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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 4, 2009 9:21:27 GMT -5
Gap, My post is a response to that... Because in a sense she is saying that she would have only gone by a prophetic word and signs and wonders.... Kitty, again I came back to clarify that I didn't mean signs and wonders and even gave examples of God speaking to us in the simplest matters..... Also GAP came behind me to further explain receiving a "Word or Confirmation" from God...... As I have stated on this BB I am not the one to "over spiritualize" marriage......that the Bible tells me to seek God and I seek Him....and when I seek Him I find Him and we commune together..... So no prophecies, wonders, and supernatural signs are not the only way to receive a Word from God.....one can simply open the Bible and read.... GAP wrote: All we mean that is that we believe that we should "acknowledge him in all his ways, and he will direct our path" and more importantly "trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to our own understanding"....
Sometimes is a gentle nudge, an open door, peace of mind, and just the presence of God with us that lets us know what our father desires of us and what is will is for us.
Be Blessed |
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Post by kitty on Jun 4, 2009 10:54:00 GMT -5
Hey Guys,
First I want to say that I think this is a good discussion... Secondly I want to say that I am enjoying an open and frank dialog with you guys... With this stated let me proceed futher...
Living... I'm not trying to take your words out of context. I apologize if that seems to be what I am doing... And again... I want to state that if someone received a prophetic word or dream from the Lord of what is His wil for their lives then that's ok.
The only thing that I am saying is that a prophetic word...be it in a dream, word from a pastor or sign of any kind...may not be the way that God works in others lives...
Now is the statement above something that everyone can agree on?
Kitty
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 4, 2009 11:06:46 GMT -5
The only thing that I am saying is that a prophetic word...be it in a dream, word from a pastor or sign of any kind...may not be the way that God works in others lives... Now is the statement above something that everyone can agree on? Kitty I am enjoying the thread too  In reference to the question I honestly can not bear witness with the above statement because as Saints of God all we have is His Word....now the delivery of the Word may come in different Forms but as a Christian as my reference and and as the guide for my life it is the Word of God....and anything other than God's Word (spirit) is not relevant to my walk as a child of God..... I can understand God not working that way in the life of an unbeliever but a believer should always be in communication with God and if you are communicating you will receive a Word from the Lord.... |
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Post by nina2 on Jun 4, 2009 11:39:51 GMT -5
I am not sure about that.... dating >> The process whereby a man and woman meet, become acquainted with each other. courtship >> The focus of a courtship is to determine whether this person one is seeing has the qualities and values which will allow the two of them to live together harmoniously and happily for the rest of their lives. Hence, successful courtship is an art; it requires the mind to take control of a domain which traditionally and instinctively belongs to the heart. engagement >> The engagement is actually what we used to call marriage proposal.... With the engagement, and the giving of the ring, the woman becomes a married woman, permitted to no other man... The Jewish word means "sanctification" because they are "set aside" from that point on, the engagement creates a bond, a contract between the man and the woman. However, the bride and groom are not permitted to live together.... wedding >> The finalizing step: the man and the woman become one, under God, and can now live under the same roof and be physically intimate. That's the order, and the short version of the purpose of each step. And, really, the wedding is not the most important one. The wedding only finalizes what came before it. I really love what Giants said previously : |
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Jun 4, 2009 12:28:28 GMT -5
i will be back this evening to share, can't really do anything but read right now.....
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Post by kitty on Jun 4, 2009 15:22:07 GMT -5
Hey Guys,
First... I would like to state this... While I have been doing my project of Successful Black Marriages some of the most stable marriages of Christian that I have found is among some older saints. But I have also found that among those older saints... they met and got married what is considered the old fashioned way...
They met each other.... maybe in church, at work, at college... The man pursued the woman and a relationship with the right intentions... Meaning that he was stepping to her with the purpose of looking for a wife. He met her family, she met his they went on "dates" as a part of their courtship. They may have introducted one another to their pastors... and if they found that have the same views on life, were in love, were compatible then they got married.
