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Post by livinganewlife on Nov 10, 2008 16:48:39 GMT -5
As a person who has voted both Democrat and Republican and is listed as an independent voter on my voter's registration card; I have never heard any "black"person who didn't vote for Obama give me any good reasons as to why they weren't voting for him? They all just basically said it was a personal choice...now if it is personal than that is cool but don't come out publicly and announce you aren't voting for him and then when asked what's your reason go in hiding..... I don't agree with Obama's policies but I surely didn't agree with Sarah Palin at ALL and Lord knows that the MAIN REASON I voted for OBAMA was because he was BLACK!!!!!!! And I am not scared to say it  |
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Post by giantsdodie on Nov 10, 2008 16:55:35 GMT -5
You have the right to vote for whoever u want to vote for... However even when I asked your opinions or thoughts you declined to share your thoughts... I declined because I didn't understand why my vote could not remain PRIVATE. I declined because I didn't understand why people were questioning my vote. I declined because I have already been called a liar when I stated that abortion/gay were not the issue. Why would I subject myself to that again? Well you never really discussed what your vote was... I never got the opportunity to discuss with you who you were voting for, the whys and the why nots... I simply wanted to discuss your thoughts because you might have been able to provide an insight that I had overlooked or was unaware of. Again personally I would never ridicule a persons choice. I might disagree with your choice.. Your vote is very personal and you do have the right to reserve your opinion and thoughts.. However I believe to a certain degree its somewhat unfair to criticize what people said about your thoughts when we never go to actually see or discuss what they are. |
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 10, 2008 17:04:42 GMT -5
LANL, I am not going into hiding about my reasons for not voting Obama - this is a prime example of what I am talking about.
If you noticed - find the thread in which I was told that I am basically lying about voting the abortion/gay issue and you will find the day that I ceased speaking about the political race regularly on this board.
What is a "good" reason to you? It may be good to the voter but not to you.
Everyone here should know where I stand on abortion and homosexuality. It is no secret. Just that alone is cause for me NOT to vote for Obama however I was undecided until the night before the election. However, it was several reasons why I didn't vote for him:
Israel - is he really for Isreal?
Is he a natural born citizen?
abortion and what he said to planned parenthood.
civil unions
he believes there are several ways to get to heaven
tax plan - i think it will hurt more than help
I did agree with his health care plan. Now this is not to say that I was all gung ho about McCain/Palin for if that was the case then I would have been all over them. I was not, however I could not allow myself to not vote. I had no peace with not voting. I did what people on this board told me to do...pray. I prayed and felt peace with whom I voted for.
Regardless, of who was to get elected, I knew that prayer was on the agenda. I have nothing personal against Senator Obama, it truly was just the issues. I would pray for him as I would anyone else in office.
I do believe that America is going to reap what it has sown - again regardless of who was in office. It is time for all of us to pray...... democrat or republican should never be the issue. EVER!
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Nov 10, 2008 17:06:55 GMT -5
I declined because I didn't understand why my vote could not remain PRIVATE. I declined because I didn't understand why people were questioning my vote. I declined because I have already been called a liar when I stated that abortion/gay were not the issue. Why would I subject myself to that again? Well you never really discussed what your vote was... I never got the opportunity to discuss with you who you were voting for, the whys and the why nots... I simply wanted to discuss your thoughts because you might have been able to provide an insight that I had overlooked or was unaware of. Again personally I would never ridicule a persons choice. I might disagree with your choice.. Your vote is very personal and you do have the right to reserve your opinion and thoughts.. However I believe to a certain degree its somewhat unfair to criticize what people said about your thoughts when we never go to actually see or discuss what they are. Truth be told bro. You were not the one who did any of this - I believed that you were sincere when you asked. I just was tired when you did ask. And that is the honest to goodness truth. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Nov 10, 2008 17:33:08 GMT -5
This is why I say we need to pray. Because we can only know what a person says and THAT can very well be a complete lie. Also we dont know the heart of a man. However GOD does. We dont know completely what the will of GOD is in the earth. However we can seek GOD for HIS will and then believe that HE WILL bring it to pass.
