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Post by Nikkol on Aug 30, 2007 12:48:38 GMT -5
From Bynum thread. I thought this should be a different topic/thread.Nikkol, I can't reason that it's one's job to rid the sphere of the church (or Christendom) of tares. We must lead that up to God. We are told to separate from what's false but never to persecute. We leave that to God. Refer to Matthew 13, which talks about the tares. I want to add, though, that there are many within the Church sphere who are true to God and many who aren't. There are also many who are sincere but fall and error and need restoration and help. We know that many can stray from God but doesn't necessarily mean they can't return. I think the Church need to pray for the return of our brothers and sisters who have strayed. Not only pray but go get them! When you read scripture, Jesus ministered and changed people lives because he was moved to compassion. Discernment leads to compassion and compassion to action mode. Many talk about how God is increasing discernment but I believe one reason is so that we use that discernment to minister compassion to go get our brothers and sisters. Go get them! Just wanted to pull some scriptures to indicate that the church has been given authority (by God) to deal with different situations. Mt: 18:15-17 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 1 Corinthians 5:1-6 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 1 Timothy 1:18-20 18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; 19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: 20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. At the same time, all discipline should be done with hopes that the person will come back to God.Galatians 6:1-10 1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. 3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. 4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For every man shall bear his own burden. 6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith. My main point being that we don't want to just take one extreme but rather take all of what scripture has told us to do. Even in discipline, it should be done with compassion. Just like when we (general) have to discipline our children for doing wrong. We're not told to just "leave it to God" so to speak. Rather, we are told to use the rod of correction (Pr 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.) It appears that you are saying that by removing the tares, you are not showing compassion. However, what I am saying is that by removing the tares and doing what scripture has told us to do, that is showing compassion. Because if we don't deal with sin, the blood will be on our hands. So many people are in the church and people know what they are doing wrong and yet noone says anything (or they just pick out those "special sins"). Those people sit in church, are not convicted and change nothing; yet think that they're ok. Now there is another extreme by which people want to "preach people out of the church" and there's no compassion. They get happy and boastful how they "preached the homosexual out of the church"...... but they never sat down and really tried to help them. To give guidance. Yet, you never hear about people "preaching the liar out" or "preaching the fornicator out". Compassion, as you stated is the key. But one's compassion will cause for a change of some sort. Also, if something isn't done with these tares, it will be possibly choke the wheat or make it so you can't even tell the difference. I'm tired of seeing so many babes in Christ being choked by the tares. In doing evangelism even around the church, you see how many people have a love for God but because of what they saw in church it really turned them away.... and it isn't perse what they did but rather how it was handled. People being abused but no disciplinary action. People being gossipped on... the list goes on and on. It's very hurtful hearing these stories.
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Post by anointedteacher on Aug 30, 2007 17:01:03 GMT -5
Matthew 13: 24-30,36-40
13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
13:25
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
13:26
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
13:27
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
13:28
He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
13:29
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
13:36
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
13:37
He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
13:39
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
13:40
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
The average Christian are not in position to remove tares, because they do not operate the gift of discerning of spirits. In the process of removing tares, they also remove the wheats. Most of the ppl in the church that misbehave are wheat and not tares.
Years ago in by church, there was a lady sent there on assignment by enemy. As I was cleaning the church I notice these big toes nails around the pulpit. I told my pastor about it , they said they already know about, but God have not reveal the person yet. I was very new to the church and new very little about ppl coming to the church on assignment. While in the prayer room of the church, as I was interceding for the church, I fell out in the spirit. I had a close vision of the person throw the nails on the pulpit. It was a lady that was highly respected, and in good standard in the church. You wouldn't believe this lady was really a witch. The only thing I notice about her that she kept a distance from everybody in the church, she will speak, but didn't hold any conversation. When I can to myself I told my pastor. I don't know what they did, but the lady never came back to the church, after she was uncovered.
If I would have taken matter into my own hand, I would have destroy some wheat, as I try to remove the tares. Apostle Paul mainly dealt with leaders to do the rebuking. The wrong person will operates in the flesh and damage or destroy the wheat with the tare.
There a different in dealing with misbehavior and tares. A person who misbehave may be a wheat and was place in the Church by God and tares are planted by the devil.
I think everybody need to be accountable to somebody other than God.
AT
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Post by anointed on Aug 30, 2007 21:59:28 GMT -5
AT, you made some good points especially when attempts are made to remove tares it's possible that we can move wheat. That's why we must be careful what we say and how we deal with individuals. We can hurt the innocent and sincere. Below is a pretty good commentary synopsis of wheat and tares. (Bold is my emphasis)
Matthew Henry Commentary of Matthew 13:
Let us go over the particulars of the exposition of the parable.