I have found that they prayers of most women back then were basically along the lines of God, "Please send me a husband...." Or God please send me a good man to marry. Most of them don't have testimonies about receiving a word from God about who to marry or a confirmation that this is a person that they should marry. But it is clear that their marriages are put together by God because they have with stood the test of time. They are still happily married... married 30-40 plus years...
So we at the point where we want to declare that because these people had basic prayers of God please send me a good person to marry... but never recieved a confirmation... that their happy, successful marriages aren't of God?
Kitty
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Post by livinganewlife on Jun 4, 2009 15:42:05 GMT -5
Hey Guys, First... I would like to state this... While I have been doing my project of Successful Black Marriages some of the most stable marriages of Christian that I have found is among some older saints. But I have also found that among those older saints... they met and got married what is considered the old fashioned way... They met each other.... maybe in church, at work, at college... The man pursued the woman and a relationship with the right intentions... Meaning that he was stepping to her with the purpose of looking for a wife. He met her family, she met his they went on "dates" as a part of their courtship. They may have introducted one another to their pastors... and if they found that have the same views on life, were in love, were compatible then they got married. I have found that they prayers of most women back then were basically along the lines of God, "Please send me a husband...." Or God please send me a good man to marry. Most of them don't have testimonies about receiving a word from God about who to marry or a confirmation that this is a person that they should marry. But it is clear that their marriages are put together by God because they have with stood the test of time. They are still happily married... married 30-40 plus years... So we at the point where we want to declare that because these people had basic prayers of God please send me a good person to marry... but never recieved a confirmation... that their happy, successful marriages aren't of God? Kitty The point that's missing here is that the women prayed and God sent them a man with the right intentions with no game playing....so the man had purposed in his heart prior to meeting this woman that he desired a wife...... I think in most cases, just generally speaking we (women) get caught up in searching, praying and seeking trying to determine if Junebug is my husband when he didn't step to you the right way to begin with..... Also, we have to consider that our culture has evolved but the basics still remain the same...... |
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Post by giantsdodie on Jun 5, 2009 8:39:44 GMT -5
Hey Guys, First... I would like to state this... While I have been doing my project of Successful Black Marriages some of the most stable marriages of Christian that I have found is among some older saints. But I have also found that among those older saints... they met and got married what is considered the old fashioned way... They met each other.... maybe in church, at work, at college... The man pursued the woman and a relationship with the right intentions... Meaning that he was stepping to her with the purpose of looking for a wife. He met her family, she met his they went on "dates" as a part of their courtship. They may have introducted one another to their pastors... and if they found that have the same views on life, were in love, were compatible then they got married. I have found that they prayers of most women back then were basically along the lines of God, "Please send me a husband...." Or God please send me a good man to marry. Most of them don't have testimonies about receiving a word from God about who to marry or a confirmation that this is a person that they should marry. But it is clear that their marriages are put together by God because they have with stood the test of time. They are still happily married... married 30-40 plus years... So we at the point where we want to declare that because these people had basic prayers of God please send me a good person to marry... but never recieved a confirmation... that their happy, successful marriages aren't of God? Kitty I would like to address the whole... Word from the Lord issue... The NORMAL state of being of the Children of GOD should be hearing from the Lord. We arent talking prophecy, word of wisdom or words of knowledge from God through another individual to you, although that certainly does happen and is a part of our christian experience. We are talking about the conversations in the prayer closet between YOU and GOD... The problem with us is that most of our conversation is ONE sided... We do all the talking, but none of the listening. When I look in the Word I see a God who walked and talked with Adam in the cool of the day.. I see a man called Enoch who walked with GOD until God just took him straight to heaven. No death. I see a man called David who CONSTANTLY enquired of the Lord as to what he should do ( and the two times he didnt he got in a LOT of trouble ). I see a man called JESUS who was in constant fellowship with His Father. I see a man called Paul qho had a constitent life of fellowship and prayer... The scripture tells us my sheep KNOW my voice.. Well God MUST be speaking to have a voice. The sctipture says thosethat are led by the Spirit of GOD are called the sons of GOD. The bIble says in Hebrews that today He SPEAKS to us buy His dear son... SO what does that tell me? That tells me that GOD can and will Speak until His people. God speaking should be as normal in our lives and you and I speaking to others we speak to every day. We SHOULD be seeking God's views on the matter.. We SHOULD be seeking confirmation because yes there are saints who did it " the old fashioned way " and made it.. and among those I would venture to say that among those lets say hundreds who made it.. there were THOUSANDS who didnt... Look at the divorce rate in the church.. ridiculous.. Look at the divorce rate among the leadership... shameful.... So imo YES we should be seeking God.. Before.. during and after !!!! Ill say it again.. without a vision the people perish.. you NEED a vision from GOD for your marriage.. not a vision of WHO to marry... And I believe thats the problem... we focus so much on the WHO of marriage and the WHEN of marriage... that we dont ask the WHY.. and the WHY is the MOST important question. |
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Post by giantsdodie on Jun 5, 2009 8:47:39 GMT -5
Also I believe we have a limited understanding of what " direction " means..