I honestly believe that NO ONE rises to power ANYWHERE unless GOD allows it.
I domt agree with every plan that Obama has laid out. However I do believe that He is GOD's choice for this time and I do believe the hand of GOD is on him at this time. Its up to GOD to reveal HIS will to President Elect Obama and it is up to him to OBEY what GOD reveals.
This is why we need to pray and seek the Lord before we vote.
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Post by livinganewlife on Nov 10, 2008 17:39:43 GMT -5
LANL, I am not going into hiding about my reasons for not voting Obama - this is a prime example of what I am talking about. If you noticed - find the thread in which I was told that I am basically lying about voting the abortion/gay issue and you will find the day that I ceased speaking about the political race regularly on this board. What is a "good" reason to you? It may be good to the voter but not to you. Everyone here should know where I stand on abortion and homosexuality. It is no secret. Just that alone is cause for me NOT to vote for Obama however I was undecided until the night before the election. However, it was several reasons why I didn't vote for him: Israel - is he really for Isreal? Is he a natural born citizen? abortion and what he said to planned parenthood. civil unions he believes there are several ways to get to heaven tax plan - i think it will hurt more than help I did agree with his health care plan. Now this is not to say that I was all gung ho about McCain/Palin for if that was the case then I would have been all over them. I was not, however I could not allow myself to not vote. I had no peace with not voting. I did what people on this board told me to do...pray. I prayed and felt peace with whom I voted for. Regardless, of who was to get elected, I knew that prayer was on the agenda. I have nothing personal against Senator Obama, it truly was just the issues. I would pray for him as I would anyone else in office. I do believe that America is going to reap what it has sown - again regardless of who was in office. It is time for all of us to pray...... democrat or republican should never be the issue. EVER! I really wasn't talking about you....I was speaking as I did in another thread where I gave reasons for voting for Obama and they were simply based on the issue that Obama was BLACK and nothing else..... And again no one I personally asked gave me reason as to why they were not voting for Obama.... Obama was not my pick, as in the beginning I was supporting John Edwards as his policies on healthcare, women rights, social security and taxes where more agreeable with me... After Edwards was out of the race, I leaned my support to Hilliary Clinton and it was a personal reason only and had nothing to do with policy.... Senator Clinton did a personal favor for me that really gained my respect and showed me that she was a true woman of character and integrity..... Now when Obama was elected the Democrat nominee; all of my policies and political views went out the window and I voted for that brother because I thought about many "blacks" who died only hoping to see this day............ and I gave Obama 1000% support! |
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Post by Jasmine on Nov 11, 2008 1:58:28 GMT -5
I was Obama, All day everyday...Not once did I consider McCain.
I have specific reasons for not voting McCain, such as...he's a liar.
He lied about his family not owning slaves. Why lie..It's documented.
He voted against making MLK B-DAY a state holiday in AZ, on NUMEROUS occasions.
He's was not stable or firm, on any one issue... Should the confederate flag, be swung across the court house in S.C.? He voted, It should...then he went back to S.C. to apologize "because he was running for president" saying that he should have voted against the confederate flag.
Oof course there were other issues, but those were the main reasons that kept me from voting for John McCain....and then there was Sarah Palin.
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 11, 2008 12:25:38 GMT -5
There were a few statements that have been made that would definitely make me side with ASWSOY regarding one's vote note being for Obama or not being for a Democrat. Many thing I have noticed have always been very "anti-republican" and from what I recall (please tell me if I'm wrong) there usually nothing that is "anti-democratic" on the same level. There were some things that were said that would definitely put ppl on the defensive in choosing to share their views which I've listed below. The "Answer" portion isn't perse an answer to the question but moreso a response to how this could be viewed and create a lack of a good discussion...
1. Has anybody noticed how although democrates don't make it a point of go after gays... They make less progress under democratic leadership than republicans? Could that again be the fact that in a lot of cases the republicans milk that issue to keep the Christian vote... along with the idea that one can't vote Christian values and democratic at the same time...
Answer: republicans for the most part aren't going AFTER gays. However, when asked their viewpoints, there is an answer that they have indicated.
