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Post by Nikkol on Apr 27, 2010 7:02:43 GMT -5
I would say that some traditions can hinder the word of God vs traditions hinder the word of God. (just a slight difference; but makes a great impact).
II Thess 3:1-11 (vs 6 -- other verses given for context)
1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course , and be glorified , even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; 8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: 9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work , neither should he eat . 11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies
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Post by stillfocused on May 18, 2010 20:52:48 GMT -5
Traditions bring no life..because the working of the Holy Spirit is not allowed to work in the life of the people.
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Post by stillfocused on May 18, 2010 20:55:24 GMT -5
What does the word Tradition in the above scripture really? I have found out that in our English language is means something totally different from the way it's being used in the scriptures..
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Post by Nikkol on May 19, 2010 6:48:57 GMT -5
Definition according to Strongs:
Definition
giving up, giving over
the act of giving up
the surrender of cities
a giving over which is done by word of mouth or in writing, i.e. tradition by instruction, narrative, precept, etc.
objectively, that which is delivered, the substance of a teaching
of the body of precepts, esp. ritual, which in the opinion of the later Jews were orally delivered by Moses and orally transmitted in unbroken succession to subsequent generations, which precepts, both illustrating and expanding the written law, as they did were to be obeyed with equal reverence
Not sure exactly why tradition would mean not bringing life... I think that's somewhat "harsh" (not that you're being mean or anything like that...but moreso the wording choice). In other words, although that can apply to some traditions, I don't think we should make the blanket statement that would put ALL traditions in the same boat....
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Post by Poetricia (G.A.P.) on May 19, 2010 10:54:48 GMT -5
The Danger With Traditions
(Matthew 15:1-9)
INTRODUCTION
1. As Jesus went about preaching and teaching, He often ran afoul of the religious leaders over the matter of keeping traditions...
a. E.g., plucking heads of grain on the Sabbath - Mt 12:1-8
b. E.g., healing on the Sabbath - Mt 12:9-14
c. E.g., eating with unwashed hands - Mt 15:1-9
2. In Mt 15:1-9, Jesus describes the danger of traditions at length...
a. How keeping them can make void the very commands of God
b. How keeping them can make our worship vain before God
3. Traditions are very important in some religions...
a. In the Roman Catholic church, tradition is place on par with
God's Word
1) "It is an article of faith from a decree of the Vatican
Council that Tradition is a source of theological teaching
distinct from Scripture, and that it is infallible. It is
therefore to be received with the same internal assent of
Scripture, for it is the word of God." - Catholic Dictionary,
p. 41-42
2) "Do you have to believe in Tradition? Yes, because it is the
Word of God and has equal authority with the Bible."
- Catholic Catechism For Adults, p. 11
b. Just about every Protestant church has its own traditions
1) It is often the accepted traditions that distinguish between
the denominations
2) To be a member of a particular denomination, one must
accept its traditions
4. In this study, we will address the following questions...
a. What are traditions?
b. Are traditions always wrong?
c. If not, when does a tradition become sinful?
[Let's begin with...]
I. THE MEANING OF TRADITION
A. THE WORD ITSELF...
1. The Greek word is "paradosis", which means "giving over"
or "handing down"
2. It refers to teaching that is handed down either by word
(orally) or in writing
B. AS UNDERSTOOD BY THE JEWS...
1. It was often applied to the oral teachings of the elders
(distinguished elders from Moses on down)
2. These traditions were often divided into three classes...
a. Some oral laws supposedly given by Moses in addition to
the written laws
b. Decisions of various judges which became precedents in
judicial matters
c. Interpretations of highly respected rabbis which were held
in reverence along with the OT scriptures
-- Article on "Tradition", ISBE
3. Prior to his conversion, Paul was a staunch supporter of
Jewish tradition - Ga 1:13-14
C. AS UNDERSTOOD BY ROMAN AND GREEK CATHOLICS...
1. Their views appear to be parallel to that of the Jews
2. What they consider "Tradition" is what they believe to be
the teachings:
