Post by stillfocused on May 21, 2007 11:15:11 GMT -5
In light of the scripture references that were given what is the purpose of bringing someone before the congregation to confess their sin ? And should a leader be made to stand publicly to confess their sins ?
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Post by stillfocused on May 21, 2007 11:39:12 GMT -5
In light of the scripture references that were given what is the purpose of bringing someone before the congregation to confess their sin ? And should a leader be made to stand publicly to confess their sins ?
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Post by nina2 on May 21, 2007 13:54:34 GMT -5
From what I've read, in the beginning of the Reformed Church, and according to their order of service, confession of sins was included in the beginning of the service, before communion.
Regarding public confession, the "usual practice" was that, if one had sinned against one person, that one should confess privately to that person. If one had sinned in a way that was harming the entire congregation/church, then one had to confess to the entire congregation. My understanding is that it applied to all, including a leader...
Just my opinion: I don't believe in this type of forced confession. Confession without repentance is of no avail, and only God knows if a person really and sincerely repents, or is just going through the motions of the established local rules.
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Post by anointedteacher on May 21, 2007 14:08:02 GMT -5
Here is my questions Stillfocused.... I don't think everything should go before the congregation.... only when it affection the congregation, when someone is trying to hurt God people through lies and rumor and to shut the devil mouth.
How would you handle those sins that can not be hide without the person leaving the church... I'm talking about those who have some form of position in the church, such as ushers, praise & worship, choir member, ministers, or even the pastor. How should you protect the person who fell short, from being talk about and condemned by those who notice the sin.... such as pregnancy... You don't want the person to leave the church inorder to hide their pregnancy and you don't want her to feel ashame and condemned.
AT
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