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Post by vin on Sept 23, 2008 22:44:14 GMT -5
I'm reminded of the prophet who God told to marry the whore. He married her and she went out and whored around some more...What was her name? It keeps slipping right through my head!  Anyway she kept running back to the streets and he kept going back to get her and bring her right back home, only for her to go back whoring again again. She even had children that he knew weren't his. But God put a love in his heart for her and he continued to go back and bring her back home. What kind of physical danger was he himself in every time he brought her back home and laid with her again? Sexual immorality opens you up to all kinds of infections and diseases. But he kept her because God told him to. He loved her because God placed a love in his heart for her. And because he obeyed God by marrying her and keeping her God protected him and then used the marriage as a point of ministry to His people. I'm also reminded of the prostitute who helped the spies when God took the wall of Jericho down. Rahab, right? Not only did she help them but did she not wind up in the lineage of Christ? A prostitute who was no way clean. But she wound up marrying, having sex with and having a baby with somebody and wound up playing a part in the coming of the Messiah. So I'm basically saying what some of the others are saying, If GOD SAID IT, it would be safer to walk into a situation with someone who is HIV positive and be protected by God, than to walk into a situation with someone you think has a clean bill of health and wind up dying from the very thing you were trying to avoid. The safest place is in the will of God. Some might think God wouldn't put you with someone with HIV. Maybe that's the big difference of opinion. But that's not the main point to me. To me the main point is that I must believe that where ever God sends you, to whomever He sends you, He must have the power to keep you while you're there. If not, He's just setting you up to be destroyed and we know God doesn't work like that. |
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Post by vin on Sept 23, 2008 22:56:03 GMT -5
I doubt a group of Christian men would debate this... If they didn't want to do it then they wouldn't feel the least bit concerned that it would be God's will... Because they are at least of the mind set that God will send them someone that they want. Not perfect... But at least someone they can have sex with safely. Period.
I think it's because men think differently about sex than women. They almost think with their other head. The way to a man's heart is through sex and the way to sex with a woman is through her heart so yes a man would drop a woman in a New York minute over much less than this if it mean hindering sex. That's why they get married so fast after losing a wife, most of the time already having the next one waiting in the wings. I understand that Magic has access to medications but I also understand the he was prophesied to that God was going to preserve his life. So to me the Word from the Lord supercedes whatever medications he's taking. If God hadn't sent that word to him he'd probably be dead now anyway, medications and all. The main reason I say that is because there is someone that I loved with all my heart. I found out later that he is HIV positive. He has been positive for just over 22 years, since he was a diagnosed as a freshman in college. He has NEVER taken any medications. He didn't even tell anyone for 5 years and it was a few more years before he even had any physical tests done, like that t-cell count stuff I think. He's still as strong as ever and still does not take medications. He doesn't get sick. I had been worried about him for a long time until early this year I was visiting a church and the Pastor called out the man's name and asked who knew him. I went up and I told him that he was someone I used to know and that he was HIV positive. He prayed for me and told me that God said he is going to take care of him and keep him here. He's not going any where. If he stepped up to any of us you wouldn't know he was HIV positive until he told you. And if God told me I was to marry him I'd be afraid not to. Yes I'd have some concerns, I think that's natural. But I'd also be concerned about not marrying him if I knew God was telling me to. |
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Post by kitty on Sept 24, 2008 6:53:46 GMT -5
Hey Guys,
Vin... I personally am not buying into the thought that Magic is still here because of a prophesy from God. Althought it may even be true because I wouldn't know if it isn't... I have to say that I have a great doubt about that. Especially knowing how Magic did contract the HIV virus... He did it because he slept around... A LOT!
Now that's not to say that Magic doesn't deserve to be healed. But the bible also states that God is not mocked! So I would have to say... Or at least ask... Why have Magic healed and someone completely innocent like the child Ryan White die? And like I said before... I have some reliable sources that state that Magic is STILL sleeping around.
