Tithing: The discussion

[LANL ns]

Ybrown that was good teaching. As sister Keita said you cooking with grease up in here!!!!

[LANL ns]

After re reading this thread, one thought came to my mind about the Jews.

It is understood that Jews are some of the most wealthiest people in this world.

Jews do not tithe but freely give. Isn't it strange that their process of gaining God's wealth and finances are totally different from ours but yet they have the "proven" manisfestations of obtaining wealth from giving.

[Nikkol]

Question

According to my friend, one should tithe 30% of his/her income. I don't believe this is correct. What does the Bible say about tithe?

Answer

Back from the time that Abraham welcomed the strangers into his tent (Genesis chapter 18), charity has been a foundation of Jewish life. The Torah commands us to give 10 percent of our earnings to people in need, based on Leviticus 25:35 and Deut. 15:7-8. This is called Ma'aser, literally "one tenth" (hence the English word "tithe"). This is colloquially called tzedakah (charity), which Maimonides lists charity as one of the 613 mitzvahs.

Ten percent of a person's wages after taxes should be set aside for tzedakah. Business expenses and Jewish education costs may be deducted from the 10 percent. (Some people deduct only two-thirds of a boy's Torah education cost.)

For those who want to do extra, the Torah allows you to give 20 percent. Above that amount is unrealistic. If you give too much, you'll come to neglect other aspects of your life.

To learn more, read "Ma'aser Kesafim - Giving a Tenth to Charity" edited by Cyril Domb (Feldheim), and "Permission to Receive," by Lawrence Kellemen (Targum Press). See also: "Code of Jewish Law" Y.D. 249:2; "Igrot Moshe"(R' M. Feinstein) Y.D. II, 112; "Orchat Rabeinu (R' Y. Kanievsky) I, 302.

With blessings from Jerusalem,

Rabbi Shraga Simmons

[ybrown]

Nikkol, since you brought up the three tithes. Let’s look at them.

But first, I have to say that I looked at the two scriptures that the Rabbi used to support tithing, Leviticus 25:35 and Deut. 15:7-8. Neither one of them support what he says. Those scriptures say nothing about tithing and its not surprising that a religious leader that wants to illegal maintain O.T. tithing brings forth scriptures that neither supports the practice nor the idea of it.

It’s also peculiar indeed that both Jewish leaders and Christian leaders use the same scriptures to yoke God’s people.

According to A Book of Jewish Concepts, there were 3 different tithing laws: ma'aser rishon (a.k.a. First Tithe), ma'aser sheni (Second Tithe), and ma'aser 'ani (Poor Tithe).

In other words, one-tenth was to be given to the priests and Levites (of which only priest from the Levite tribe could receive), one-tenth was to be applied to feasts in the metropolis, and another tenth besides these was every third year to be given to the poor.

Let’s look at that third tithe. At the end of three years all the tithe of that year was to be gathered and laid up within the "gates" and in which “the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, together with the Levite, were to partake.” In other words, they had a big party, and partied hardy at your expense.

After the party was over, the last thing each “tithing Israelite” had to do was make a declaration; he was to declare that he had done his best to fulfill the divine law. This is according to Leviticus 26:12-14. Keep this in mind because this has A VERY special significance that we’ll shortly see.

According to John 5:39, Jesus told the people of Israel that the scriptures testified of Him. What He was saying was that such things as animals sacrifices testified of His death, since according to John the Baptist He was the real lamb sacrificed for the sins of the world; John 1:29. His death brought an end to all forms of animal sacrifices for sin.

Now tithing had a great spiritual significance that most of us aren’t aware of. The key to understanding the spiritual reality of the tithe comes from the fact that, remember the Jews tithed herbs and such to the priests? We know in the natural the tithes supported the priests, but what was the spiritual significance? Spiritually, the Levite Priests served an important role as a mediator between the Jews and God. Mediator? In other words, the Levite Priests symbolically represented Jesus, who now serves as our mediator with the Father.

Also in the spiritual, the tithe from the earth represented the souls that resurrected with Jesus. Clearly, when the Messiah, the true high priest, resurrected from the grave with human spirits, as stated in Matthew 27: 51-53, following Him, this is the "true tithe." Jesus figuratively gave His father a tenth, a tithe, of the souls of men, as Israel gave the Levites a tenth and the Levites gave a tenth to the High Priest.

