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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 3, 2006 13:10:51 GMT -5
SOON TO COME
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Post by krazeeboi on Aug 5, 2006 21:14:01 GMT -5
How about a thread discussing OT prophesy (and prophets) and NT prophesy (and prophets), similiarities and differences.
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Aug 6, 2006 6:12:21 GMT -5
you can get it started or use this one for that purpose -- it is kinda where I wanted to go with this anyway (just haven't found the time to get it together)
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Post by giantsdodie on Aug 6, 2006 8:38:17 GMT -5
I would like to see this as well as personally to a degree I see no differences ( although there are some ).
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Post by krazeeboi on Aug 9, 2006 0:57:38 GMT -5
The major difference I see is that the prophet's role is not as authoritative today as it was in the OT. In this dispensation, the prophet is subject to the Church, and not vice versa.
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Post by giantsdodie on Aug 9, 2006 8:07:24 GMT -5
The major difference I see is that the prophet's role is not as authoritative today as it was in the OT. In this dispensation, the prophet is subject to the Church, and not vice versa. Well in the OT there was no church. God only spoke to His people through the mouths of His prophets. In this dispensation according to the Word of God He speaks by His dear Son who can speak to and through any believer. However the bible says that the apostle and the prophets are the foundation of the church of which Jesus Christ is the cornerstone. It seems to me that while the prophet is not the primary ministry in the Body of Christ there is still a very important foundational service performed by prophets today. |
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Post by krazeeboi on Aug 9, 2006 14:15:15 GMT -5
Substitute "Church" for "people of God." In other words, in the OT, what the prophet said went. It was THE authoritative word from God and there was no such thing as judging the prophecy or what had you. Of course if the word was predictive in nature and did not come to pass, then the people had the right to eliminate that prophet from their midst. But in the NT, prophets and prophecies are subject to the discernment and judgment of the Church in a way that was not true of Israel and the OT prophets.
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Post by ybrown on Aug 10, 2006 12:13:32 GMT -5
I'm still learning all of this, but the HS tapped me on the shoulder when I read something.
Does the Ephesians passage (2:20) say that apostles and prophets are the foundation of the church or that the church was built (past tense) upon the foundation of a specific group of apostles and prophets?
Can we also look at Eph. 3:5 to confirm this, which says that Christ's mystery concerning the church was "revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit"?
Christ is talking about HIS apostles and prophets and not an office(s) that may not even still operate today, which is debatable.
I'm going by scripture and changing one word to present tense changes the whole meaning of it. Please correct me if I'm wrong as this subject is very new to me.
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Post by giantsdodie on Aug 10, 2006 12:31:45 GMT -5
Well i dont believe it is debatable the office of the apsotle and the prophet still exist today and I believe that since the church is still in operation today and will be so until Jesus comes . I blelieve this based on Ephesians 4 KJV 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Are we perfect yet.. Nope. Are we all in the unity of the faith yet.. nope, is the work of the ministry still need to be done ?? yep... Does the body need to be edified.. yup... So all the gifts that Jesus gave to the church are still working.. not just evangelist and pastor and teacher but apostle and prophet as well. Looking at Ephesians 2 Amplified version 19Therefore you are no longer outsiders (exiles, migrants, and aliens, excluded from the rights of citizens), but you now share citizenship with the saints (God's own people, consecrated and set apart for Himself); and you belong to God's [own] household. 20 You are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Christ Jesus Himself the chief Cornerstone. ARE is a present tense verb. While for us looking backwards it can be seen as past tense but We as the Body of Believers aka the Church were built, ARE built, and are still being built 21 In Him the whole structure is joined (bound, welded) together harmoniously, and it continues to rise (grow, increase) into a holy temple in the Lord .
As we are growing and increasing we still need the foundation and the cornerstone to support.
22 In Him [and in fellowship with one another] you yourselves also are being built up [into this structure] with the rest, to form a fixed abode (dwelling place) of God in (by, through) the Spirit.
One thing I have found is that the Word of God is often dualistic in its meanings. It can speak to bother a natural and a spiritual component simultaneosly.
So I would not say that you are wrong. I would say that the meaning of the word has not changed but depending on our application or understanding we can arrive at a different view.
Some people erroneously believe that the apostles and prophets died out or something with the first century church or were no longer in use after the bible was written. Both of these positions are in error. The Word shows us clearly they were set in the church BY Jesus and have to function until the church age is over.
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Post by ybrown on Aug 10, 2006 13:07:23 GMT -5
Thank you. I will look further into it.  |
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Post by krazeeboi on Aug 10, 2006 20:43:48 GMT -5
Even though I believe in the continuance of the apostolic "office," I also believe that the Twelve are of a special group and that they had a special type of authority that apostles since do not have.
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Post by giantsdodie on Aug 10, 2006 23:34:14 GMT -5
I believe that God has used a lot of people tremendously over the ages. Some we have heard of and some we have never heard of. There were Apostles after the twelve who were mighty men of God. Paul wasnt one of the original twelve yet God used him tremendously. What i do believe is they were sold out in a way that many of us are not sold out today and because of that they were able to be used in a way that many of us cannot be used today.
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Post by keita on Aug 11, 2006 10:18:25 GMT -5
...What i do believe is they were sold out in a way that many of us are not sold out today and because of that they were able to be used in a way that many of us cannot be used today... |
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Post by keita on Aug 11, 2006 14:14:06 GMT -5
Substitute "Church" for "people of God."... pssst, bro kb! Your "Augustine" is showing! LOL!!! I know that's your boy and all, but even in passing, (and even when followed by a great point, like you made with the rest of your post), "replacement theology" sounding language always gets my attention... But that's a subject for another thread, isn't it? ;)LOL! |
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Post by krazeeboi on Aug 11, 2006 22:39:47 GMT -5
LOL, I didn't mean to go down the "covenant theology" road (which is a theology I don't really align myself with), but in this case, I think the point was valid.
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