TONEX: THE NAKED TRUTH

[krazeeboi]

The reason why I say that the Black church in general doesn't really deal with issues like this as it should is probably because we don't deal with issues like this as we should as a community first and foremost. If we did, we wouldn't have some of the highest HIV/AIDS infection and teenage birth rates in the nation. We aren't any more promiscuous than any other racial group, but we are disproportionately affected by things like this. I think it's part of an inherited unwritten rule that goes back to slavery which has been passed down culturally where we simply don't talk about things like this.

[giantsdodie]

While i totally feel where you are coming from again I cannot totally agree or lay the blame at the fooy of the Black Church. The issue is sin. The church preaches and teaches against sin. The church preaches and teached against homosexuality, adultery, fornication and sexual perversion. I cannot agree that the church doesnt teach against these issues because I have seen far too much teaching over the years directly addressing these issues. The church preaches and teaches deliverance and abstinence.

The problem however is that the church cannot MAKE folks do right and MAKE folks live right. That is a personal choice.

[Nikkol]

There are many that teach AGAINST things....but I think that some are lacking the "how".

You have someone who's attracted to someone of the same sex....do you handle it saying, "If you don't stop liking ppl of the same sex you're going to hell?" Do you say "OK, everyone has something they're struggling with but we want to make sure that you don't find yourself committing the act?" Many would say the former and you have many men (and even women more than in times past) beating themselves up and thinking that God hates them, etc. because no matter what, they still find someone of the same sex attractive. PPl are "called out" in services saying you have a "homosexual spirit" which just MARKS them for the enemy (and those who are dealing with it "secretly"). You have the turn around three times, walk up and down the church, sling the oil, laying on of hands, knocking ppl on the floor, wrapping them up in cloth....the list goes on and on and on....and many still struggle. But now they "mask" it more because they don't want ppl to know that "it didn't work".....it's really something that the church (as a whole) needs to deal with and know how we should handle it.


Side Note: But a lot depends on where ppl say the sin lies....do we say that if someone is attracted to a person of the same sex, is that "sin"? And if so, if someone is married and attracted to someone who isn't their wife, would that be sin? Most would say the latter is fine.....but is that worse/better than the former?

[krazeeboi]

Sis. Nikkol, you pretty much said it.

[Beulah5]

I have to respectfully agree with Giants on this.

[krazeeboi]

So then I guess you guys are willing to admit that, given the statistics, Blacks are simply more promiscuous and sexually depraved by nature than any other race of people? Because just about every negative sexually-related statistic that's out there, we're tops in that category. I'm sorry, but I can't buy that. The Black church hasn't done a good job of dealing with these issues because the Black community hasn't done a good job of dealing with these issues.

I'll echo some of the sentiments of Bishop Harry Jackson, senior pastor of Hope Christian Church in Washington, D.C., and founder of the High Impact Leadership Coalition, in an interview he had with NPR:

There's been a de facto don't ask, don't tell kind of policy in the black church. And although most African-Americans, if polled, would say they're against same-sex marriage, the fact is that we have many, many friends, brothers, cousins, who happened to be gay - we are attempting to minister to them...

And I think that there needs to be a raising of the bar morally in the black church, whether it be heterosexual or gay sexual practices. Because we're having too many babies out of wedlock, we're having dysfunctional disintegration of the black families we've already eluded to. And I think that has to do with the fact that we aren't preaching a moral standard and we are not encouraging people how to develop and prolong their relationships.

[giantsdodie]

Sept 21, 2009 9:31:00 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

There are many that teach AGAINST things....but I think that some are lacking the "how".

You have someone who's attracted to someone of the same sex....do you handle it saying, "If you don't stop liking ppl of the same sex you're going to hell?" Do you say "OK, everyone has something they're struggling with but we want to make sure that you don't find yourself committing the act?" Many would say the former and you have many men (and even women more than in times past) beating themselves up and thinking that God hates them, etc. because no matter what, they still find someone of the same sex attractive. PPl are "called out" in services saying you have a "homosexual spirit" which just MARKS them for the enemy (and those who are dealing with it "secretly"). You have the turn around three times, walk up and down the church, sling the oil, laying on of hands, knocking ppl on the floor, wrapping them up in cloth....the list goes on and on and on....and many still struggle. But now they "mask" it more because they don't want ppl to know that "it didn't work".....it's really something that the church (as a whole) needs to deal with and know how we should handle it.


