Pre-Mid-After Tribulation Rapture of the Church

[hezsweetiknow]

I recently started a personal study of second coming of Christ. Some teens at my church brought up the subject and I thought I should give it some serious study.

I've found that there are quite a few ideas about when Christ will come.

You have those who believe Christ will come:

• Before the rapture
  
• During the rapture
  
• After the rapture
  

I've read convincing arguments for both before and after the rapture. I'm really interested in what God is saying to His people in this area. So I continue to search it out and pray.

What say ye?

There's no argument on the fact He's coming and to be ready.

But do you believe the rapture of the church will happen before, during or after the tribulation? Why?

[Grace]

Intersting, This is a paper that I am currently working on for Seminary. I will come back later.
I'm still trying to see what scripture says regarding Pre-trib, Mid trib or Post trib. Its a lot to consider.

[krazeeboi]

Now I will admit, my eschatology is yet an undone work. BUT as far as I can tell, I think that we have separated what we call "the Rapture" from the Second Coming without precedent and have made them two separte events when it's really the same event. Check out this article to see what I mean (and it's not long).

[auneeqsol]

Well in my brief studying (im still in the midst of perfecting my study to teach it) I have come to the conclusion that it is possible that Christ return for us, or that the rapture will take place either:

Pre-Trib or Mid- Trib

The reason why I considered the conclusion of Pre-Trib is because the scripture says in 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. But some considered that The Great Trib as some call it last 7 yrs , so when some say the Great Trib it would seem as if one would suffer Tribulation the whole 7 yrs.. but is that exactly so?
And also in Rev 3:10 it says
“Since you have my command and endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live upon the earth"
So we know that God wants to keep us from the Wrath, so the pre-Trib ppl just take this as we will totally be gone before the 7 yrs even start!!! And thats too far fetched to say without researching scripture.

Now the reason why i considered the conclusion of Mid-Trib is because of a number of reasons:

The scripture says in Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The he is the antichrist. one week represents 7 yrs, so he is going to break his agreement of peace and safety in the middle of the one week , so the middle of 7yrs is 3.5 yrs.

I believe that it is possible that Christ could rapture us while we are in the midst of the 7 yr Trib. Which would be mid-tribulation. Because in the first 3.5 yrs actually there is going to be a false peace in the land, and no war and persecutions , so thus the scripture above in 1 Th 5:9 will be lined up as well, because in the first 3.5 yrs we wont see the wrath of God poured out on the children of disobedience and thus be in the midst. So that lines up with the word in that sense.

Now theres another thing and its found in

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

So Paul was explaining to them some things about the rapture, because there was misunderstanding about it.
He did say that , the day (of the rapture) would not come unless you see these two signs:(paraphrasing)

1)A falling away first
2)The man of sin is going to be revealed.

So when we look at this scripture it shows two sure signs for them to know , hey when you see these things happen you know hes coming!!

So we will see a great falling away in (I believe Israel) some say the church, and then we will know who the antichrist is, because the bible said he would be revealed.

So in order for us to know who the antichrist is it has to be already in the midst of the 7 yr Trib.

Hmmm . Thats why I said it can surely be mid-Trib too because it lines up with scripture more really. There probably are more scriptures to support pre-Trib view, but I am leaning towards mid-trib, because of the word's standpoint.

I was taught Pre-Trib, and my Pastor teaches it, but I have to go with the word and what it is really saying.

Those are my thoughts, but I'll follow up if neccesary.

[ybrown]

I believe the Rapture and the Second Coming are two different and separate events. I'll start off with this from one of my reference sites:

What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?
The Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ are often confused. Sometimes it is difficult to determine whether a Scripture is referring to the Rapture or the Second Coming. However, in studying end times Bible prophesy, it is very important to differentiate between the two.

The Rapture is when Jesus Christ returns to remove the church (all believers in Christ) from the earth. The Rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

Believers who have died will have their bodies resurrected, and along with believers who are still living will meet the Lord in the air. This will all occur in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye. The Second Coming is when Jesus returns to defeat the antichrist, destroy evil, and establish His Millennial Kingdom. The Second Coming is described in Revelation 19:11-16.