I have have some major discussions with people high up in the medical field. In fact one of my mentors used to work for the CDC... ( Center of Disease Control) and personally was the one to tell me that every week Magic is having some treatments that are not made known to the general public.
Could that be the way God blessed him? Absolutely!
Also Vin in regards to the friend that you have... I know that he is someone that you care about deeply. But considering how this virus is spread and the natures of men... Ask yourself this question...
Do you think he has not had sex in all of these 22 years? And if he has had it for 22 years... that places his knowledge of the disease back in 1986... Then think about the fact that most people have had the disease for at least 6 months or more before finding out. The test to determine if one had the HIV virus wasn't even developed until some time in the 80's... So thre no telling how long your friend may have even had the disease before he even found out.
So Vin... think about this... in all that time that you are greatful for your friend being alive... I would say that the chances that he gave the HIV virus to someone else who probably ended up dying is very high... More than a 50% chance... Especially considering that most people didn't know that they should be using condom back in the early 80's. In fact I would also go on to say this... Situations like your friend is not completely uncommon... In the 80's thre were several people out there who were positive but didn't believe it because they never got sick. They in turn gave the virus to thousands of other people! And those people died in short periods of time. This was one of the reasons that a person HIV + that has sex with someone without revealing it can go to jail... it is considered attempted murder.
Honestly People... I have to say this is where I draw my line in the sand...
I don't believe that God would send me a man that is HIV positive. I simply know too much and could never be comfortable... Not kissing, not sharing the same silverware, the same counter space... Cause after having microbiology... I'm clear that a virus is literally everywhere. It's there some way God could bless me through it probably? But why go into any marriage expecting a miracle? Not a fansty but literally a miracle!
For me it would be a death sentence and I would feel mistreated...
Vin... I know that there are plenty of other things that life brings... I'm clearly able to deal with those... But HIV is where I draw the line... I wouldn't do it... If God told me too... We'd end up in a very heated battle and I would be somewhere in a whale like Jona...
Just being honest....
Yeah folks can come on that blast me for a lack of faith... But think about this...
The average Christian also has problems obeying God to stop smoking, doing drugs, and over eating...
I doubt God would strike me down for this one.
Kitty
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 24, 2008 6:55:42 GMT -5
My point about fantasy was not about sex in any way. It was about the fairytale that leads to unrealistic expectations. About thinking that if God brought the two of us together we are somehow going to ride off into the sunset, have the most wonderful marriage, not have many challenges and when we do, overcome them with hardly no effort. We don't voice these fantasies but they come to the surface when we are faced with real life challenges, like in the areas of finances and physical illness. How many men have gone and gotten another women when he found out his wife had breast cancer only to have the wife survive it? But he wasn't even willing to see it through and be faithful. His little fantasy bubble got busted so he tipped out. How many pastors have been remarried within 3 months after burying their wives? Because they broke the deal long before she died. The fantasy is over and they've gone and gotten another one. The fantasy I'm talking about is the one that says that real life doesn't happen and a part of real life might be sickness and death, or what we would call untimely death. The woman I know who lost her husband after only five years, I'm sure she was heartbroken and devastated, but I also be she she wouldn't trade those five years for anything in the world. There is another couple that comes to mind concerning the HIV question.... Dewayne Woods and his wife. She's still there. I don't know if they were married yet when he found out he was HIV positive but they are still together and he has the testimony now that he has been healed of AIDS. What if she had abandoned him? None of us knows what could be working in our bodies at this moment. It's the blood of Jesus covering and keeping us as healthy as we are. I think we should think carefully about how we answer the question because if I say that God sent me someone and I refused them for some reason, then by the same token I'm saying that I would leave them if the thing came up after I married him. SN: I don't think that just because someone gets married after 3 months of burying their spouse means that they broke the "deal"..... |
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 24, 2008 7:04:59 GMT -5
I doubt a group of Christian men would debate this... If they didn't want to do it then they wouldn't feel the least bit concerned that it would be God's will... Because they are at least of the mind set that God will send them someone that they want. Not perfect... But at least someone they can have sex with safely. Period.