Side Note: But a lot depends on where ppl say the sin lies....do we say that if someone is attracted to a person of the same sex, is that "sin"? And if so, if someone is married and attracted to someone who isn't their wife, would that be sin? Most would say the latter is fine.....but is that worse/better than the former?

Again I have to state that a lot of this kind of deliverance in the church occurs in PRIVATE counseling. By and large you are not going to find many people who do an open teaching on homosexuality across the Sunday pulpit because plain it simple it doesnt apply to everybody.

Lets ask a few questions. As a ministerr of the gospel of Jesus Christ is it my responsibility to teach what is topical and controversial OR is it my responsibility to teach and preach that the LORD is instructing us to teach and preach.

It should always be the latter and that may mean that what someone else thinks or believes should be taught may not be taught at that time or at that season.

Now that doesnt mean that it is not BEING taught. Lets face facts. The church ( at least the true church ) has CLEARLY taught that homosexuality is sin. The Bible teaches us that homosexuality is sin. Period. The Bible and the church have both taught on deliverance. The Bible teaches us how to OVERCOME our sin. Romans 6,7,8 are VERY good for this.

This isnt just for homosexuality but it addresses all sin and all sexual sin as well.

We are also taught in the Word of GOD that the sin is NOT in the action. The sin is in the THOUGHTS and the HEART of a man. So just telling people not to ACT OUT on what is sin doesnt mean its still not sin...

What did Jesus say about this issue..

Matthew 5

28 But I say to you that everyone who so much as looks at a woman with evil desire for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now thsi can apply to homosexuality as well. The DESIRE for someone of the same sex is sin. PERIOD. Whether you act out on the desire in pursuit or not.

Here is the issue...

1) Homosexuality is not a demon. Its a manifestation. It is actually the manifestation of several spirits working together. The Spirit of Perversion or what the Bible calls a Perverse Spirit (Isaiah 19:14) This spirit perverts GOD's natural ordained order and causes confusion and error. It is a manifestation of the Spirit of Bondage (Romans 8:15), which seeks to entrap one in this lifestyle. It is a manifestion of the Spirit of Whoredoms which is detailed in Hosea 4:12.

2) Part of our issue is that we keep attacking manifestations and NOT The strongman.

Matthew 12
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

3) The other part of deliverance which is the one in all honesty we dont like to deal with is US. WE have to be honest and WE have to take an ACTIVE part in our deliverance. This is the renewing of THE MIND. This is the area where the enemy attacks us.. THE MIND.. He tells us you will always be this way. He will tell you the lie that you CANNOT control your thoughts. As long as you dont act on the thoughts you are ok.. THATS A LIE..

James 1

13 Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted from God; for God is incapable of being tempted by [what is] evil and He Himself tempts no one.

14 But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions).

15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death.

16 Do not be misled, my beloved brethren.

so then what is the answer

21 So get rid of all uncleanness and the rampant outgrowth of wickedness, and in a humble (gentle, modest) spirit receive and welcome the Word which implanted and rooted [in your hearts] contains the power to save your souls.

But I cant control my thoughts.. I cant control my mind.. LIE from the devil....

Col. 3:2 - "set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth" *

Rom. 12:2 - "be transformed by the renewing of your mind" *

Phil. 2:5 - "have this mind in you which was also in Christ Jesus"

Phil. 4:8 - "whatever is true, right, pure...let your mind dwell on these..."

How do we fight the thoughts and desires that come??

1 Peter 1:13-14, “Prepare. . . your minds for action. . . . Do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance

And what I believe is the most powerful scripture in the Word of GOD to take AUTHORITY over our mind...

