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Post by Jasmine on Nov 14, 2008 1:10:43 GMT -5
www.blackvoices.com/blogs/2008/11/12/obama-the-need-to-separate-church-and-state/#contThis is a quote from Pres. Elect Obama "Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translates their concerns into universal rather than religion-specific values. What do I mean by this? It requires that their proposals be subject to argument and amenable to reason" "I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, to take one example, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I can't simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all. Now this is going to be difficult for some who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible as many evangelicals do. But in a pluralistic society, we have no choice." It was Obama's thinking when it came to issues like this that drew me to him in the first place. We've got to understand that even God did not arbitrarily declare things sin or place restrictions on them. When we as Christians reach this point, we will have truly matured in our faith. This was my same assessment. I watched countless youtube videos where christians declared that we should not vote for obama for this very reason. It provoked me to make my own video (which i failed to post on youtube)..however it's what I now hold to be. As a Christian, my personal belief, and conviction will not allow me to abort any child, however as a christian woman do I want that "right" of choice to be taken away from all women, even when who do not believe as I do. Just as it is as much of our right to be free to speak, and free to disclose, it should be within a woman's right to make a choice, because its her right to do so. Does it make her decision right. Nope, maybe to her, but because of my personal belief, and conviction..its wrong..... but who has to live with that decision made...not me. Who has to answer to that decision made...not me. |
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Post by anointedteacher on Nov 14, 2008 12:11:23 GMT -5
^I can respect your position on abortion being a deal-breaker, I really can. I'm pro-life as well. But I tend to think about the subject in realistic terms instead of idealistic. We've had 8 years of a Republican administration and for 6 of those years, the Republicans controlled Congress if I remember correctly. And abortion is still here. I think it's a real uphill battle to get it abolished, but I do hope it does. The truth is ...most Republicans are Pro-Choice, but carry the Pro-Life banners to keep the Christian's votes.... Deception.... How many Christians have been deceived, by thinking they were voting against abortion and gay marriage, when actually voting for it or it don't make a different.  .... That why we must be led by the Holy Spirit and vote according to His Will and not what we think is right or our conviction. What can be really damaging to the Christian Faith... is when a candidate carry the I am a Christian, Pro-life and Anti-Gay Banner, but act like a jerk with bags of issues, "Palin".... McCain never say he is a born again Christian, although ppl try to get him to confessed .... He dance around the question when he was asked. He let ppl assume... just to keep the Christian's votes... But his running who confessed... but her character was messed up.... I praise God they didn't win... We would have lose respect around the world... Not because of McCain.. he was well resected, but his former running mate. Please somebody.... Tell Palin to go home to her small town In Alaska where all the real American live... and make her favorite moose berger. My question is, again ... knowing the issue with Gov. Palin... McCain is 72 years old and have suffered from cancer more than one time... which would have made Palin an heart beat from being president, which would have put this country in danger... WHY? Why over look her issues over Obama? ... |
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Post by kitty on Nov 14, 2008 13:21:23 GMT -5
Hey Guys,
I too understand those who want to vote republican when it comes to issues like abortion. But I really don't think they have a real chance to over turn it because there are too many people in the U.S. who are prochoice... Not to mention that some of those people are Christian.
By the way... all of the speeches that I have heard of Obama, state that he is a Christian. I have never heard any statement that he made saying that there are more than one way to get to heaven...
Lastly... I personally don't have a problem voting democratic because I too feel that when I do I am following what the bible states.
Many people forget that there is no exact scriptures that talk about abortion... The word abortion is not in the bible...
But the scripture that most are basing their belief on is the scripture that states that we should not shed any innocent blood....
Now I perfectly agree that would cover the unborn. But what I don't exactly understand is how people seem to think that it doesn't also cover those who have already had a birthday? Thus I don't think the republican party is honoring that scripture with this fake war anymore than i think the democratic party does with being prochoice. I find most young people to be in the military innocent young kids tricked into a system when they most were too POOR to find another way to college... So on top of not up holding that scripture I find the republicans especially Bush to be murders just as well. I also find that some of their policys may indrectly promote abortion because many young women or poor family may find themselves in desperate situations where they can't afford to have another child.