The important differences between the Rapture and Second Coming are as follows:

(1) At the Rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the Second Coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

(2) The Second Coming occurs after the great and terrible Tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The Rapture occurs before the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

(3) The Rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; 5:9). The Second Coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

(4) The Rapture will be “secret” and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The Second Coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

(5) The Second Coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6-18). The Rapture is imminent, it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

Why is it important to keep the Rapture and the Second Coming distinct?

(1) If the Rapture and the Second Coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the Tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

(2) If the Rapture and the Second Coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent…there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).

(3) In describing the Tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6-19 nowhere mentions the church. During the Tribulation, God will again turn His primary attention on Israel (Romans 11:17-31).

The Rapture and Second Coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences.

In summary, the Rapture is the return of Christ to the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The Second Coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the Tribulation to an end and to defeat the antichrist and his evil world empire.

[auneeqsol]

Alright KB... I gotta reply to that.....

I disagree with ya, and imma tell ya why.......
simply because............

The bible does let us know that they are 2 different events:

Jesus had just went up to heaven, and disappeared from their sight, and an angel was talking to them:
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

if you read the 9th vs you will see that it mentioned that a cloud received him out of their sight. He left on a cloud he will come on a cloud.

And then again its mentioned in 1Th 4:17
"Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Okay now if it ends with "shall we ever be with the Lord" that doesnt mean that we will be on earth at that time. See the second coming of Christ is to the earth!!
Not in the clouds to rapture the church, that is considered as just that, the rapture "the catching away" of the church. Notice it said TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR.

Now thats the rapture.

Now this is the second coming:

Zech 14:4-9:

Zech 14:4-And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Zec 14:5 And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee.

Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the light shall not be clear, [nor] dark:

Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light.

Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

The day he comes back to the earth the second time, he will set foot on the earth again to rule. This is the millennial reign, and this is where Christ will set up rule and establish the govt under him.

The Second Coming, is Christ actually COMING back to the earth just as he did the first time as a baby. That's why ppl say "but he's coming again as King!!!" Again to the earth , not in the clouds, to MEET IN THE AIR.

I will come back and explain more if I need to. I just gave you the basis of the two views, I was sort of rushing and talkin on the phone at the same time when I was writing this so , forgive me if something dont sound right...LOL

But let me know what ya think.

[giantsdodie]

End time discussions are one of my favorite topics.

I would say that ybrown and uneeq have the correct understanding of end time events. The scripture clearly shows the rapture and the second coming as uniquely different events. There have been some excellent points made here. I have looked at this stuff for a long time and the only thing to me that fits ALL of scripture is a pre-tribulation rapture. You can make a case for post trib by misiniterpreting or ignoring key scriptures or by totally misunderstanding what the period of tribulation is and how it comes to pass.

Unfortunately the author of that text does not have a clear understanding of either the rapture, the second coming or the second advent, or an understaning of the events which MUST take place for Jesus return to the earth. He makes an assumption from misinformation or misunderstanding and draws a conclusion. And he referenced only a few scriptures and there are many more. In fact his FIRST statement that no one spoke of the rapture for almost 2,000 years is false.

There are documents that show writers speaking of a pre-trib rapture LONG before that time frame

Epharaem the Syrian said, in 373 AD, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

Now 373 AD is long before 2000 years have passed.

[hezsweetiknow]

This is my real first serious study on the subject matter and really want to study to show my self approved.

I do somewhat hold to the notion of dispensations so this article made sense to me. I don't agree with everything but overall made sense to me.


www.geocities.com/stat23mj/prophecy/pretrib.html

I do KNOW THIS, HE is coming. Even so, come Lord Jesus!

Still searching it all out....

HezSweet

[giantsdodie]

Just quickly reading through the document as it is lengthy it seems to draw some correct conclusions, however it seems that there is some misunderstanding about the trumpets, but all in all it seems to be correct.