II COR 3:5

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


Here is the reality.. Deliverance must be FOUGHT for.. and it must be MAINTAINED. You will NEVER be exempt from being tempted. However temptation is NOT sin. If it was JESUS would have sinned. HE was tempted in every like manner like we are but HE was without sin. However you CAN fight against the temptation when it comes. We all have battles. I have mine. I have had seasons of tremendous victory.. and I mean seasons.. years.. and I have had moments of abject failure.

The key is what do you do when you fail. You repent.. You confess your sins to GOD.. You get back up.. You start moving FORWARD again.. You dont look back.. You do what the WORD says.. Keep you EYE on HIM.. You do what you need to do to MAINTAIN your deliverance. You pray.. You fast.. You read the Word.. You SPEAK The WORD.. and that very important.. SPEAKING the WORD of GOD.. You Sumbit yourself to GOD FIRST.. then you RESIST The devil.. and you watch him flee...

This is applicable to anything in our lives.

We cant put all the onus on the church..
We cant put all the onus even on GOD...

We have to DESIRE To be free.. WE have to take an ACTIVE part in our deliverance..

Lemme tell you about flesh.. aka the sin mature...

First off we have t recognize that sin is OUR MORTAL ENEMY...

It has ONE JOB...

TO KILL YOU.. PERIOD..

The sooner we realize that the better...

The flesh is like the Terminator.. It cant be bargained with.. It cant be reasoned with.. It absolutely will not stop...

The only solution is..

KILL IT !!!

Colossians 3 (Amplified)

5 So kill (deaden, deprive of power) the evil desire lurking in your members [those animal impulses and all that is earthly in you that is employed in sin]: sexual vice, impurity, sensual appetites, unholy desires, and all greed and covetousness, for that is idolatry (the deifying of self and other created things instead of God).



Now amazingly GOD is not going to kill our flesh.. He renews our spirit. He helps in the transformation of our mind. He EMPOWERS us with the Holy Ghost, and HIS WORD ye because we are co laborers with HIM so we have a part to play..

There is only one way to kill flesh.. starve it to death.. dont give it what it wants.. usually when flesh starts crying LOUDLY its because its DYING !!!!

ALSO we need to change our confessions..

The Bible does not call us strugglers.. It calls us CONQUERORS.. VICTORS...

SURE you might be in a fight.. we are all often in a fight..

But here is a clue.. ITS A FIXED FIGHT !!!! You already have the VICTORY through JESUS CHRIST your LORD....

So as I always say.. IF YOU FIGHT.. YOU WIN !!!!! you only lose when you STOP fighting..

A boxer can enter a fight.. and he might lose a few rounds here and there but the goal is to WIN THE FIGHT !!!!!

Here is an excerpt from a Word of the Lord to our church that I feel led to share here

It was titled..

THE CHAMP IS HERE

Go into the fight KNOWING you are the winner, not just a winner but THE winner because you have the VICTOR living in you !!!


You have to fight. Put your armor back on, sharpen your sword (get back in your word), and get back in the fight.

You are the champ because the CHAMPION lives in you. The Champ faces all comers. There are MANDATORY challenges you must face but you have the victory because the VICTOR is living in you. Don’t be moved by what you feel or what you see because you have the VICTOR living in you.

You have got to get ready to move up in weight class. New challenges, New fight. New titles. This requires New Power, New Technique and New Skill. This will lead to New Victories, New Glory and New Revelation of who I AM in you.

one last thing I would like to share..

Most of this I learned in church.. while fighting my own battles against lust. was a fornicator and a whoremonger. I slept with a few women even after salvation. I was exposed to pornography at a young age and dealt with it most of my adult life in some form or another. I have battled it even post salvation and I have had periods of tremendous victory (several years) and some moments of abject stupidity where I have had to dust myself off.. repent.. seek forgiveness.. ACCEPT forgiveness ( thata huge one ) and keep pressing FORWARD...

One thing I have learned in this walk.. the more I chase after JESUS.. the farther away I get from mess.. I have also learned you cannot see JESUS if you keep your mess in front of your face..

We have become vry sin concious in the church.. and that not suck a bad thing because we need to recognize what is sin.. However we cannot become to sin concious that we lose sight of JESUS in the process... We have been taught to pursue deliverance but i am of the mindset that we need to pursue HOLINESS...

and for anyone that reads this that might be FIGHTING ( not struggling ) with an issue here is a post that helped me many years ago..

www.ldolphin.org/twoofme.html

BTW I learned most of this stuff in church.. not some deliverence seminar or workshop.