I think it's because men think differently about sex than women. They almost think with their other head. The way to a man's heart is through sex and the way to sex with a woman is through her heart so yes a man would drop a woman in a New York minute over much less than this if it mean hindering sex. That's why they get married so fast after losing a wife, most of the time already having the next one waiting in the wings. I understand that Magic has access to medications but I also understand the he was prophesied to that God was going to preserve his life. So to me the Word from the Lord supercedes whatever medications he's taking. If God hadn't sent that word to him he'd probably be dead now anyway, medications and all. The main reason I say that is because there is someone that I loved with all my heart. I found out later that he is HIV positive. He has been positive for just over 22 years, since he was a diagnosed as a freshman in college. He has NEVER taken any medications. He didn't even tell anyone for 5 years and it was a few more years before he even had any physical tests done, like that t-cell count stuff I think. He's still as strong as ever and still does not take medications. He doesn't get sick. I had been worried about him for a long time until early this year I was visiting a church and the Pastor called out the man's name and asked who knew him. I went up and I told him that he was someone I used to know and that he was HIV positive. He prayed for me and told me that God said he is going to take care of him and keep him here. He's not going any where. If he stepped up to any of us you wouldn't know he was HIV positive until he told you. And if God told me I was to marry him I'd be afraid not to. Yes I'd have some concerns, I think that's natural. But I'd also be concerned about not marrying him if I knew God was telling me to. I think that you'd (general) be surprised that it appears that more women are more "sexually driven" than men. For the past year or 2, I've been running into more women who are more interested in sex whereas their husbands are not...... I also know women who wouldn't stay single long after their husband died...and it has nothing to do with already having someone "lined" up perse (although if you are a widow, you probably would know beforehand if someone is single) but rather that they know that being single for a long period of time isn't good for them.... and by the same token, there are men that if their wife died wouldn't get remarried...... I think that the gender differeces aren't as concrete as they use to be.... |
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 24, 2008 7:20:39 GMT -5
MT 5:45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
1 Cor 1:27-29
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
2Co 10:12
For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
You know what I've learned( and am still learning)? Sometimes, based on the knowledge that I have, I miss out on a lot of things that God has for me.
This is not to say that God would send someone that had a certain illness to you..... but the more I live, the more I see I'm not really living my own life and I have to continuously do as Paul said:
Ga 2:20 -
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
And that has to be our (general) goal in life. But Like GAP (i believe it was her) indicated, the question is more about if God said something can we obey? For some, they say yes? Others say no; while even others say "maybe". And so it's our job to work on saying "Yes"....and being in a place that we know God so well that we know HIS voice and therefore wouldn't follow the voice of a stranger..... make sense.
I do think that this question is a wakeup call for us all (me included. :-D )
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Post by vin on Sept 24, 2008 16:03:27 GMT -5
My point about fantasy was not about sex in any way. It was about the fairytale that leads to unrealistic expectations. About thinking that if God brought the two of us together we are somehow going to ride off into the sunset, have the most wonderful marriage, not have many challenges and when we do, overcome them with hardly no effort. We don't voice these fantasies but they come to the surface when we are faced with real life challenges, like in the areas of finances and physical illness. How many men have gone and gotten another women when he found out his wife had breast cancer only to have the wife survive it? But he wasn't even willing to see it through and be faithful. His little fantasy bubble got busted so he tipped out. How many pastors have been remarried within 3 months after burying their wives? Because they broke the deal long before she died. The fantasy is over and they've gone and gotten another one. The fantasy I'm talking about is the one that says that real life doesn't happen and a part of real life might be sickness and death, or what we would call untimely death. The woman I know who lost her husband after only five years, I'm sure she was heartbroken and devastated, but I also be she she wouldn't trade those five years for anything in the world. There is another couple that comes to mind concerning the HIV question.... Dewayne Woods and his wife. She's still there. I don't know if they were married yet when he found out he was HIV positive but they are still together and he has the