(1.) He that sows the good seed is the Son of man. Jesus Christ is the Lord of the field, the Lord of the harvest, the Sower of good seed. When he ascended on high, he gave gifts to the world; not only good ministers, but other good men. Note, Whatever good seed there is in the world, it all comes from the hand of Christ, and is of his sowing: truths preached, graces planted, souls sanctified, are good seed, and all owing to Christ. Ministers are instruments in Christ's hand to sow good seed; are employed by him and under him, and the success of their labours depends purely upon his blessing; so that it may well be said, It is Christ, and no other, that sows the good seed; he is the Son of man, one of us, that his terror might not make us afraid; the Son of man, the Mediator, and that has authority.
(2.) The field is the world; the world of mankind, a large field, capable of bringing forth good fruit; the more is it to be lamented that it brings forth so much bad fruit: the world here is the visible church, scattered all the world over, not confined to one nation. Observe, In the parable it is called his field; the world is Christ's field, for all things are delivered unto him of the Father: whatever power and interest the devil has in the world, it is usurped and unjust; when Christ comes to take possession, he comes whose right it is; it is his field, and because it is his he took care to sow it with good seed.
(3.) The good seed are the children of the kingdom, true saints. They are, [1.] The children of the kingdom; not in profession only, as the Jews were (Matthew 8:12), but in sincerity; Jews inwardly, Israelites indeed, incorporated in faith and obedience to Jesus Christ the great King of the church. [2.] They are the good seed, precious as seed, Psalms 126:6. The seed is the substance of the field; so the holy seed, Isaiah 6:13. The seed is scattered, so are the saints; dispersed, here one and there another, though in some places thicker sown than in others. The seed is that from which fruit is expected; what fruit of honour and service God has from this world he has from the saints, whom he has sown unto himself in the earth, Hosea 2:23.
(4.) The tares are the children of the wicked one. Here is the character of sinners, hypocrites, and all profane and wicked people. [1.] They are the children of the devil, as a wicked one. Though they do not own his name, yet they bear his image, do his lusts, and from him they have their education; he rules over them, he works in them, Ephesians 2:2,Joh+8:44. [2.] They are tares in the field of this world; they do no good, they do hurt; unprofitable in themselves, and hurtful to the good seed, both by temptation and persecution: they are weeds in the garden, have the same rain, and sunshine, and soil, with the good plants, but are good for nothing: the tares are among the wheat. Note, God has so ordered it, that good and bad should be mixed together in this world, that the good may be exercised, the bad left inexcusable, and a difference made between earth and heaven.
(5.) The enemy that sowed the tares is the devil; a sworn enemy to Christ and all that is good, to the glory of the good God, and the comfort and happiness of all good men. He is an enemy to the field of the world, which he endeavours to make his own, by sowing his tares in it. Ever since he became a wicked spirit himself, he has been industrious to promote wickedness, and has made it his business, aiming therein to counterwork Christ.
Now concerning the sowing of the tares, observe in the parable,
[1.] That they were sown while men slept. Magistrates slept, who by their power, ministers slept, who by their preaching, should have prevented this mischief. Note, Satan watches all opportunities, and lays hold of all advantages, to propagate vice and profaneness. The prejudice he does to particular persons is when reason and conscience sleep, when they are off their guard; we have therefore need to be sober, and vigilant. It was in the night, for that is the sleeping time. Note, Satan rules in the darkness of this world; that gives him an opportunity to sow tares, Psalms 104:20. It was while men slept; and there is no remedy but men must have some sleeping time. Note, It is as impossible for us to prevent hypocrites being in the church, as it is for the husbandman, when he is asleep, to hinder an enemy from spoiling his field.
[2.] The enemy, when he had sown the tares, went his way (Matthew 13:25), that it might not be known who did it. Note, When Satan is doing the greatest mischief, he studies most to conceal himself; for his design is in danger of being spoiled if he be seen in it; and therefore, when he comes to sow tares, he transforms himself into an angel of light, 2 Corinthians 11:13,14. He went his way, as if he had done no harm; such is the way of the adulterous woman, Proverbs 30:20. Observe, Such is the proneness of fallen man to sin, that if the enemy sow the tares, he may even go his way, they will spring up of themselves and do hurt; whereas, when good seed is sown, it must be tended, watered, and fenced, or it will come to nothing.