And even if we dont have teaching in our church we still have teh GREATEST teacher of all..

JESUS CHRIST...

He died so we could be free...

We can fight to keep what is RIGHTFULLY ours... purchased by HIS BLOOD...

[krazeeboi]

Let me just focus on one part of what you said, Giants.

We are also taught in the Word of GOD that the sin is NOT in the action. The sin is in the THOUGHTS and the HEART of a man. So just telling people not to ACT OUT on what is sin doesnt mean its still not sin...

What did Jesus say about this issue..

Matthew 5

28 But I say to you that everyone who so much as looks at a woman with evil desire for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now thsi can apply to homosexuality as well. The DESIRE for someone of the same sex is sin. PERIOD. Whether you act out on the desire in pursuit or not.

You also go on to say

However temptation is NOT sin.

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

First of all, I think there's a difference between "physical attraction" and "evil desire." If you say that a person being physically attracted to someone of the same sex is sin, then you would also have to say that a person, married or single, being physically attracted to someone of the opposite sex is sin as well because that person has already committed fornication or adultery with that person in his/her heart. No, an attraction to the same sex is not according to the natural order and is the result of the presence of sin in the world, but I don't think that the attraction itself is sin.

You also quoted James 1:14-15 which is a good one:

14 But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions).

15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death.

Now, I think we might be going in a somewhat different direction here, but bear with me for just a second.

According to James, an evil desire precedes temptation. You can only be tempted if FIRST you have an evil desire, and then are subsequently enticed by that evil desire. Now being that Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin, does this mean that Jesus had evil desires but was not drawn away or enticed by them?

Going back to something else you said:

Again I have to state that a lot of this kind of deliverance in the church occurs in PRIVATE counseling. By and large you are not going to find many people who do an open teaching on homosexuality across the Sunday pulpit because plain it simple it doesnt apply to everybody.

I also know that there isn't a whole lot of private, intense counseling that goes on with this particular issue, or other issues, in many churches also. Again, I think the larger, more progressive churches have made great progress in this area as many of them have professional, certified counselors on staff, but this is a far cry from being the norm.

[Nikkol]

Sept 21, 2009 13:47:00 GMT -5 krazeeboi said:

Let me just focus on one part of what you said, Giants.

We are also taught in the Word of GOD that the sin is NOT in the action. The sin is in the THOUGHTS and the HEART of a man. So just telling people not to ACT OUT on what is sin doesnt mean its still not sin...

What did Jesus say about this issue..

Matthew 5

28 But I say to you that everyone who so much as looks at a woman with evil desire for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now thsi can apply to homosexuality as well. The DESIRE for someone of the same sex is sin. PERIOD. Whether you act out on the desire in pursuit or not.

You also go on to say



Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

First of all, I think there's a difference between "physical attraction" and "evil desire." If you say that a person being physically attracted to someone of the same sex is sin, then you would also have to say that a person, married or single, being physically attracted to someone of the opposite sex is sin as well because that person has already committed fornication or adultery with that person in his/her heart. No, an attraction to the same sex is not according to the natural order and is the result of the presence of sin in the world, but I don't think that the attraction itself is sin.

You also quoted James 1:14-15 which is a good one:

14 But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions).

15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death.

Now, I think we might be going in a somewhat different direction here, but bear with me for just a second.

According to James, an evil desire precedes temptation. You can only be tempted if FIRST you have an evil desire, and then are subsequently enticed by that evil desire. Now being that Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin, does this mean that Jesus had evil desires but was not drawn away or enticed by them?

Going back to something else you said:

Again I have to state that a lot of this kind of deliverance in the church occurs in PRIVATE counseling. By and large you are not going to find many people who do an open teaching on homosexuality across the Sunday pulpit because plain it simple it doesnt apply to everybody.

I also know that there isn't a whole lot of private, intense counseling that goes on with this particular issue, or other issues, in many churches also. Again, I think the larger, more progressive churches have made great progress in this area as many of them have professional, certified counselors on staff, but this is a far cry from being the norm.