a. Of Jesus or the apostles, persevered orally rather than
through writing
b. Of various councils which have left various decrees
c. Of various church leaders (such as the pope) considered
to be inspired with later revelations from God
3. Of course, one is expected to take their word for it that
these "traditions" were truly from God and have been
faithfully transmitted
D. AS FOUND IN THE SCRIPTURES...
1. The word "tradition" as such is not found in the Old
Testament
2. It is found thirteen times in New Testament
a. Three times it refers to "apostolic teaching"
1) That which had been delivered by the apostles - 1Cor
11:2
2) Whether by word (in person) or epistle - 2Th 2:15
3) Which Christians were expected to keep - 2Th 3:6
b. Ten times it refers to "the tradition of the elders" or
"the traditions of men"
1) As in our text and parallel passages - Mt 15:2-6; Mk 7:
3-13
2) Of which Paul warned the Colossians - Col 2:8
3) From which Jewish Christians had been delivered
(including Paul) - 1Pe 1:18; Ga 1:14
3. Jesus did not feel bound to abide by "the traditions of the
elders"
a. Some traditions He had no problem keeping
1) Such as going to a wedding feast - Jn 2:1-2
2) Or attending the Feast Of Dedication - Jn 10:22-23
b. But He just as easily had no problem with violating other
traditions
1) Plucking grain or healing on the Sabbath
2) Eating with unwashed hands
c. Evidently Jesus did not subscribe to the view of
"traditions" handed down orally
1) He never appealed to the traditions of the elders
2) He either appealed to the authority of the written Word
(the Law of Moses), or to His own authority as the Son
of God
[Not all "traditions" are wrong. When they are teachings inspired of God, given and "written" by men approved of God, they are to be heeded. But when they are doctrines or interpretations handed down by uninspired men, then like the traditions of the Jews they are suspect.
As we return to our text (Mt 15:1-9), Jesus points out...]
II. THE DANGER OF TRADITIONS OF MEN
A. THEY CAN MAKE VOID THE WORD OF GOD...
1. Jesus gave the example of honoring one's parents - Mt
15:3-6
a. The tradition of the elders taught giving to the temple
freed one from giving to his or her parents
b. Thus rendering the command of God of no effect
2. There are traditions of men today with similar affect
a. Such as the practice of sprinkling for baptism, a tradition
of man
b. When one keeps the tradition of sprinkling, they make the
command of God to be baptized (immersed) of no effect!
3. Through keeping such traditions, one is actually rejecting
the command of God! - cf. Mk 7:8-9
B. THEY CAN LEAD TO VAIN WORSHIP...
1. When traditions of men are taught on the same level as the
commands of God, it leads to vain worship - Mt 15:9
2. Such worship may appear to be impressive, but it in actually
"empty, worthless"
a. First, because God did not command it
b. Second, because it does not accomplish the good we
really need - cf. Col 2:20-23
C. THEY CAN LEAD TO HYPOCRITICAL WORSHIP...
1. Traditions of men tend toward ritualism (just look at the
rituals found in many religions that have no scriptural basis)
2. Such ritualism is often done repeatedly, with little thought
as to its origin and purpose
3. It is easy to go through such rituals, with the heart and
mind on other things
4. Worship without the heart (or mind) of man is hypocritical
worship! - Mt 15:7-8
CONCLUSION
1. What are traditions?
a. They are simply teachings that have been handed down
b. In the case of inspired men (like the apostles) given in person
or through their writings, such traditions are good and to be
followed
2. In the case of oral transmissions, given through a chain of
uninspired men, traditions are at best suspect...
a. Jesus did not hold the "traditions" orally transmitted through
the Jews on par with God's written word
b. Neither should we hold "traditions" orally transmitted through
Christians on par with God's written word
3. At worst, traditions of men can be vain and deadly...
a. When their observance leads one to not keep a command of
God
b. When they are taught as doctrine, on par with God's word
c. When they lead to ritualism, done without engaging the
heart and mind of man
From Jesus' words, let us be aware of "The Danger With Traditions", and make sure that our faith and practice is based upon the written Word of God, not the interpretations and teachings of uninspired men!