[3.] The tares appeared not till the blade sprung up, and brought forth fruit, Matthew 13:26. There is a great deal of secret wickedness in the hearts of men, which is long hid under the cloak of a plausible profession, but breaks out at last. As the good seed, so the tares, lie a great while under the clods, and at first springing up, it is hard to distinguish them; but when a trying time comes, when fruit is to be brought forth, when good is to be done that has difficulty and hazard attending it, then you will return and discern between the sincere and the hypocrite: then you may say, This is wheat, and that is tares.
[4.] The servants, when they were aware of it, complained to their master (Matthew 13:27); Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? No doubt he did; whatever is amiss in the church, we are sure it is not of Christ: considering the seed which Christ sows, we may well ask, with wonder, Whence should these tares come? Note, The rise of errors, the breaking out of scandals, and the growth of profaneness, are matter of great grief to all the servants of Christ; especially to his faithful ministers, who are directed to complain of it to him whose the field is. It is sad to see such tares, such weeds, in the garden of the Lord; to see the good soil wasted, the good seed choked, and such a reflection cast on the name and honour of Christ, as if his field were no better than the field of the slothful, all grown over with thorns.
[5.] The Master was soon aware whence it was (Matthew 13:28); An enemy has done this. He does not lay the blame upon the servants; they could not help it, but had done what was in their power to prevent it. Note, The ministers of Christ, that are faithful and diligent, shall not be judged of Christ, and therefore should not be reproached by men, for the mixtures of bad with good, hypocrites with the sincere, in the field of the church. It must needs be that such offences will come; and they shall not be laid to our charge, if we do our duty, though it have not the desired success. Though they sleep, if they do not love sleep; though tares be sown, if they do not sow them nor water them, nor allow of them, the blame shall not lie at their door.
[6.] The servants were very forward to have these tares rooted up. "Wilt thou that we go and do it presently?" Note, The over-hasty and inconsiderate zeal of Christ's servants, before they have consulted with their Master, is sometimes ready, with the hazard of the church, to root out all that they presume to be tares: Lord, wilt thou that we call for fire from heaven?
[7.] The Master very wisely prevented this (Matthew 13:29); Nay, lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Note, It is not possible for any man infallibly to distinguish between tares and wheat, but he may be mistaken; and therefore such is the wisdom and grace of Christ, that he will rather permit the tares, than any way endanger the wheat. It is certain, scandalous offenders are to be censured, and we are to withdraw from them; those who are openly the children of the wicked one, are not to be admitted to special ordinances; yet it is possible there may be a discipline, either so mistaken in its rules, or so over-nice in the application of them, as may prove vexatious to many that are truly godly and conscientious. Great caution and moderation must be used in inflicting and continuing church censures, lest the wheat be trodden down, if not plucked up. The wisdom from above, as it is pure, so it is peaceable, and those who oppose themselves must not be cut off, but instructed, and with meekness, 2 Timothy 2:25. The tares, if continued under the means of grace, may become good corn; therefore have patience with them.
(6.) The harvest is the end of the world, Matthew 13:39. This world will have an end; though it continue long, it will not continue always; time will shortly be swallowed up in eternity. At the end of the world, there will be a great harvest-day, a day of judgment; at harvest all is ripe and ready to be cut down: both good and bad are ripe at the great-day, Revelation 6:11. It is the harvest of the earth, Revelation 14:15. At harvest the reapers cut down all before them; not a field, not a corner, is left behind; so at the great day all must be judged (Revelation 20:12,13); God has set a harvest (Hosea 6:11), and it shall not fail, Genesis 8:22. At harvest every man reaps as he sowed; every man's ground, and seed, and skill, and industry, will be manifested: see Galatians 6:7,8. Then they who sowed precious seed, will come again with rejoicing (Psalms 126:5,6), with the joy of harvest (Isaiah 9:3); when the sluggard, who would not plough by reason of cold, shall beg, and have nothing (Proverbs 20:4); shall cry, Lord, Lord, but in vain; when the harvest of those who sowed to the flesh, shall be a day of grief, and of desperate sorrow, Isaiah 17:11.
(7.) The reapers are the angels: they shall be employed, in the great day, in executing Christ's righteous sentences, both of approbation and condemnation, as ministers of his justice, Matthew 25:31. The angels are skilful, strong, and swift, obedient servants to Christ, holy enemies to the wicked, and faithful friends to all the saints, and therefore fit to be thus employed. He that reapeth receiveth wages, and the angels will not be unpaid for their attendance; for he that soweth, and he that reapeth, shall rejoice together (John 4:36); that is joy in heaven in the presence of the angels of God.
(8.) Hell-torments are the fire, into which the tares shall then be cast, and in which they shall be burned. At the great day a distinction will be made, and with it a vast difference; it will be a notable day indeed.