We need to have that "like" button....LOL

[Poetricia (G.A.P.)]

Sept 21, 2009 12:29:24 GMT -5 giantsdodie said:

Again I have to state that a lot of this kind of deliverance in the church occurs in PRIVATE counseling. By and large you are not going to find many people who do an open teaching on homosexuality across the Sunday pulpit because plain it simple it doesnt apply to everybody.

Lets ask a few questions. As a ministerr of the gospel of Jesus Christ is it my responsibility to teach what is topical and controversial OR is it my responsibility to teach and preach that the LORD is instructing us to teach and preach.

It should always be the latter and that may mean that what someone else thinks or believes should be taught may not be taught at that time or at that season.

Now that doesnt mean that it is not BEING taught. Lets face facts. The church ( at least the true church ) has CLEARLY taught that homosexuality is sin. The Bible teaches us that homosexuality is sin. Period. The Bible and the church have both taught on deliverance. The Bible teaches us how to OVERCOME our sin. Romans 6,7,8 are VERY good for this.

This isnt just for homosexuality but it addresses all sin and all sexual sin as well.

We are also taught in the Word of GOD that the sin is NOT in the action. The sin is in the THOUGHTS and the HEART of a man. So just telling people not to ACT OUT on what is sin doesnt mean its still not sin...

What did Jesus say about this issue..

Matthew 5

28 But I say to you that everyone who so much as looks at a woman with evil desire for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now thsi can apply to homosexuality as well. The DESIRE for someone of the same sex is sin. PERIOD. Whether you act out on the desire in pursuit or not.

Here is the issue...

1) Homosexuality is not a demon. Its a manifestation. It is actually the manifestation of several spirits working together. The Spirit of Perversion or what the Bible calls a Perverse Spirit (Isaiah 19:14) This spirit perverts GOD's natural ordained order and causes confusion and error. It is a manifestation of the Spirit of Bondage (Romans 8:15), which seeks to entrap one in this lifestyle. It is a manifestion of the Spirit of Whoredoms which is detailed in Hosea 4:12.

2) Part of our issue is that we keep attacking manifestations and NOT The strongman.

Matthew 12
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

3) The other part of deliverance which is the one in all honesty we dont like to deal with is US. WE have to be honest and WE have to take an ACTIVE part in our deliverance. This is the renewing of THE MIND. This is the area where the enemy attacks us.. THE MIND.. He tells us you will always be this way. He will tell you the lie that you CANNOT control your thoughts. As long as you dont act on the thoughts you are ok.. THATS A LIE..

James 1

13 Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted from God; for God is incapable of being tempted by [what is] evil and He Himself tempts no one.

14 But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions).

15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death.

16 Do not be misled, my beloved brethren.

so then what is the answer

21 So get rid of all uncleanness and the rampant outgrowth of wickedness, and in a humble (gentle, modest) spirit receive and welcome the Word which implanted and rooted [in your hearts] contains the power to save your souls.

But I cant control my thoughts.. I cant control my mind.. LIE from the devil....

Col. 3:2 - "set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth" *

Rom. 12:2 - "be transformed by the renewing of your mind" *

Phil. 2:5 - "have this mind in you which was also in Christ Jesus"

Phil. 4:8 - "whatever is true, right, pure...let your mind dwell on these..."

How do we fight the thoughts and desires that come??

1 Peter 1:13-14, “Prepare. . . your minds for action. . . . Do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance

And what I believe is the most powerful scripture in the Word of GOD to take AUTHORITY over our mind...

II COR 3:5

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


Here is the reality.. Deliverance must be FOUGHT for.. and it must be MAINTAINED. You will NEVER be exempt from being tempted. However temptation is NOT sin. If it was JESUS would have sinned. HE was tempted in every like manner like we are but HE was without sin. However you CAN fight against the temptation when it comes. We all have battles. I have mine. I have had seasons of tremendous victory.. and I mean seasons.. years.. and I have had moments of abject failure.