2. (paraphrased) Sarah Palin "_____________________"
Answer: One thing that you learn about the media is that there are times that they exagerrate the truth. Additionally, ppl can make mistakes and once again, as a Poli Sci major, the president never makes a decision and that's just the way it is. As a matter of fact, that's why they have advisors. That's why we have a House/Senate to make sure that one person doesn't have all the power. So is it possible to make mistakes? Yes. Do I see those mistakes as something that will be costly to me? No. Anyone could be a terrorist. Anyone could be a spy. Many of us don't really even know the ppl that we are sitting next to in church..... Why can't a husband follow his wife because they are ONE? If i were a politician, I'd want my husband with me...wouldn't you? (general question not specific)
3. Like I have stated many times before... I noticed that oddly the gays seem to make the most advancements under republican leadership. How odd that as soon as the democrats get in office...the same people who are voting democrat are also still able to vote against gay marriage etc...
Answer: This is a very blanket/stereotypic type statement. Two assumptions are being made in that statement. 1) Advancement of gays = republican leadership. and 2) Voting democrats = No to gay marriage. This would also mean then, if I take those two assumptions from above that: 1) No advancement of gays = democratic leadership. and 2) Voting republican = Yes to gay marriage (this of course is based on some particular words in #3 being "odd that as soon as" as well as "Are also still able to"
4. But honestly... again I want to suggest that the republicans may have used the gay issue to keep the Christian vote
Answer: Here one is "suggesting" that what keeps ppl voting republican is that issue and that really isn't true. Even for the huge churches that may talk specifically about that (I believe mainly your caucasian churches), they also have OTHER issues as well that is discussed. NOT just those 2 issues. Not to mention the fact that there is still a Democrat majority in both the house and Senate would indicate that "gay/abortion" issues isn't keeping the Christian vote.
5. Oh yeah... honestly I would like to know as well... besides abortion and gays...are there other reasons that people voted republican?
Answer: This could be viewed to be very demeaning or even condescending by which one would doubt that there is any other reason. The reason I say that is because I know that I specifically have responded to reasons of voting republican and have never (at least not to my knowledge) mentioned either Abortion or homosexuality.
6. So even statements like:
This could've been taken in a way to start a conversation...however, when followed by:
It kind of puts those that would respond in defensive mode which is never the best way of answer a question or even starting a conversation. I know for me, honestly, I spend more time defending what is said than really having a detailed discussion between the differences in the parties and/or my what I like about the republican party. (although I have been able to put a few things out for others to read). I don't believe that the republicans make us poor. However, I think that the fact that we have so many government programs doesn't help us learn the importance of working to make a living (you don't work you don't eat) and having lived in Philly in the "hood" I see the issues that these government programs which were designed to help has hurt a lot of those in the hood and has had an adverse effect/affect on our black men
Last, but not least GIANTS really had a good point. The person that is there is there because that's who God chose to be there. Why? We may never know. But like I said in another thread, our role is to pray for whoever is there and that's what I plan on doing.
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Post by Jasmine on Nov 11, 2008 14:13:12 GMT -5
Are those comments even made on this board? @ Nikkol, or this thread for that matter?
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Post by livinganewlife on Nov 11, 2008 14:16:44 GMT -5
Nikkol, I tend to agree with you especially about the so called "social" programs that are in place to assist the poor… However one must realize that the poor doesn’t necessarily mean blacks as blacks are only 12% of the USA population and that the largest recipients of welfare (government issued assistance) are Caucasians…..let’s keep that in perspective too…. However as a people who have advanced thus far, in my mind as an African American person I cannot logically see why anyone would vote McCain / Palin over Barack Obama….even if Barack was white I would still vote for him over McCain / Palin….now on the other side if John McCain had selected a more qualified running mate (i.e. Lieberman, Mitt Romney, Condoleezza Rice) than he would have gotten my vote… (but that's just my opinion) Even though Republicans believe in small government and people pulling themselves up by their own boot straps; we as a people cannot forget to help those who are less fortunate and we know the churches are not doing their part therefore forcing the government to step in to assist the needy….. The voting process can be difficult and I am swayed to vote for whatever party the Lord allows......which is why I am registered as an Independent meaning I am not affiliated with any party I am only affiliated with JESUS.....  |
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Post by kitty on Nov 11, 2008 14:31:16 GMT -5
Hey Nikkol,
Those are my statements and I don't back off of them one bit...