testimony now that he has been healed of AIDS. What if she had abandoned him? None of us knows what could be working in our bodies at this moment. It's the blood of Jesus covering and keeping us as healthy as we are. I think we should think carefully about how we answer the question because if I say that God sent me someone and I refused them for some reason, then by the same token I'm saying that I would leave them if the thing came up after I married him. SN: I don't think that just because someone gets married after 3 months of burying their spouse means that they broke the "deal"..... What do you think it means? Do you think it means he never saw or met the woman while his wife was alive or while they were still married. Certainly looks suspect no matter how you look at it and it would certainly look suspect if a woman did it. |
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Post by vin on Sept 24, 2008 16:44:55 GMT -5
Kitty, How much I care about him really has nothing to do with anything other than it kept me in position to know that God is taking care of him. And that God cared enough about me to let me know that I don't have to worry about him. It's an awesome testimony and I feel blessed to know someone with that testimony. I don't know how many people he had sex with, before or after contracting the disease so I don't know how many or if any other people he may have given it to. It only takes one time and when I think of all the times I had unprotected sex I could have been dead by now myself. ( Lord knows I've had enough "infections" and pretty much all of them were given to me by my ex husband! Only GOD knows where all he'd been.) He was a member of a football team that gave blood on a regular basis as part of community service. So he wouldn't have had it too long before finding out. As he tells his story "this particular time" before he was able to go in and give blood he was pulled aside and told. So it wasn't something I don't believe, that would have been in his body for years. No more than a few months. And again, I don't know how many girls he had had sex with. He might have only been with the one he got the virus from. It may have been a relationship that was exclusive. All men aren't dogs and sleep around just because they have penises. I know it's hard for us to believe that because of how many of us have been burned numberous times. But for me to believe otherwise would be to believe that I can't have a faithful husband. I'm sure his knowledge of the disease is a bit more broad then just back when he contracted it, (not sure if that's what you meant, forgive me if I misunderstood) He's lives and works in DC lobbying before congress and the presidential candidates for rights of people who are hiv infected. He fights for fair housing and he fights for the gov't to release to the general public the same meds that people like only Magic can afford. If God said He's keeping someone alive then that's what I believe. I also believe that Magic can be used as a testimony. He's not the only one who has slept around a lot. If that's the reason he has AIDS then most of us should have it, not to mention the ones who have been homosexual, bi-sexual and used drugs. His story just went public and I believe that one of the reasons God can use him as a testimony is because he is so public and is able to influence peoples decisions. We don't know why God allows one to live and another to die. Especially when the one living seemed to be or was the biggest cut-up. Maybe it's so He can have a testimony in the earth of His mercy and grace. If He killed everybody who committed fornication would any of us on this bb be alive to discuss this? We don't know why one person finds out they have cancer and then die the next month, and another person lives another two years, another goes in to remission and another gets completely healed. If I'm not mistaken one evangelist's husband was healed of cancer and then died in a car accident.  Go figure. [glow=red,2,300]Vin... I know that there are plenty of other things that life brings... I'm clearly able to deal with those... But HIV is where I draw the line... I wouldn't do it... If God told me too... We'd end up in a very heated battle and I would be somewhere in a whale like Jona... Just being honest....[/glow] The coolest part about it is God already knows who He can trust with what. Or what He wants us to do or what it will take to fulfill our purpose. |
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Post by vin on Sept 24, 2008 16:45:40 GMT -5
One of the questions that Bishop Jakes said you should ask before geting engaged ( i skipped over to that chapter because I wanted to know those questions!)is Do you know your HIV status? And then he goes on to talk about how as a pastor he has seen it from every angle.
Some couples get married without asking the question and then get married only to have one get infected by the other.
Other couples get to that stage and once one reveals that they are positive the engagement is broken because the other can't deal with it.
But he says there are others who even after finding out that one is positive makes the decision to go on with the engagement and marriage. His thought on that is just be informed. For God's sake don't marry someone without telling them you're positive or without the both of you knowing your current status.