The key is what do you do when you fail. You repent.. You confess your sins to GOD.. You get back up.. You start moving FORWARD again.. You dont look back.. You do what the WORD says.. Keep you EYE on HIM.. You do what you need to do to MAINTAIN your deliverance. You pray.. You fast.. You read the Word.. You SPEAK The WORD.. and that very important.. SPEAKING the WORD of GOD.. You Sumbit yourself to GOD FIRST.. then you RESIST The devil.. and you watch him flee...

This is applicable to anything in our lives.

We cant put all the onus on the church..
We cant put all the onus even on GOD...

We have to DESIRE To be free.. WE have to take an ACTIVE part in our deliverance..

Lemme tell you about flesh.. aka the sin mature...

First off we have t recognize that sin is OUR MORTAL ENEMY...

It has ONE JOB...

TO KILL YOU.. PERIOD..

The sooner we realize that the better...

The flesh is like the Terminator.. It cant be bargained with.. It cant be reasoned with.. It absolutely will not stop...

The only solution is..

KILL IT !!!

Colossians 3 (Amplified)

5 So kill (deaden, deprive of power) the evil desire lurking in your members [those animal impulses and all that is earthly in you that is employed in sin]: sexual vice, impurity, sensual appetites, unholy desires, and all greed and covetousness, for that is idolatry (the deifying of self and other created things instead of God).



Now amazingly GOD is not going to kill our flesh.. He renews our spirit. He helps in the transformation of our mind. He EMPOWERS us with the Holy Ghost, and HIS WORD ye because we are co laborers with HIM so we have a part to play..

There is only one way to kill flesh.. starve it to death.. dont give it what it wants.. usually when flesh starts crying LOUDLY its because its DYING !!!!

ALSO we need to change our confessions..

The Bible does not call us strugglers.. It calls us CONQUERORS.. VICTORS...

SURE you might be in a fight.. we are all often in a fight..

But here is a clue.. ITS A FIXED FIGHT !!!! You already have the VICTORY through JESUS CHRIST your LORD....

So as I always say.. IF YOU FIGHT.. YOU WIN !!!!! you only lose when you STOP fighting..

A boxer can enter a fight.. and he might lose a few rounds here and there but the goal is to WIN THE FIGHT !!!!!

Here is an excerpt from a Word of the Lord to our church that I feel led to share here

It was titled..

THE CHAMP IS HERE

Go into the fight KNOWING you are the winner, not just a winner but THE winner because you have the VICTOR living in you !!!


You have to fight. Put your armor back on, sharpen your sword (get back in your word), and get back in the fight.

You are the champ because the CHAMPION lives in you. The Champ faces all comers. There are MANDATORY challenges you must face but you have the victory because the VICTOR is living in you. Don’t be moved by what you feel or what you see because you have the VICTOR living in you.

You have got to get ready to move up in weight class. New challenges, New fight. New titles. This requires New Power, New Technique and New Skill. This will lead to New Victories, New Glory and New Revelation of who I AM in you.

one last thing I would like to share..

Most of this I learned in church.. while fighting my own battles against lust. was a fornicator and a whoremonger. I slept with a few women even after salvation. I was exposed to pornography at a young age and dealt with it most of my adult life in some form or another. I have battled it even post salvation and I have had periods of tremendous victory (several years) and some moments of abject stupidity where I have had to dust myself off.. repent.. seek forgiveness.. ACCEPT forgiveness ( thata huge one ) and keep pressing FORWARD...

One thing I have learned in this walk.. the more I chase after JESUS.. the farther away I get from mess.. I have also learned you cannot see JESUS if you keep your mess in front of your face..

We have become vry sin concious in the church.. and that not suck a bad thing because we need to recognize what is sin.. However we cannot become to sin concious that we lose sight of JESUS in the process... We have been taught to pursue deliverance but i am of the mindset that we need to pursue HOLINESS...

and for anyone that reads this that might be FIGHTING ( not struggling ) with an issue here is a post that helped me many years ago..

www.ldolphin.org/twoofme.html

BTW I learned most of this stuff in church.. not some deliverence seminar or workshop.

And even if we dont have teaching in our church we still have teh GREATEST teacher of all..