From Executable Outlines, Copyright © Mark A. Copeland, 2009
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Post by krazeeboi on May 20, 2010 0:14:21 GMT -5
Traditions bring no life..because the working of the Holy Spirit is not allowed to work in the life of the people. The purpose of tradition is not to bring life; only the Holy Spirit can do that. Rather, tradition based on the Word of God helps to shape the identity of the Church, provides it with a witness to the world, and helps to establish a strong doctrinal foundation. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit can and does work through tradition that is based on the Word of God. It's interesting how the modern day church has given certain words exclusively bad meanings (e.g., tradition, religion) when, biblically speaking, they can have both positive and negative connotations, depending on context. |
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Post by anointedteacher on May 20, 2010 0:32:13 GMT -5
It also bring order
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Post by Nikkol on May 20, 2010 6:47:23 GMT -5
Traditions bring no life..because the working of the Holy Spirit is not allowed to work in the life of the people. The purpose of tradition is not to bring life; only the Holy Spirit can do that. Rather, tradition based on the Word of God helps to shape the identity of the Church, provides it with a witness to the world, and helps to establish a strong doctrinal foundation. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit can and does work through tradition that is based on the Word of God. It's interesting how the modern day church has given certain words exclusively bad meanings (e.g., tradition, religion) when, biblically speaking, they can have both positive and negative connotations, depending on context. I think that is because many ppl are trying to throw the baby out with the bath water. Now ppl get "emotional" when ppl say they're moving away from tradition/religion. Which is really I believe a way of saying that we're doing something "new" -- and for some is seen as being "deep" -- at the same time, when ppl say that what does it mean? At churches that I've visited, it tends to be linked with: 1)devotional team vs P&W team, -- we still have a devotional leader. 2) shouting/dancing (which I just recently found out that in the days of old, people danced under the unction of the HG vs the "1...2....3...go" and ppl start dancing 3)pants or no pants for females in church -- one of the biggest churches in Philly, Deliverance Evangelistic Church under Bishop Benjamin Smith didn't believe in women wearing pants in church at ALL -- they use to have a sign about it in the old building, yet ppl still came in droves......that was how it pretty much was -- not sure anymore under the new pastor though. I still remember the one time I wore pants to choir rehearsal -- noone said anything about it, but I NEVER did that again....LOL. 4) Head coverings for women vs not -- actually the "new tradition" I'm seeing moreso is men covering their heads in service under the "guise" (that may be the wrong word) of them being a bishop 5) Short services vs long services -- they usually say religion had many in church ALL day, but it doesn't take God all day to move.... These are just a FEW that come to my mind......this may need a separate thread -- but maybe not..... |
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Post by stillfocused on May 31, 2010 19:08:09 GMT -5
It's not about throwing out the bath water with baby. Alot of the things we focus on are the very traditions that make it very hard for many to live a "saved". I talk to people all the time who have walked out of the church as we know it because...of the no pants, wear a hat, and etc; if we were really to sit down and think about it for a while at some point you have to realize that you can't do all that is being required of you. For many the extent of their salvation is their church by-laws, and doctrines. I know some folk who can tell me more about their church doctrines than they can about Jesus. And honestly that scares me. I remember reading Matthew 23 one day and I had to repent because I had to come to realize how much much of what I did...resembled the same things the Pharisees did. Krazeeboi..I do realize and know that it is the Holy Spirit is the giver of life..yet, when the Holy Spirit is rejected the life within begins die. Many people don't see a need for the Holy Spirit. When what I do; what I drive; my church denomination gets in the way of what God wants to do..then to me it has become a tradition void of the involvement of the Holy Spirit. It's not about a new thing..because the word says there is nothing under the sun; shall overlook what Christ said what he said the tradition of men make the word of God of no effect?
I personally believe that there much be a greater study done on this topic..because many have opinions of what they believe, self included.
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Post by stillfocused on May 31, 2010 19:10:50 GMT -5
Nikkol..
I said tradition brings no life..because many are in the house every Sunday..doing and following the things they know....and dying from within. Sadly..
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Post by Nikkol on Jun 1, 2010 7:09:51 GMT -5
Nikkol.. I said tradition brings no life..because many are in the house every Sunday..doing and following the things they know....and dying from within. Sadly.. That's not because of tradition....that's due to a lack of a relationship...... I don't think pants/no pants are the reason ppl are walking out of church....that may be what ppl say....but if God is moving and that's where God has placed them, that shouldn't even be an issue..... Different ppl have different standards for that "part of the vineyard"...maybe there's a reason why they're doing it that way....and maybe they don't know the reason why because that's what God said....and truth be told, God probably tells all of us something at one time or another and we have NO IDEA why....nor do we always find out.... |
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Post by giantsdodie on Jun 1, 2010 8:58:07 GMT -5
I have been looking at this topic for a while but really havent felt led to comment until today.