I don't know what God would ask me to do that would scare me half to death. I've had my moments being scared that He would require me to stay single as much as I desire marriage. He knows how to push our buttons. It won't be HIV for most of us but it will be something, and it will be something you don't think you can handle. None of us will ever get around that.
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Post by Nikkol on Sept 25, 2008 6:52:35 GMT -5
One of the questions that Bishop Jakes said you should ask before geting engaged ( i skipped over to that chapter because I wanted to know those questions!)is Do you know your HIV status? And then he goes on to talk about how as a pastor he has seen it from every angle. Some couples get married without asking the question and then get married only to have one get infected by the other. Other couples get to that stage and once one reveals that they are positive the engagement is broken because the other can't deal with it. But he says there are others who even after finding out that one is positive makes the decision to go on with the engagement and marriage. His thought on that is just be informed. For God's sake don't marry someone without telling them you're positive or without the both of you knowing your current status. I don't know what God would ask me to do that would scare me half to death. I've had my moments being scared that He would require me to stay single as much as I desire marriage. He knows how to push our buttons. It won't be HIV for most of us but it will be something, and it will be something you don't think you can handle. None of us will ever get around that. I think what is "sadder" is that many ppl that get married nowadays have already been intimate with their soo to be spouse...... so in those cases, would that even come into discussion esp. since you've already "did the do"? |
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Post by vin on Sept 25, 2008 10:12:45 GMT -5
There's nothing or not much to be done or said for the ones who are already intimate, especially without using any protection. In this day and time that's just taking your life and placing it into the hands of another and hoping it's okay.
I know my status. Does everyone one here know yours? Are you sure you wouldn't be the one who turned out HIV positive in the relationship? Even if you haven't been active for years, the virus lies dormant for years....it's called being a non-progressor. Are we all sure of our status?
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Post by vin on Sept 25, 2008 10:21:58 GMT -5
Nikkol I agree with about getting to the YES with God. That's what I want. God has shown me over the past several years that even when I don't understand, agree, or like what He's doing He still knows what He's doing. He's not trying to destroy me. He's not mistreating me. There's a sister at my church who encouraged me so much one day when she said, Whatever you're going through it's because YOU'RE THE WOMAN FOR THE JOB.
That blessed me so. God doesn't choose us for things because He's going to use it to destroy us. He chooses us because He already knows that we have inside of us what it takes to make it through. So it's my job to train myself to agree with Him. To say yes to Him and trust Him with the outcome.
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Sept 25, 2008 10:42:21 GMT -5
I don't know what God would ask me to do that would scare me half to death. I've had my moments being scared that He would require me to stay single as much as I desire marriage. He knows how to push our buttons. It won't be HIV for most of us but it will be something, and it will be something you don't think you can handle. None of us will ever get around that. Excellent Points!!!! We won't always be allowed to pick and choose what tests/trials to accept. Some of our greatest blessings are directly connected to our greatest sacrifices. It's a hard thing, but we serve a big God. And what if we were the one HIV+, what then? p.s. yes, I know my status. I'm always amazed when I go for my annual (usually regular, but sometimes I'm a few months late) my doctor actually asks me 'do you want us to check for hepititus c and hiv?' i always say yes, even though i've been abstinent for 10+years. and so far so good to God be the Glory!!! |
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Post by krazeeboi on Nov 15, 2008 21:08:54 GMT -5
Wow, there seems to be a bit of misinformation here about HIV.
For one, it's nothing near the automatic death sentence that it used to be. These days, it's pretty much a manageable chronic illness, almost like diabetes--if the person is diagnosed early enough to get into treatment soon. A person anywhere between age 20 and 35 diagnosed within the past few years, if it's caught early and treatment is initiated soon thereafter, can easily live into his/her late 60's/early 70's. That's a near normal life expectancy. As a matter of fact, researchers are now finding out that more HIV+ people are actually dying from other things instead of the virus progressing into AIDS, like heart disease and the like. Now it could be that these things, though non-AIDS related, are related to the prescribed medicines or the virus itself, but the life expectancy for HIV patients has drastically increased in the past few years.