I whole heartedly believe what I am stating is true... The republican party has milked the abortion and gay issue for years without any success in either area plus YES it is most definitely true... Gay have made more progress under republican leadership.
It is indeed a fact that they have milked these two issues for years in order to get the Christian vote.
Now regardless of what the laws are I have personally sat through a sermon at my own Black church in which the guest speaker who is also Black, also well known, has been on TBN serveral times... Gave a 2 hour sermon connecting people's personal wealth and income to going against God and leaning toward voting Obama... I was especially disheartened because the majority of people in my church are indeed struggling and poor and uneducated.
Another church that I attend regularly for bible study... An Calvary church in Philadelphia which is majority white gave out pamplets which didn't directly pick a canadiate. But gave a outline of what the important issues for Christians voting to be based on... a very limited list... of the 5 items... 3 were abortion, the war, and gay marriage. Guess who those the people reading the pamplet would have been lead to vote for?
And although it has been a little quiet during this election... Plenty of times on this board and prior on JBM. There have been many discussions that have declared that spiritually there is just no way to vote democratic....
And I too have been attacked for being democratic on this very board just as you and "And Such" may have felt uncomfortable by my pro-democratic stance...
There were certain members that had choice words for me over the Alan Keyes election when he tried to move from Maryland to Illinois to go against Obama running for senator. And the part of about the whole incident that was especially sicken for me was that Alan Keyes was especially chosen to go up against Obama as the republican canadiate because he was Black. Alan Keyes also tried to come at Blacks in the city of Chicago as Christians stating that they were going against God... Unfornately he didn't realize that the South Side of Chicago is full of Rev. Jerem Wright preachers but that's another story...
Soooo.... With all that stated... Nikkol and And Such... my goal in having this discussion isn't about picking on people... I can truly understand if voting republican is a personal choice... But I am about sick of hearing it made as a spiritual choice as if God is republican or democrate...
I apologize if you both felt that I am especially picking on you. I just happen to feel very strongly about this issue...
Kitty
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Post by kitty on Nov 11, 2008 14:42:16 GMT -5
Nikkol,
For the record... If you go back to the post about the bail out in the Current Events section... I think it was called,"US reeling from Economic Fall out" I personally reached out to you and told you that I respected you and your opinion about how voting from Obama may not be the best thing for you to do...
Did you by chance read that post?
Kitty
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Post by vin on Nov 11, 2008 14:53:20 GMT -5
Repubicans have been pimping the Christian vote for years with "family values" issues. They had sense enough to know that a large part of the Christian vote was actually the BLack vote. They ain't stupid. Then get into office and have a field day. But then THEY started getting caught playing with boys and mistresses. I guess even God got tired of that mess.
I agree with Palosi. "the party's over"
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Post by kitty on Nov 11, 2008 14:57:14 GMT -5
And Such...
There isn't very much for me to say in regards to you...
You personally made the statement that you wouldn't vote for Obama because he "didn't get it" but then decided that you didn't want to say what it was that he "didn't" get... You have every right to decide that you didn't want to discuss that issue any futher but to imply that people are attacking you oppose you not feeling as if you could defend or support your statements isn't fair.... And that is what I think you do.
And that's not the first time that you have done that...
I personally have butted heads with you before... Let me just make this clear... If I make a statement I fully am able to back up my statement with some form of facts... I don't get upset if someone disagrees with me... Especially if they explain their point of view...
You seems to be upset if people do either... disagree with you... Or ask you to justify your statements... I think you may even be more upset when people are able to justfy their own opposing views...
If you happen to be uncomfortable with any discussion where you may be asked to back up your opposing view... Or someone is able to defend their's then just admit that and move forward... Also at least acknowledge to yourself that it will most likely occur in any topic... Not just religion, gays, and other people's experience with hearing from God.
Kitty
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 11, 2008 15:02:17 GMT -5
Are those comments even made on this board? @ Nikkol, or this thread for that matter? all on this particular thread |
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