The majority of Christendom my direction means this...
Lord I am going to do this but if I am going in the wrong direction or doing the wrong thing then you left me know Ok Lord??? We call this acknowledgement.. which simply means.. I let the Lord know what I was doing.. not.. I sought the Lord for HIS WILL.... no.. I am informing God of my intentions... Then we take a position where God is supposed to be the cosmic fixer upper and let me know if I am doing something wrong along the way....
Oh yeah and because we havent developed an ear to hear God correctly we look for signs and wonders along the way instead of hearing his voice..
But lets look in the natural. When I am driving my care and I get lost I STOP where I am going and seek DIRECTION to get where I need to go and then someone TELLS me the directions and then I FOLLOW them....
But we dont do that.. We keep RIGHT ON GOING in the wrong direction and expecting GOD to correct us along the way...
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Jun 5, 2009 12:15:05 GMT -5
the last two posts remind me of verse in ecclesiastes "now let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter"
TEACH TEACHA!!!!
MY GOD WHAT A WORD!!!!!
Giants, I thank God for your ministry on this board
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Post by And Such Were Some Of You on Jun 5, 2009 14:13:03 GMT -5
the last two posts remind me of verse in ecclesiastes "now let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter" TEACH TEACHA!!!! MY GOD WHAT A WORD!!!!! Giants, I thank God for your ministry on this board I "ditto' that! I agree with everything he has written thus far except my belief is courtship, engagement then marriage instead of engagement, courtship then marriage. But "dating" is definitely OUT of the picture. Well, you can date during the engagement period (but of course we remain sexually pure until marriage). |
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on Jun 6, 2009 7:00:18 GMT -5
Kitty I came back to add that we care an awful lot about you. Our comments are not meant as an attack, but rather our experiences have taught us that when heartbreaking disasters occur in life, like in yours with the first two guys you mention, and you feel that 'for me God just doesn't work like that' the answer isn't to 'not seek God in that way anymore but rather look for God to work in my circumstances.' We have learned that the answer is to draw closer to God, close enough so that we can hear his voice, know his choice, and proceed from there. In short, there is nothing wrong with seeking God in our circumstances for direction, but I believe that the ultimate way to seek him is to learn to hear and know his voice thorugh the trials and errors of life. Not only a prophetic word spoken through a prophet, preacher, or friend, but the ultimate of knowing his voice as he speaks in that still calm voice to hearts.
Much love,
Gap/Pat
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Post by kitty on Jun 6, 2009 12:41:21 GMT -5
Hey Gap,
You and the people on this are really my Christian brothers and sisters... I do really enjoy fellowshiping and having these discussions with you and everyone else on this board.
I know we aren't going to always agree... I am ok with that... I know that at times I can come off very opinionated and it may at times rub people the wrong way... I apologize for that too....
But the bottom line is this... we are all saints who goal is to follow the Lord our Savior so everyone's view point is needed... This is a way we learn and get balance...