As far as a person contracting a super-mutated form of the virus from someone that's obviously already positive, I don't know where that's coming from. Every virus has the same basic life cycle, and the important thing is early diagnosis. That can't be stressed enough. Now what IS dangerous is when two positive persons have unprotected sex because they could each have two different strains of the virus, and then treating each person's illness becomes complicated. There are different ways of treating HIV, but the most common way is through the use of antiretrovirals, which attack the virus in a very basic way. There are other drugs which use a different route to attack the virus, but they aren't quite as common and are sometimes used as a last resort of sorts.
HIV is a very fragile virus and cannot live outside of the body very long at all. This is why using the same silverware, drinking glasses, etc. is really of no consequence. In all actuality, it's hard to contract HIV (aside from unsafe sex practices).
I was a biology major and took post-grad biology courses, so I know a little something here. I just wanted to provide that bit of information.
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Post by kitty on Nov 16, 2008 7:39:49 GMT -5
Krazeboi....
I'm not sure what information that you thought was incorrect that was posted... But I definitely can say I think you just posted a lot of scary misinfomation yourself when you suggest that HIV is simply a chronic disease that could simply be compared to the likes of diabetes...
That is WAY OFF BASE! Nothing could be further from the truth...
I'm not even sure what is more scary... The idea that HIV is compared to diabetes or the suggestion that more people that are HIV + are dying from illness such as heart disease rather than complications from HIV.... Trust me... those with heart disease are better off! LOL
When a person doesn have a working immune system... it really is just a matter of time before something takes them out...
I don't know where you got this information from... But most are based on the "FUTURE HOPES" of what medications could do for those that are HIV + but let me assure you... The majority of those people are still not living for 20+ years... I really suggest that you go to the National Center of Disease Control web site and look up some stats. on the ideas that you are suggesting here...
When you refer to the post that a person would catch a "super mutated" form of HIV virus from partner, what was stated is that if a person who is HIV +, has been treated with antiviral drugs.... Then turns around and infects someone else... Then the newly infected person is looking at having to take stronger drugs or different drugs than what the person who infected them was receiving....
Why? Because the HIV virus that person contacted has already been exposed to the drugs the original person had... Thus they are picked up the HIV fight literally where their partner has left off... Why because they have the EXACT SAME VIRUS... thus the effect of the disease are usually harsher on the newly infected person because a lot of the first line drugs may now either be less effective or non-effect. They received a virus that was already resistant.
Last time I check there were still concerns about mutation... I think it is safe to suggest that mutation is why more than of strain of the virus exist. So the idea that a super mutated form of HIV is floating around is already a given... That's also why as you posted above it is dangerous for 2 people already + to have sex and exchange HIV viruses... It can possibly result in a mutated HIV virus that is now stronger and resistant to antiviral drugs that either of the HIV +people were taking....
HIV is still the death sentence that it always was... the only difference that people have more drugs that may prolong their lives a little longer... and it not a gurantee that those antiviral drugs work for everyone... And YES some of the virus may mutate to the point that the drug becomes ineffective... then the person has to move on to a stronger drug... In most cases people are looking at going through several drugs in their life time... It is a given that their time on earth is only based on the amount of different drugs made possible... That do nothin but slow the virus down... It not a cure.
Lastly... Kraze...many people won't make those life expectany projections ( future hopes) because these antiviral drugs are NOT CHEAP!!! Nor are they FREE! So a lot of people die because they don't have same medical benefits as everyone else... Even if they get to go one round with the antiviral drugs... Their medical insurance will expire at some point and GOOD LUCK with finding another one with will agree to pay for a pre-existing condition such as being HIV +!!! Most people are lucky to still get covered while being heart patients and diabetics... People who have had cancer have a helluva time...... Many are never picked up again...
By the way Kraze... I too was a "bio-major" in college. In fact my original major was bio-engineering... I then went on to medical school in which my course work included molecular cell biology, physiology, histology, and literally I had a mini virology course one summer....
Kitty
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Go figure.