[1.] The tares will then be gathered out: The reapers (whose primary work it is to gather in the corn) shall be charged first to gather out the tares. Note, Though good and bad are together in this world undistinguished, yet at the great day they shall be parted; no tares shall then be among the wheat; no sinners among the saints: then you shall plainly discern between the righteous and the wicked, which here sometimes it is hard to do, Malachi 3:18,4:1. Christ will not bear always, Psalms 50:1, &c. They shall gather out of his kingdom all wicked things that offend, and all wicked persons that do iniquity: when he begins, he will make a full end. All those corrupt doctrines, worships, and practices, which have offended, have been scandals to the church, and stumbling-blocks to men's consciences, shall be condemned by the righteous Judge in that day, and consumed by the brightness of his coming; all the wood, hay, and stubble (1 Corinthians 3:12); and then woe to them that do iniquity, that make a trade of it, and persist in it; not only those in the last age of Christ's kingdom upon earth, but those in every age. Perhaps here is an allusion to Zephaniah 1:3, I will consume the stumbling-blocks with the wicked.
[2.] They will then be bound in bundles, Matthew 13:30. Sinners of the same sort will be bundled together in the great day: a bundle of atheists, a bundle of epicures, a bundle of persecutors, and a great bundle of hypocrites. Those who have been associates in sin, will be so in shame and sorrow; and it will be an aggravation of their misery, as the society of glorified saints will add to their bliss. Let us pray, as David, Lord, gather not my soul with sinners (Psalms 26:9), but let it be bound in the bundle of life, with the Lord our God, 1 Samuel 25:29. [3.] They will be cast into a furnace of fire; such will be the end of wicked, mischievous people, that are in the church as tares in the field; they are fit for nothing but fire; to it they shall go, it is the fittest place for them. Note, Hell is a furnace of fire, kindled by the wrath of God, and kept burning by the bundles of tares cast into it, who will be ever in the consuming, but never consumed. But he slides out of the metaphor into a description of those torments that are designed to be set forth by it: There shall be weeping, and gnashing of teeth; comfortless sorrow, and an incurable indignation at God, themselves, and one another, will be the endless torture of d**ned souls. Let us therefore, knowing these terrors of the Lord, be persuaded not to do iniquity.
(9.) Heaven is the barn into which all God's wheat shall be gathered in that harvest-day. But gather the wheat into my barn: so it is in the parable, Matthew 13:30. Note, [1.] In the field of this world good people are the wheat, the most precious grain, and the valuable part of the field. [2.] This wheat shall shortly be gathered, gathered from among the tares and weeds: all gathered together in a general assembly, all the Old-Testament saints, all the New-Testament saints, not one missing. Gather my saints together unto me, Psalms 50:5. [3.] All God's wheat shall be lodged together in God's barn: particular souls are housed at death as a shock of corn (Job 5:26), but the general in-gathering will be at the end of time: God's wheat will then be put together, and no longer scattered; there will be sheaves of corn, as well as bundles of tares: they will then be secured, and no longer exposed to wind and weather, sin and sorrow: no longer afar off, and at a great distance, in the field, but near, in the barn. Nay, heaven is a garner (Matthew 3:12), in which the wheat will not only be separated from the tares of ill companions, but sifted from the chaff of their own corruptions.
In the explanation of the parable, this is gloriously represented (Matthew 13:43); Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. First, It is their present honour, that God is their Father. Now are we the sons of God (1 John 3:2); our Father in heaven is King there. Christ, when he went to heaven, went to his Father, and our Father, John 20:17. It is our Father's house, nay, it is our Father's palace, his throne, Revelation 3:21. Secondly, The honour in reserve for them is, that they shall shine forth as the sun in that kingdom. Here they are obscure and hidden (Colossians 3:3), their beauty is eclipsed by their poverty, and the meanness of their outward condition; their own weaknesses and infirmities, and the reproach and disgrace cast upon them, cloud them; but then they shall shine forth as the sun from behind a dark cloud; at death they shall shine forth to themselves; at the great day they will shine forth publicly before all the world, their bodies will be made like Christ's glorious body: they shall shine by reflection, with a light borrowed from the Fountain of light; their sanctification will be perfected, and their justification published; God will own them for his children, and will produce the record of all their services and sufferings for his name: they shall shine as the sun, the most glorious of all visible beings. The glory of the saints is in the Old Testament compared to that of the firmament and the stars, but here to that of the sun; for life and immortality are brought to a much clearer light by the gospel, than under the law. Those who shine as lights in this world, that God may be glorified, shall shine as the sun in the other world, that they may be glorified. Our Saviour concludes, as before, with a demand of attention; Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. These are things which it is our happiness to hear of, and our duty to hearken to.
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