Jesus’ resurrection took place in Jerusalem where the year of tithing was celebrated, which was where the fatherless, the widows, the orphans, and poor ate the tithe and partied.

This is something I thought was deep, which I learned: the fatherless, widows, orphans, and the poor represent us, mankind, spiritually because we all manifest these qualities until we are transformed through Christ. This is how it goes: we are all poor in spirit until we have faith, trust, and hope in our Creator, which allows us to partake of the abundant riches He provided for us as stated in John 10:10. We are all fatherless in spirit until we recognize our true spiritual origin as in Galatians 4:6-7. We are all widows until we become married to the Messiah, our Husband.

All of Israel and the world must eat the words of the Messiah, for they are the life of the soul; John. 6:63. The "year of tithing" typified this spiritual operation of feeding the soul who is the resurrection and Life.

So was the year of tithing fulfilled? Yes, here how we know. In John 5:39, Jesus the Messiah told the people of Israel that the scriptures testified of Him. What this means is that such things as animals sacrifices testified of His death, since according to John the Baptist He was the real lamb sacrificed for the sins of the world; John 1:29. So this means His death brought an end to all forms of animal sacrifices for sin.

Now, remember the declaration that each tither was to make, proclaiming that he had done his best to fulfill the divine law? That is the same declaration that Jesus made when HE fulfilled ALL the law to perfection when He was on the cross.

It’s interesting to know that the Rabbi in Nikkol’s post says that only one tithing law is truly commanded, while the other two are voluntary. That’s both very telling, yet not at the same time because for over 2000 years, Jewish leaders had never agreed on the number of tithing laws that their people were to keep. Some say only two laws were/are mandatory, some say three, while the one in the article says one. Since they could never come to a consensus, the tithing practices they upheld were no longer based on God’s Word in scripture; instead they were merely based on old traditions. As a result there was no uniformity in the practice.

Which is exactly why most Christians today are still tithing based on O.T. law – following the traditions of man.

So if you want to really make sure you’re keeping to all of the O.T. tithing laws, you should adhere to all three tithing laws, just in case. Don’t you think that’ll make God even happier? That was facetious, but seriously, He already loves us and no matter how much we give, that’ll NEVER change. He just wants us to freely give, without worry, condemnation and hardness of heart because THAT is what He blesses.

[hezsweetiknow]

LANL said:

Ybrown that was good teaching. As sister Keita said you cooking with grease up in here!!!!

YB, thanks!

[keita]

...He just wants us to freely give, without worry, condemnation and hardness of heart because THAT is what He blesses.

To borrow the wise word of our brother Giants,

BINGO!

[auneeqsol]

Umm hmmm I'll be back on this one too, Cuz i got to tell it!!! LOL

[auneeqsol]

Okay Im back for a minute, (not even sure if someone is reading this topic anymore).

So the question is before us...Is tithing for the New Testament church?

I say NO!!!

I say that if we give cheerfully then God is pleased. If we give big or small, thats what we will reap. Now for whatsoever reason you have to give what you give, thats your business.

And also I dont believe that a Pastor or overseer has the right to look at the books and rebuke someone for not "tithing" or giving what they think they should be giving. Did the poor widow who gave tithe that day? Who knows, to my understanding she gave her last and she most likely gave it cheerfully.

And the tithes and offerings dont just supposed to go to the church to pay bills that ppl (leadership etc especially) have accumulated. Paying down on credit cards and loans the congreegation dont know anything about....hmmm Is that really the will of God? Come on.

I got another question though..

If you dont see a work going on in the church that requires finances but yet the church is asking for money here and there, and special offerings should you continue to give there? Or better yet could you be sowing on bad ground? Is there a such thing? I think it is.

I know a church that everyone starting struggling financially, and then new families came in that werent struggling before , they starting struggling financially . Utilities were being cut off , the whole nine, and they said that , that has never happened to them before until they got to that ministry. And there is no obvious evidence that the ppl can see that the church is supporting a "work" financially, but the only "work" thats being financially supported is the Pastorial fund, which is salary for the pastor (when he has a full time job already , a secular job) Is that how the finances of the church supposed to be allocated? For the pastor and just to pay bills. And when someone asks for some help they have to be put on hold for a min before they can get help and in some cases pay it back! Where's the benevolent fund? But anyway what do you all think about that?

[And Such Were Some Of You]

bump

Yes, I know some of you may be tired of this post but I wanted to re-read and re-visit it.