And as Krazeboi stated... The republicans haven't got rid of abortion nor gay marriage... Why would they? If they did then Christians may require more of them... Because quite naturally then the focus would go to the poor and underclass...
Lastly... We all pay taxes... The bible states that we are to pay what we owe. It also states that we are to take care of the poor... So if we as Christians are voting according to our Christian values... Then why wouldn't we want our governement to take care of our poor, sick and underclass?
Most churches can't take care of the poor and sick within their own congregations... Why on earth would we expect for them to then take on all of the poor of the U.S.? Heck let's just be honest... That not even a goal for most churches!!! Too many are still asking more money for the that building fund of large property that they can't afford!
Kitty
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Post by Nikkol on Nov 14, 2008 14:35:52 GMT -5
You can find it in the article in NEWSWEEK by which it does appear on page 4 that he does give the impression that he would moreso follow the "Carlton Pearson" line of thought. The major difference about trying to compare abortion with the war is that we understand that we should not kill (which I believe is specifically talking about murder). However, all throughout the OT specifically, they went to war quite a bit.... between having to go an kill the Amalekites, Canaanites, etc. David was a man of war. Urriah was in the midst of fighting in a war. Many kids in discussing going into the army/military go so they can get money (which isn't bad) and go to school for free. That is NOT the main purpose of going into the army. Most take a gamble and if you talk to them, many would say that they thought that they'd be out before they'd have to go to war, etc. (there are a few that actually do sign up becuase they want to protect the country, etc) For those that may be "too poor", one can usually get grants and the grants they receive should be able to cover being able to at least go to a community college. The key is too send in your info early because when I was a financial aid counselor, the earlier you got your ppwk in, the more money that was available. And of course there are loans and for Community college, the amount of loans that one can take should for the most part be able to pay for your tuition. They can always transfer at a later time and look into the many scholarships that are available. But for many it's "Russian Roulette" for they want to be able to get the money (usually there isn't much you have to pay for while in the army....your room and board is taken care of) but not have to get involved in what the MAIN PURPOSE of going to the army/navy/military. ?? What about adoption? There are many families that are looking to have a baby and can't. But for abortion to be another "family planning option" like contraception, that to me seems like we have a bigger issue. (Of course, there are those who aren't married and of course therefore shouldn't be engaging in that activity anyways.) I don't know if most would just say "forget the poor". Moreso, I would say that the main purpose of ppl being helped has changed. I believe that there was a time when some ppl fell onto hard times by which a job was lost, one got ill, etc and they received assistance. Nowadays, ppl just aren't working. Some have never worked, they teach their kids how to "milk the system".... something that was suppose to be a crutch.....ie not suppose to last forever.... has become neverending for many by which they know nothing but that. In some of our communities, it has really hurt the ppl and when you talk to them, that there is a better way they look at you like you're stupid and with a "why would I want to do that" look..... yet those same ppl get mad if another "nationality" starts taking all the cleaning and what some call the "low class" jobs...... (different topic) I do believe a lot of issues occurred when we (general) started to live above our means....wanting the latest fashions/cars/houses. Even when looking at the high foreclosure rates. Some of these ppl knew that they wouldn't be able to afford it but just thought they could just "refinance"...but doing that on bad credit won't work. What would also have helped is if the ppl in certain areas all went to the same church. There would be a greater sense of community and so if we chose to do as they did in scripture and give everything so that we have everything in common, it would work more effectively. And that goes beyond just the ppl but the churches wanting to live above their means....wanting the latest "X".....it's definitely an epidemic. |
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.... That why we must be led by the Holy Spirit and vote according to His Will and not what we think is right or our conviction. 