Gap... I don't feel that you or anyone else is picking on me... Love you for wanting to becareful because I know that you know more about my personal business since we do associate off the board. But honestly I think I have talked with many people in person too including Giants and Nikkol....
So Guys.... There will be no punches pulled here... if you can't say amen then say Ouch! LOL
I want us to have a frank discussion in which we may disagree but not let lines of communication break down to the point that an honest discussion isn't possible because there is too much offense... and with that stated... let me add some more to this discussion in my next post....
God Bless,
Kitty
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Post by kitty on Jun 6, 2009 13:28:00 GMT -5
Hey Giants,
I am not at all in disagreement with your posts.... I do believe that most of us Christians are not seeking the Lord enough. Many of us do have a problem hearing Him. But I think it goes a lot deeper than what most of us discuss on a daily basis.
In most cases when a person is "receiving" they are either hearing God, themselves/ hearts desire or the devil... I think a lot of people go with their hearts desire and then call it God. They say they have a peace the supasses all understanding but it may be more of their own peace that they have a certain desire.
In my life I can say that I have only truly experienced God's peace to goes beyond all understanding 2 different times. The amazing thing was that it wasn't something I was expecting. But because I have experienced I know know for sure what God's peace is...
My goal and desire is to follow God. Period.
In all other areas in my life I don't seem to have a problem seeking, hearing or receiving directions or confimations from God....
But for whatever reason... this has not been the case when it comes to marriage.
Everything else I have ever received was either true or came to pass... I don't currently have any understanding why what I "received" in regards to marriage was untrue or didn't come to pass...
Many things could be argued... That I didn't hear God. That maybe I need to seek Him more, that there was an issue of free will, that maybe there were things that I should have done but didn't.
But there is one thing that I am clear on... and it's something that I think a lot of people shy away from. The attack of the devil... I do believe... especially due to the great degree of "supernatural elements" involved that in my case and in the case of many other saints that what we are expereincing is "spiritual deception" "Lying spirits". And I have no shame in admitting that at this particular point in time with my walk with God I don't have the spiritual discernment needed to know the difference....
I also do believe that God ALLOWED me to have these experiences because He wanted me to KNOW that lying spirits, the occult, those that practice divination, and deception IS REAL. Because i certainly prayed about hearing from Him correctly after my first experience.
I'm pretty tight in the other areas of my life so this is the way that the devil came at me.
But from the stories I see going around I'm clear that I'm not alone... I'm just sane enough to take what I received and still hold it up to the bible.... If didn't come to pass then 9 out 10 times it just wasn't God... Well if it wasn't a desire of my heart then...there only one other conclusion. Som eother fols are still waiting on a lie to pass... some waiting for wives to die or for spouses to get a divorce... Some are missing the real deal because they believe God said that their spouse was going to have green eyes. Oh I believe the devil has a field day on us with this stuff. But not with me any longer... This was the best way for me to shut that door.
So Giants yes... many people who did it the whole fashioned way ended up in divorce...
BUT>>>> So has a lot of other saints WHO DECLARED>>> That they had confirmations from God on who to marry... I think that would even includee our most famous beloved Juanite bynum... who as now added to spiritual confusion by making women believe that they need to birth a husband out! LOL
Kitty
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Post by nina2 on Jun 8, 2009 7:22:40 GMT -5
I honestly think that many also choose to ignore some "signs" or "signals", and try to justify it afterward and make it "fit" scriptures etc... They jump into it, all sirens blaring, all red flags up, warnings as loud as can be, all signs more than valid that they are headed the wrong way but, somehow, keep going.... and wake up in the middle of a hell they created of their own hands.
I believe that no matter what, we also have all been given common sense, and for the sake of being "spiritual" some ignore even that. Did we/Do we make mistakes? Yes, we did and we do.... Some things we have to learn by trials and errors, some others, we don't want to learn by trials and errors, and should not have to. The truth though is that (Giants, don't jump on me for this one!) nothing is 100% certain down here.... Life does happen, and not always the way we want it to. It's not a reason to see everything in black and become pessimistic or bitter.
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