JESUS CHRIST...

He died so we could be free...

We can fight to keep what is RIGHTFULLY ours... purchased by HIS BLOOD...

INSERT LIKE BUTTON ***HERE*** ;D

[Nikkol]

GIANTS: So would it be fair to say that if a person is attracted to a woman who is not their wife, it is just as bad as a man/woman being attracted to someone of the same sex?

Additionally, would both actions (even if no sexual encounter is had) be considered sin?

[giantsdodie]

Sept 22, 2009 9:21:38 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

GIANTS: So would it be fair to say that if a person is attracted to a woman who is not their wife, it is just as bad as a man/woman being attracted to someone of the same sex?

Additionally, would both actions (even if no sexual encounter is had) be considered sin?

Define what you mean by attracted to. I have a definition that I understand. I want to be understand your definition..

In my definition it would be yes.. it would be sin...

[krazeeboi]

As I stated above, I make a distinction between "physical attraction" and "evil desire" or "lust." I do not see in Scripture where it would be a sin to be physically attracted to someone one is not married to. Otherwise, you would have committed a sin by being physically attracted to the woman who you would later marry and make your wife, because at that time y'all weren't married. And there's no way you can tell me that you only became physically attracted to her after y'all married, because there's absolutely no way I'd believe you, LOL.

[fellowcitizen]

FLAWS & ALL

An angel of the lord came to me in a dream with a message from God. As the angel got closer to me all my emotions were moving at once. I saw its eyes and I became fixated upon them. As I continued to stare into the angels eyes I could see everything that was going on in my surroundings and I knew she could hear my thoughts. I was thinking in my mind; “wow she is so beautiful”, but as the angel got closer I realized it was neither male nor female. Occupied by the angels beauty it took out a stick from its robe and rammed it in my left side. I immediately grabbed my side, the pain was excruciating to the point it pushed me out my dream state. As I awakened I was still holding my left side. I was in pain for 3 days straight. I asked the lord to take the pain away and on the 3rd day he told me NO that it was my THORN.

2 Cor. 12:5-10
5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

After reading this scripture, with much worry and concern, I began say. I don’t want this thing in me, how can I serve you with this? SERVE ME WITH GLADNESS! It’s painful? MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT! Can anyone else see it? MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT! What will they think? MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT! I don’t like it. MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT, SERVE ME WITH GLADNESS was His answer to my every complaint. He told me He measured out His grace for me to fit every situation I will ever face. He told me that I needed this thorn TO KEEP ME HUMBLED, (you know you can be judgmental and prideful sometimes). TO KEEP ME SAFE, (for you have and you will suffer much from the agent of the evil one and I don’t want you thinking it’s you doing something wrong all the time, there is no commendation in me, so son stop blaming yourself so much.) TO KEEP HIM FIRST (if I take this thorn away you will not be able to walk in my true anointing (power) for your life. You will become prideful and glory in yourself and NO FLESH SHALL GLORY IN MY SIGHT).

He told me to remember that before He formed me in the belly He knew me and before I was born He called me and sanctified me. He said, Detrick you will be broken for the wholeness of others. You will go through to help others come out. At times you will be ravished and torn to only to repair and restore. I know everything you will EVER do, EVER go through. All of your victories, your accomplishments, your hang-ups, your problems, your failures, all your short comings, yet I still love you, I still cover you, I still called you FLAWS & ALL.


ADL
From the pen of a ready writer…

[Nikkol]

FELLOWCITIZEN: Good post
KRAZEE: That was funny

Sept 22, 2009 14:01:14 GMT -5 giantsdodie said:

Sept 22, 2009 9:21:38 GMT -5 Nikkol said:

GIANTS: So would it be fair to say that if a person is attracted to a woman who is not their wife, it is just as bad as a man/woman being attracted to someone of the same sex?

Additionally, would both actions (even if no sexual encounter is had) be considered sin?

Define what you mean by attracted to. I have a definition that I understand. I want to be understand your definition..

In my definition it would be yes.. it would be sin...

When I think of attraction what comes to my mind is something that draws you..."catches your interest" (ie for some it could be certain colors/clothing/ppl/etc)