The word" tradition" has become a dirty word in todays church as it has come to represent something that limits or hinders the move of GOD. While I have been to churches like this and have seen it personally I dont agree that this is always the case
A tradition makes the Word of God to no effect when the Spirit off GOD is not allowed to flow. The tradition ITSELF doesnt do this. MEN do this. There are traditions that are perfectly fine. My old church had comminion every first sunday like many churches do and many a first sunday the Spirit of God moved. We only had baptism once per year at our family retreat . That was the tradition of the church and it was a tremendous blessing once a year with everyone's family and friends gathered for baptism.
So traditions in and of themselves arent always bad. The issue is when we allow the rules and morays of men which are not necessarily GOD ordained to become more important that GOD Himself.
And here is the reality.. people feel COMFORTABLE with religiousity. Its much easier than a relationshiop. Religiousity (and I am not using the word RELIGION on purpose because TRUE religion is a GOOD thing) is comfortable because it creates a set of rules and as long as we follow these sets of rules, then in our mind we are OK with GOD.. or at the very least we arent as bad as other people so GOD should accept me...
The reality is that God isnt about religiousity. He is about RELATIONSHIP. But therein lies the rub. Relationship with GOD requires a lot more than many are willing to give. It requires you to die to self and accept HIS will as sovereign. It requires you to pick up your cross and follow Him. Bottom Line its costs YOU something.
Religiousity costs nothing because you wil never give more than you are willing to give.. and because its MAN made you will shift the line as you see fit.
Now one last thing about folks leaving church. Folks leave church for TWO reasons.. ONE because they WANT to leave church.. and TWO because God TOLD them to leave..
I am inclined to believe its a LOT more of the former than the latter.
People need to stop making excuses. And particluarly black folks. This is a ONE on ONE relationship with JESUS. Stop relying on your preacher to get you into heaven. The problem with the black community is that the church has always been a part of our community. Its where a lot of our health services started. Its where our kids went to day care. Its where we sent our kids during the summer so we could have time for ourselves. Its where we got our taxes done and wills written. Its where we ate our Sunday dinner. Its where we learned what was going on in the community around us. It was our political center. Its where we meet. Its where we network.
And for many that is the problem. It has become CULTURAL for many of us. Its a place to go to make us FEEL better about our lives or our week, but its not necessarily the place where an EXCHANGE is made between US and GOD..
And that is personal.. You have to want it.. Its not going to come through osmosis and One sermon a week and a bible study IF I can make it. Its going to come through your own PERSONAL study time in the Word of GOD, and your own personal PRAYER time AND dying to yourself and living to JESUS everyday.
And lets not even BEGIN to talk about our little PERSONAL traditions we hold dear to that make the Word of GOD to no effect in our personal lives. All out little thoughts, rathers, desires, influences, mindsets, belief systems, and strongholds that fight against the Word of GOD every single day...
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Post by krazeeboi on Jun 2, 2010 2:08:24 GMT -5
Giants, that was on time bruh, very much on time. And thanks for making the distinction between religion and religiousity. James said we should desire pure religion, so that word definitely has a place in our lives.
We need to understand that tradition and a free flow of the Holy Spirit can and do coexist harmoniously. I'm told that some of the most dynamic moves of God can be experienced in Episcopal communion/healing services which are richly laden with tradition.
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 10, 2010 21:26:26 GMT -5
Understandable..yet, Giants hit it on the head..Religiousity!! Yes, I do some have some traditions that I holds...each year I buy a new Christmas ornament..every different from the rest. Yet, that's something that I don't force on someone else. I do agree as well that is man who makes the decisons. I do remember that communion was served each month; now I hear comments like " We will only have communion when the Lord leads".
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Post by stillfocused on Jun 10, 2010 21:30:45 GMT -5
What I was saying had nothing to do with the wearing of pants and etc. and yes, it is the tradition of men that cause to many to fail because they can't stand to the many requirements that have been placed on them. Matthew 23 has some pretty interesting things to say regarding that.
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